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UEL SF 1st Leg: Arsenal v Atletico Madrid | April 26, 2018 20:05 BST | BT Sport

Discussion in 'Match Day Archive' started by American_Gooner, Apr 22, 2018.

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Match Prediction

Poll closed Apr 26, 2018.
  1. Arsenal Win

    55.6%
  2. 0-0

    2.8%
  3. Score Draw

    19.4%
  4. Atletico Win

    22.2%
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  1. asukru

    asukru Well-Known Member

    Watched most of the game and was happy with the chances created but we just couldn't put them away and Oblak showed why he is world class. As far as their defence - I am surprised we scored to be honest. Not surprised that we let a goal in which really stings, however, this tie isn't over yet - we just need to believe and keep pushing - I think having Mkhi back will really help our chances.
     
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  2. Arsenal1508

    Arsenal1508 Mods are unethical! Ozil, come assist me please!

    Okay...need to be more clinical. I hope Xhaka and Özil start practicing shooting from outside the box.
     
  3. Makingtrax

    Makingtrax Arséne Wenger once said "I will miss you"

    Wenger's tactics clearly better than Simeone's last night. Had more possession, more good chances and shots on target, much better grip on the game.

    Wenger's problem is that he can't assemble a squad capable of winning his way. It's all about the quality of the players.

    Their defence were under duress the whole match and individually they hardly put a foot wrong. One decent breakaway from Griezmann and Kos fails to clear, Ospina fails to block and Mustafi fell over.

    And our attack is the same, how many shots does it take to get one on target, and then it's straight at the keeper.

    Just like the United game, carved them apart to get 33 shots in, but hardly a one to trouble De Gea.
     
    carlito'sway and krackpot like this.
  4. Aevi

    Aevi Hale End FC Moderator

    Funny how people are giving up hope yet are complaining about the team's mentality.
     
    Raicore and blaze_of_glory like this.
  5. blazm

    blazm Member

    If I was manager of Arsenal I'd play 11 of you guys then go here after the match and complain about the players....
     
    Shergarse likes this.
  6. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    I'll tell you what though, forget playing, maybe a couple of blokes from Twitter such as Abhijeet Barve, Mitchell Burman, Ken Baiden, Mark Ferg, Pete, Tom, Stephen Gavanas, Aran Maxwell, Rob Smith and/or Steve should be in charge of opposition analysis, defensive coaching or mentoring the 32 year old French international Laurent Koscielny because they all seem to have identified and highlighted a major weakness in the last month which we saw exploited once again last night. Bloody "Steve" the Sp**s fan was going on about it against Brighton at the start of March!

















     
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
    Vinci, Camron, blazm and 1 other person like this.
  7. blazm

    blazm Member

    No, I was just making a point to people who blame the players and not the manager.
     
  8. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    Oh OK. Didn't quite understand the meaning of your post! :)
     
  9. krengon

    krengon One Arsene Wenger Trusted



    You know sometimes players mess up and it's not all down to not identifying a weakness/tactics..
     
    yybecause and carlito'sway like this.
  10. wobbler

    wobbler Member

    Disappointed by last night even though we played well.

    Could have really built a lead and to concede an away goal that late deflated me. Simeone can get his team to defend though so they did a good job but we were not clinical enough.
     
  11. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    Koscielny messed up the clearance. Everything before that i.e the positions taken and the lack of communication is 100% preventable. A long ball over the top can catch you out every now and then but when it's a recurring theme i.e nearly every game and I'm talking West Ham at home, Southampton at home, Newcastle away, Brighton away, Man City in the League Cup and that's just in recent weeks, you can probably say it's a weakness and a tactical issue.

    And that Wenger quote is pointless. OK, he identified the issue but what happened? One long ball over the top and Griezmann is one on one with Koscielny and scores. Somewhere there is a disconnect and it can't just keep being put down to individual errors or players messing up. They either aren't good enough, aren't listening, aren't concentrating, aren't communicating or they need more vocal instruction from somewhere so if Monreal is being a bit lazy and not getting out with his defence then that instruction for him to get out needs to come from his goalkeeper, centre backs or his manager/coach.

    I understand your point but it's all well and good saying you identified it after the game, but what happened during the game? Nothing.
     
    Raicore likes this.
  12. krengon

    krengon One Arsene Wenger Trusted

    What exactly should have happened? Drop deeper? We were 1-0 up against 10 men, a golden opportunity to increase the lead and Atletico were making defensive subs trying to limit the loss. We had at least 2-3 players at all time dealing with Griezmann, I don't see what more can/should've be done?

