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UCL - AC Milan Vs Arsenal 19:45 15/02/12 ITV1

celestis

Arsenal-Mania Veteran
Moderator

Country: Australia
The Jury said:
It was just a one-off nightmare. I've moved on. I know a win on Saturday and another in our next league game will make this all go away. Actually, if we beat Sp**s the season could end and I'd be happy.

This exactly time to move on , league has been on the up . Cl for us this season is only good for giving the players an eye opener as to how far they have to progress to play with the best .
 

AnthonyG

Arse Emeritus
arsenalfc0719 said:
I hate Wenger's attitude. Its not a winners mentality.

Yes, its almost impossible to turnover a 4 goal advantage, but we've seen great comebacks before in the CL and saying that qualification is pretty much impossible and the tie is over is simply bad managing. Motivate your players and make us proud! we are ******* Arsenal Wenger! Don't come out saying it cant possibly be any worse in the next tie.

Wenger talks a lot about self belief. How our we supposed to have self belief when our own manager has such a losers mentality.
A very strange post. Wenger is being pretty realistic, as he should after that shellacking. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Such a weird way to take this (his comments) in my opinion.
 

Invincible

Established Member
The Jury said:
It was just a one-off nightmare. I've moved on. I know a win on Saturday and another in our next league game will make this all go away. Actually, if we beat Sp**s the season could end and I'd be happy.
Keep telling yourself that.

Or maybe you just started supporting Arsenal. :roll:
 

Invincible

Established Member
TheArsenalis said:
Normally no matter how bad situation is we always atleast try in the big occasions, and wenger once said in an interview that because of the occassion they dont need motivation, maybe this was a one off, to me this was whats missing #urgency and motviation, not that they couldnt do better they just werent up for it, and wenger didn't instil It. It cant get worst but the next game we gonna put.a.shift in.
Clearly, as we also saw during the Old Trafford carnage earlier in the season.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Airknight said:
Well from that perspective that would mean at least Wenger will try something new, and it might work.

What - in regards to motivation???

AW's strategy / theory re motivation has obviously NOT worked since the reported half time rant at LFC several seasons ago,
let alone the post CCup Final collapse last season & the OT game this season.
If he hasn't learned that lesson by now he probably won't - just like some of the players.
 

Proof

Established Member
I'm really not buying into this 'lack of motivation' theory.

As a manager you could face this problem, if you and your team keep on winning trophies. This is not the case at Arsenal. All the time our players are talking about ending the trophy drought. This is all about the team's quality and the cautious approach. You are motivated even when you play 5 v 5 street football with your friends, you want to win even if there's nothing at stake, no money, no big tournament, it's just the pleasure/pride to win.

I agree that it's the manager role to keep the players on their feet and tell them or yell al them (if it's necessary) at half-time after a disjointed first-half.

But the reason why you yelling at a certain player is because he has been poor, which means he doesn't have the quality to perform in that match/at the respective club or he has an off day (it happens) and you bring on a substitution for the second-half. But if that footballer keeps playing like a shipwreck constantly, it's either a quality problem, fatigue etc. I doesn't have anything to do with lack of motivation or desire to win. Everybody wants to win, everybody wants a gold medal.
 

Glovegun

Established Member
The lack of a trophy is slightly misleading. I think we all know that had we put some real effort into the domestic cups, we could've won something by now.

We've been completely consumed by qualifying for the Champion's League, and I hate what it's doing to us as a club. When your aims for the season are qualification for a tournament, not actually winning anything, it creates a problem. The mentality of the club is all geared around CL qualification because it brings in money, that is it. We've got no hope in hell of actually winning it. It's a purely profit making exercise.

Had we picked up a cup since 2005 I think we would've kicked on. But how many finals and semi-finals have we lost in that period? One Champion's League final, one Champion's League semi-final, one FA Cup semi-final, two Carling Cup finals, two Carling Cup semi-finals. That shows a lack of a winning mentality when you get down to the nitty gritty.
 

Enfield

Established Member
AnthonyG said:
arsenalfc0719 said:
I hate Wenger's attitude. Its not a winners mentality.

Yes, its almost impossible to turnover a 4 goal advantage, but we've seen great comebacks before in the CL and saying that qualification is pretty much impossible and the tie is over is simply bad managing. Motivate your players and make us proud! we are ******* Arsenal Wenger! Don't come out saying it cant possibly be any worse in the next tie.

Wenger talks a lot about self belief. How our we supposed to have self belief when our own manager has such a losers mentality.
A very strange post. Wenger is being pretty realistic, as he should after that shellacking. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Such a weird way to take this (his comments) in my opinion.


I take 0719s point tbh. The only thing is if Wenger were to be the type of person to do that, show some never say die attitude, then we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place.
 

SA Gunner

Hates Tierney And Wants Him Sold Immediately
Moderator

Country: South Africa

Player:Nketiah
In essence, give these bunch of weaklings to Fergurson for the run in. Im pretty sure you would see something.
 

Enfield

Established Member
SA Gunner said:
In essence, give these bunch of weaklings to Fergurson for the run in. Im pretty sure you would see something.


