AmberHawk
Active Member
I agree, it doesnt bother me one bit. This helps the refs, it helps the better teams who dont cheat.
Aslong as we keep it to goals and red cards am happy.
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They are called Referees
- Thread starter krackpot
- Start date
- Replies 3,195
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Aslong as we keep it to goals and red cards am happy.
AmberHawk
Active Member
I think its the same with some red card replays. They dont show it on the big screens because they dont want the refs to get more hate than they allready do from the fans.
IslingtonBornandbred
Active Member
I don't like it. I don't like the idea that people who don't like it are "dinosaurs" or "uneducated".
I don't like it as a semi-pro player, I don't like it as a spectator and I don't like it as a qualified referee, especially in its current format. It has to be more streamlined and faster. I don't want to go into detail about why I don't like it at the moment and I think those who say " I'm willing to wait as long as it takes for the correct decision" show a lack of true understand about the game. I think in its current format given a longer run, the majority of professional players would vote against it.
I don't like it as a semi-pro player, I don't like it as a spectator and I don't like it as a qualified referee, especially in its current format. It has to be more streamlined and faster. I don't want to go into detail about why I don't like it at the moment and I think those who say " I'm willing to wait as long as it takes for the correct decision" show a lack of true understand about the game. I think in its current format given a longer run, the majority of professional players would vote against it.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Well what is the way forward then. The officiating is getting worse every season.
AmberHawk
Active Member
Well he doesnt really say he dont like it, just that it needs to be more efficent and streamlined. Wich i agree with to. Cant have 5minute breaks, that can clearly shift momentum.
Like all new things, it will take time to perfect and i think in time it will.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
Yes, @IslingtonBornandbred I misinterpreted your post.
Do you have any suggestions though on how it could be streamlined. I have not seen how it is working yet
IslingtonBornandbred
Active Member
The officiating isn't getting worse every season. It's the same every season. The majority of decisions are always right. There are some key moments i.e penalties, that in hindsight are wrong, but the percentage is a low one. Some season's fans feel like they are on the end of more wrong decisions than other seasons but it's not a big deal. I get your point though because some games and decisions are frustrating.
The way VAR's being used at the moment is like a pantomime and putting replays on big screens will just encourage that.
I don't mind it for very clear and obvious decisions. For example, a goal is scored and then VAR see's on the replay the player clearly controlled the ball with his hand so a free-kick is given to the defending team. I don't like it when the referee gets into the realm of not giving decisions because VAR is available and then going back to review it. I even think for a lot of people it took too much time on Welbeck's incident last night. It's still early but ultimately I think it's going to be rejected in England unless like I said it's streamlined, faster and less "showman" like. Just wait till the referee starts goes over to his TV on the side of the pitch, people won't like it. They want to get the decision right, but when pundits and people first started talking about it, I think they envisaged it to work as follows: Player goes through on goal and defender brings him down, referee doesn't given a pen because he truly doesn't think it is one. VAR has access to superfast replay and in the time an assistant referee would flag, the VAR has already looked at it and said "Mike, that's a pen", and the ref award a penalty. It's not split second, but it's fast. In its current format, the referee waits till play has stopped and stands there having debate with the VAR and a conversation and that's why I don't like it.
Nobody has a problem with goal-line technology because it's simple and clear cut. Like using VAR to rule-out goals which shouldn't stand. Everything else is a minefield, and I don't think it can work imo.
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Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
I don't agree. I sit with a group of friends who all support different teams. Every single one of them agrees the mistakes being made are much worse than they have been in previous years.
IslingtonBornandbred
Active Member
As one of the best leagues in the world, don't you think we should be able to bring in the best referees from around the world? That could help. I also like having the extra set of eyes behind the goal in the additional referee. That also gives the main referee an extra angle and viewpoint in the area. And you know what's funny in my opinion... I'd actually rather prefer to see the side of the pitch littered with extra officials rather than VAR at the moment.
