UCL: Porto (A) Wed 17th Feb 19.45 ITV1

[outlaw_member]

What's with abrasive attitude, MD?

He's turning.

 

[MDGoonah41]

I don't consider that abrasive, to be honest.

I'm just slightly put off with the constant excuses that attempt to absolve Fabregas of his duties. If the intention is for him to play as a forward before the match starts, then I'm officially joining the Wenger Out camp, as its ludicrous to believe we have the personnel and the tactical awareness to play a 4-2-4, which is essentially what it is if Cesc is a forward. He might run a lot and put in the workrate, but he's simply caught out of position far too much. When the game starts, he's lining up on the right side of the midfield, but every time he has the ball he ends up in the center of the pitch. So if hes going to continue to do that, then he needs to start in the middle with the 2 other midfielders flanking him, making it easy to keep some sense of cover in the center.

I keep banging on about it, and even though it hasnt picked up steam, I continue to assert that we should be playing a 4-3-2-1 with Cesc in an advanced role, but with adequate protection behind him. Next season, if we sign Chamakh in the summer and RvP is fit, we can play Cesc as one of the 3, with Chamakh, Arshavin and RvP playing as forwards. But Rosicky and Nasri clearly aren't cutting it as forwards. So if Cesc is going to be deployed in an advanced position (ala Kaka), then he needs cover behind him.

 

[outlaw_member]

A 4-3-2-1 is the only formation which will turn certain square pegs into round pegs but it's one of the least deployed formations available. Not to mention, that players like Walcott and Vela will only end up replacing the current exiled batch as your prospected formation won't suit them. Lastly, the importance of our FB's will grow greater as they will become key components to our attack, something they admittedly already are but unlike the 4-3-3, they won't have a choice.

 

[Captain]

4321 is basically what we were playing anyway but I am assuming that you want the '2' narrow. I don't like it at all if I'm honest, not in this league.

 

[alboots101]

"doh"

 

[MDGoonah41]

4321 is basically what we were playing anyway but I am assuming that you want the '2' narrow. I don't like it at all if I'm honest, not in this league.

I want the two players in front of the midfield three to have complete freedom to move all over the front line. Arshavin suits this role perfectly. He's best when he's finding space, whether it be on the left, in the center, or even on the right. He's intelligent in that respect, as is Fabregas, and I think both of them deserve to be able to devote their energy to attacking. If van Persie was fit, and we had a legitimate striker, then I think its fine for Cesc to play in a 3 man midfield, but again I think he should be played through the center to start, with a midfielder on each side. It would help prevent our fullbacks from consistently getting isolated, especially Sagna. Song should be playing on the left side of Fabregas, as Clichy looks much more off the pace, and he could use the extra help. That would leave Ramsey or Diaby or whoever else on the right side of Cesc, helping protect Sagna. Both guys could also help come through the middle to break up attacks, because Cesc in the center will still find himself in advanced positions, hopefully just less so than now.

I think for us to be successful on all fronts, we have to control the middle 3rd of the pitch. Right now, we're not doing it at all. Our attacking options lack the penetration needed to take on a man, and it leaves us on the fringes, 20 yards from goal, without a clear option. Right now, I don't mind so much that Fabregas is being asked to play an advanced role. His vision is second to none, his short passing is excellent, and his shooting has vastly improved. I have more confidence in HIM 20 yards from goal than I do in Nasri, Rosicky, Walcott, Vela or any of our other attacks, bar Arshavin. Hell, Cesc's shooting is miles ahead of Bendtner too, and he's actually a forward.

The point is, we don't have the correct personnel in the team right now. If Cesc is part of the 3 man midfield, the options he has to pass to are subpar. None of the guys I mentioned above make penetrating runs into the box, none of them want to take on a man 18 yards from goal, or make a run to the byline, or make the cutting pass. Whether they physically can't, or lack the confidence, I don't know. But its forcing Cesc further up the pitch. And if he's going to do that, I'd prefer he just start there, so we can have a more organized 3 man midfield and dictate more of the play. Cesc is going to be aggressively marked no matter where he lines up. I'd rather him be closer to goal, because he can actually score or create for others. I'd play him next to Arshavin now, with Bendtner ahead of both of them, and let the three of them interchange and move around, with the security blanket of having 3 midfielders behind them. It would improve our defense (by a wide margin, I believe) and make us tougher to break down, which also allowing us to keep possession in the middle third.

As I said, next season if we can bring in reinforcements, actual attacking players who aren't afraid of the goal, then I'm all for Cesc playing deeper, playing a legit 4-3-3, and trying to be more balanced, though its still going to require a ton of discipline to play a 3 man midfield. But right now, its kamikaze, undisciplined noise. And I don't care for it.