I've been saying this for a while. The reason that United are ahead of us is because of Ferguson. Teams quite often become the embodiment of their managers persona
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
eye4goal said:
This is a genuinely shocking result for Arsenal. In terms of style, Milan seemed the ideal side for them to face, because of their vulnerability to pace and width, but Arsenal didn’t show either of those features here. It’s staggering that Arsenal didn’t go wide more readily, and difficult to explain.

In one of their long-running spats at the turn of the century, Arsène Wenger once commented upon Sir Alex Ferguson, saying that “His weakness is that he doesn’t think he has a weakness.” Wenger’s weakness is that he doesn’t seem to know his side’s strength.

http://www.zonalmarking.net/2012/02/15/milan-4-0-arsenal-tactics/

I said just as much in my post-match analysis. The weapon Milan feared most, did not appear, because Wenger ridiculously benched Oxlade, whilst Gervinho was expectedly absent. This left Theo Walcott as our only threat in terms of pace and width, and we all know of the issues that engulf his game.
 

fabo

6.51 / 10
IMO the Oxlade omission was only a minor detail. There are 101 things to criticise Wenger about in general, but I'd place the blame firmly at the players feet for the ****fest that was Milan. Some of them should be ashamed of themselves.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
AnthonyG said:
arsenalfc0719 said:
I hate Wenger's attitude. Its not a winners mentality.

Yes, its almost impossible to turnover a 4 goal advantage, but we've seen great comebacks before in the CL and saying that qualification is pretty much impossible and the tie is over is simply bad managing. Motivate your players and make us proud! we are ******* Arsenal Wenger! Don't come out saying it cant possibly be any worse in the next tie.

Wenger talks a lot about self belief. How our we supposed to have self belief when our own manager has such a losers mentality.
A very strange post. Wenger is being pretty realistic, as he should after that shellacking. He's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. Such a weird way to take this (his comments) in my opinion.

It is a difficult situation for Wenger, but Milan have imploded twice on the European stage. They lost 5-0 against Deportivo in the 2nd leg, after winning 4-0 in the home tie. They also lost a 3-0 lead against Liverpool in the CL final. I know it's nigh on impossible for us to recover this deficit, and Wenger has said just as much, but I don't know, we could do without him saying it verbally.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
Proof said:
I'm really not buying into this 'lack of motivation' theory.

As a manager you could face this problem, if you and your team keep on winning trophies. This is not the case at Arsenal. All the time our players are talking about ending the trophy drought. This is all about the team's quality and the cautious approach. You are motivated even when you play 5 v 5 street football with your friends, you want to win even if there's nothing at stake, no money, no big tournament, it's just the pleasure/pride to win.

I agree that it's the manager role to keep the players on their feet and tell them or yell al them (if it's necessary) at half-time after a disjointed first-half.

But the reason why you yelling at a certain player is because he has been poor, which means he doesn't have the quality to perform in that match/at the respective club or he has an off day (it happens) and you bring on a substitution for the second-half. But if that footballer keeps playing like a shipwreck constantly, it's either a quality problem, fatigue etc. I doesn't have anything to do with lack of motivation or desire to win. Everybody wants to win, everybody wants a gold medal.

I don't buy it, either. Almost every single time we've lost a game, the large majority have blamed the team for lack of desire and effort, yet I have never ever got the same impression. I have never watched an Arsenal game, and thought, hey, these guys aren't trying hard. It was quite obvious in my opinion that we lacked quality, and organisation.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
mistaT said:
GDeep said:
Wenger bottled it with not starting OX, but last night was all about his players letting him down, disgraceful from the lads.

I can't help but feel this morning that the players were set up and conditioned to fail.

With Sagna and Gibbs both playing their first(second) game after lengthy absences ensures they would be off form. Playing FB without your proper conditioning is absurd, and it was clear as both labored all night and were rarely providing the width/pace we need.

Koscielny and Vermalean have played but 2-3 games as a CB pairing and it showed. They may be too similar, but last night it was more apparent they have no sense of each other's positioning and play.

The first goal sums this all up very well - Milan receive the ball and both Arteta and Gibbs buck pass pressing him. Neither of them do it and it looks as if they don't say a word to each other while just expecting him to be pressed. From there it only gets worse with Vermalean covering no one, and Koscielny unsure of what player to track.

No surprise that a back 5 with barely fit FB's and a newly paired CB partnership would get outclassed in Europe :|

Absolutely agreed. As tempting as it was to deploy our first choice backline, now that they had all become available, I would have stuck with our recent back four, just for the sake of continuity. Although, that would have meant starting Djourou in place of the injured Mertesacker. After all, 3 of our back 4 had not played in their position for several months. I always felt that we made the exact same mistake in the CL final.
 

outlaw_member

Established Member
fabo said:
IMO the Oxlade omission was only a minor detail. There are 101 things to criticise Wenger about in general, but I'd place the blame firmly at the players feet for the ****fest that was Milan. Some of them should be ashamed of themselves.

I think it would have completely transformed our offensive capabilities, just like we have witnessed ever since he was first introduced into the first team fold. We would have had a threat of pace on both flanks, meaning that Milan could not compress down Theo's flank, knowing that Rosicky will never look to go wide and in behind. Theo would have had more space with Milan no doubt having to double up and scurry over, every time Oxlade got the ball. We would have been more threatening on the counter, and when they were positioned deep. Furthermore, van Persie would have had better support. Having said that, there were also various other issues that also played a significant part.
 

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