Last night without VAR, we might have got a pen for the challenge on ANM but then subsequently we would have likely conceded a pen for Welbeck. I honestly don't mind it, and I think the officials and some officials have the room to make much better decisions without VAR. The problem is, to reach the pro game as a referee in England, you've got to start officiating from a very young age and work your way up the divisions using the promotion system. It means for ex players, coaches, or semi-pro players it's very difficult to reach the higher level and some of the best referee's I've seen are ones who have truly played the game at a high level and understand the games little details i.e Mike Dean was probably the kid trying to referee games in the school playground rather than actually playing!
I'm OK with it being used to disallow goals or off the ball violent violence, but everything else, I don't like what I've seen from it so far in the MLS, Netherlands, Australia or Italy.
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AmberHawk
Active Member
For example the situation Islington mention abow with Welbeck. The play continued for 5minutes, then when play is whistled off the ref ask the VAR guys to look at the situation.
I dont see why they cant watch the situation while the play was going on, then they would have the descision imidielty instead of waiting for it.
Offcorse that dont help when the whistle is blown imidietly.
IslingtonBornandbred
Active Member
You know though, the official wording is "if it's a clear and obvious error". So the VAR could have thought that it was actually a penalty but the wording means he could have thought the referee didn't make a clear/obvious error so no pen.
One of the issues I have with it, even last night with Welbeck, the referee saw what he saw. The VAR has the replays. What the hell are they discussing? The VAR had enough time to review the incident before they started talking at the corner, so why do they need to have the chit chat? After about 10-30 seconds after the incident, the VAR could have said " Yep, no pen" and that's it. It doesn't have to be such a drama imo.
Jack_The_Lad
Active Member
I think it isn't the answer (don't know what is really), but it is definitely a step in the right direction.
Ultimately the guy sitting in front of the tv is still a human being and will make mistakes/ have an opinion of his own.
The biggest issue for me so far is the amount of time it takes occasionally, but that will most probably be ironed out with the refs getting more used to it.
Ultimately the guy sitting in front of the tv is still a human being and will make mistakes/ have an opinion of his own.
The biggest issue for me so far is the amount of time it takes occasionally, but that will most probably be ironed out with the refs getting more used to it.
SomGooner
Prolific Liker
VAR or no VAR we'll always get screwed by Mike Riley and his corrupt henchmen led by that Sp*rs loving tw@t Dean.
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
I dont see the connection between the two incidents. One decision was made without VAR, and the was. Both incidents were different in a number of ways too. At the end of the day, it's still human eyes and brains that make the final call. I can't see where it can or has to improve. I think it worked as good as anyone could have hoped!
Giroud12
Active Member
Agree with Mark Tobias here. The game is played at a faster and faster pace every year, and now the refs simply cannot keep up. This year it has been especially horrendous.
GDeep™
League is very weak
Kills the momentum a little, when you want to take a quick corner or fk.
YeahBee
Terrible hot takes
they don't really have to wait, they could let the game go on
sidelineref gets to review it, if it is decided that a penalty should be given or if a goal was allowed that shouldn't have been the next pause in the game you just award an extra penalty, or a card is given etc etc
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
Nobody here will give a sh!t about waiting an extra few seconds to take a corner if you're awarded a penalty instead ffs! I thought that was the whole point of it? You just cant please some people 
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
This is a huge issue for me too. I get this point totally.
Interesting concept. I am not sure how fans and professionals would take to this idea. Half the fun of a penalty/goal/Free kick is the emotion of the moment. It is what adds to the sport. If you are awarding freekicks and penalties 5 minutes later you run the risk of killing momentum for a team that has recently gained it. There is also the delay of celebrations/appeals for the incident.
I'm loving the ideas though. There is a way forward and this kind of discussion is how it will be achieved.
Mark Tobias
Mr. Agreeable
As a whole a great post and clear justification of your stance. Thanks for the response.
I would like to add to the bit I have highlighted here and say that this would not necessarily be the case. I have seen on many occassions a penalty at one end and none at the other where both calls were erroneous to begin with. Human beings have bias. This is a natural occurring phenomenon. I do however like your idea of more officials but how often do we see the main ref just outright overrule these guys. The guy running around on the pitch still has the final say and it is his bias that most of us are worried about.