 

[Captain]

Seeing as how we have spent almost a year developing the 4-3-3 and it was working quite well up until the strikers started dropping like flies, wouldn't it be better to just get 1 or 2 reliable strikers to play in the front three?

edit: scrap that, I just read the entire post properly. I'm not convinced by the christmas tree; it doesn't seem like a great compromise to me and the effort of starting over again is just too much.

Why can't we just play a 4-4-2 with Arshavin at 10 and Eboue on the right with whoever on the left if we want to balance it out promptly?

Personally, I am of the opinion that there is no need for the impatience, Cesc doesn't need to be running forward to score ten minutes into the game. Stay solid, keep possession, work the opposition until they tire and make your superiority count. We are a good enough side to get opportunities playing that way, we don't have to force it all of the time. That's how we played with Hleb and Flamini in there.

 

[sabret00the]

Yup, either that or just have to ambalamps on standby.

 

[outlaw_member]

Our team on the whole lacks patience. It's a funny world we live in, 2 years ago we weren't urgent enough in possession and generally played like we had all the time in the world. Today, we end up forcing nearly every move and slowing down play has been removed from our arsenal. Personally, the patient and measured approach of the recent past owed heavily to Hleb and Rosicky who were as pivotal as Cesc in controlling the tempo of our game. Now that Hleb is gone and Rosicky is a dead man walking, Cesc solely controls the tempo and to a lesser extent Song and as a result Cesc's youthful exuberance, impatience and naive forcefulness has been embodied by the team.

 

[MDGoonah41]

Next season, I think a 4-3-3 can work if Arshavin, Chamakh and van Persie are fit for the entire season. Those three are legitimate forwards, with both link up and goal scoring capabilities. But when one of them goes down, we're going to have similar problems to what we have now. Bendtner has a similar skillset to Chamakh, so he's fine cover on the right side of the forward three, but I'd love to replace Nasri and Rosicky in the squad with 2 legitimate forwards. Eduardo is kind of just hanging on now, he could play on the left side of the three, but we really need cover for RvP. Im not saying we'll find a player who is on his level, we're not buying David Villa or Dzeko (unfortunately), but there are players out there with experience who can play in the center of the three, hold the ball up, and score goals, and they don't all cost £20M.

As I said, Cesc can play in a 3 man midfield, but it will require much more discipline, and I think he needs to play centrally, not starting to the right. We lack balance right now, and thats one of the reasons.

 

[qs]

Gray just showed the 2nd goal in slow mo on his his Sunday evening show and the ref truly ****ed us. He seemed to deliberately block Sol off. For people criticising Sols reaction he's desperately tryin to get back as soon as the ref gives them the ball but Larssonn body checks him. The ref only puts his arm up well after the balls played. The whole incident is a farce.

 

[alboots101]

we got away with one yesterday..I dont like the swings and roundabouts analogy but if the shoe fits.

ps..I was livid at the time.

 

[qs]

We got away with what?

 

[alboots101]

that pen..90th minute..some you get some you dont...it was one of them.

All in all the 2nd Porto goal was a fk up all round.

It wont change the result and I`m not even convinced the ref will be struck off.

 

[Nela]

I'm watching an interview with the fourth official right now.

He said that Wenger was yelling at Hansson in both English and French.

I saw a rather lengthy interview with Hansson last year. I'm a bit surprised UEFA refs are allowed to give interviews like this.

I guess there must be some clear difference in rules between the FA and UEFA?

 

[outlaw_member]

Gray just showed the 2nd goal in slow mo on his his Sunday evening show and the ref truly f*d us. He seemed to deliberately block Sol off. For people criticising Sols reaction he's desperately tryin to get back as soon as the ref gives them the ball but Larssonn body checks him. The ref only puts his arm up well after the balls played. The whole incident is a farce.

Come on now, to blame the referee in that situation is ridiculous. Sulzeer's initial reaction after the incident was to look away and sulk, rather then man up and control the situation. As a result, he turned away from the ball and put himself in an untenable position whereby the referee was blocking his path. If he had kept his focus, he could have stayed next to the ball and try to influence the subsequent moments.

 

[General]

You have to evaluate the referees performance independent of our own failings. Rule misapplication is rule misapplication and in this regard the ref was guilty.

 

[banduan]

Spot on General.

Although I don't think the ref was misapplying a rule, I just thought he was being incredibly unprofessional and unsportsmanlike in applying what is a very grey area of the rules.

For all the whining and moaning Wenger did have it spot on when he talks about the ref as if the man was just being flippant. He was. You just can't do that.

 

[flobaba]

Is it just me, or is everyone taking quick free kicks nowadays?

 

[outlaw_member]

You have to evaluate the referees performance independent of our own failings. Rule misapplication is rule misapplication and in this regard the ref was guilty.

How was the rule misapplied?