    The failure on that goal had all to do with the players on the pitch, Monreal's laziness is on him, lack of organising is on Koscielny(I'm guessing he's supposed to be the leader), you never organise a backline from the sidelines, that duty has always been one of the cb's.. Koscielny's mistake after that is on him.

    Now you can argue it's Wenger's fault for trusting these players with responsibilities they are not cut out for, but I can't agree this goal was a tactical mistake..
     
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  13. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    C'mon man. What exactly should have happened? The whole team shouldn't have dropped deeper. It's the positioning of the three defenders... Mustafi, Koscienly and Monreal, like you said. It's not a myth to say that this Arsenal side are naive and lack game management, especially in Europe, it's the truth.

    It's easy to say it's got nothing to do with Wenger and it's the players but ultimately it does. You are right, you can argue it's Wenger's fault for sitting there and trusting those three to do the right thing, but they didn't. It's not a one off.

    It's not a tactical mistake in terms of Wenger moving little magnets around a white board and saying "Monreal I want you to stand three yards behind Mustafi and Koscienly. Koscienly, I want you to have a lapse of concentration and let Griezmann get in behind you". But it's an ingrained defensive issue that's been allowed to fester in recent months.

    I disagree you can never organise a backline from the sidelines but ideally you shouldn't need to. There have been occasions where top coaches are standing on the sideline and if they see something that concerns them at that moment then they try and change it with an instruction or a gesture. Conte does it more regularly but I've seen Wenger do it occasionally as well.

    It's not necessarily a specific tactical issue on the night, but generally when the same thing happens repeatedly which shouldn't happen and that's one long ball up the pitch beating your whole defence, that's when it comes down to a tactical/structural issue that can be rectified by a manager or coach. It's more ingrained and it's more of an issue than just something that happened on the night.
     
  14. krengon

    krengon One Arsene Wenger Trusted

    Their only threat was the long ball and we had that under control, even after all those mistakes we made Koscielny had done the hard part of getting himself between Griezmann and the ball, just needed to clear it any way other than the one he chose. I see no problem in the way we were set up to end the game, we needed that extra goal and you'd expect Mustafi and Koscielny to deal with Griezmann(and they did really except for a stupid mistake.). That goal was all on the players(mainly Koscielny) imo, and if you think it was down to tactics I don't think we'll ever agree, so let's leave it at that..(Not saying we never make tactical mistakes, because there are plenty of good examples of that, that goal just isn't one imo).

    As for your second paragraph quoted, I agree with that.. That vulnerability I think comes with our playing style and we have a tendency to overcommit and that's definitely a structural issue.. How big of a problem that is I don't know, I'd like to see the statistics on how many goals/chances we concede because of long balls in behind and how it compares to teams with similar style as us or just teams that are known to play offensively..
     
  15. krengon

    krengon One Arsene Wenger Trusted

    @IslingtonBornandbred

    Re-reading my posts I'm not sure I'm making sense lol.. Basically I'm trying to say I agree we have had issues with long balls, but yesterday we identified that problem and had a good solution for it, in the end we got let down by individual mistakes.
     
  16. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    I think we are seeing a difference in what you are referring to as tactics and what I am referring to as tactics. I think you are talking about tactics on the night and the overall game plan whilst I am speaking more about tactical coaching or I guess training ground defensive work i.e positioning, working as a unit, getting up and down together, covering for each other etc.

    Ideally though, you'd hope you're defenders can deal with relatively simple balls over the top, and it's just the way football is that if a team concedes a certain style of goal over and over again or one ball over the top constantly causes unnecessary trouble once the players have been looked at, you then turn to the manager and say well what's he doing about it.

    To summarise before I log off, I blame the three players on the night but I blame Wenger and his coaching staff over the longer term for what I believe to be systematic errors.
     
    krengon likes this.
  17. IslingtonBornandbred

    IslingtonBornandbred Well-Known Member

    Just replied. I get it. We are just on different pages with the terminology and words used, but I get it! :)
     
    krengon likes this.
  18. krackpot

    krackpot Established Member

    Atletico are recent UCL finalists and 2nd in the SPL. And we played them off the park.

    Slightly disappointed with the score, but very pleasing performance.

    Rather these performances than the Bayern one.
     
  19. MkhiMagic

    MkhiMagic Well-Known Member

    Can’t for the life of me understand how anyone would Simeone as manager of Arsenal. Despise his cowardly anti-football tactics, dirty fouls and timewasting, no different than Mourinho really. I really hope it’s anyone but him as our next manager.

    A great night ruined by an undeserved goal, and shows what a difference a world class goalkeeper can make. We should have beat them 3-0, too much passing around Atletico’s box, no cutting edge or killer instinct.
     
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  20. CanadianGooner1608

    CanadianGooner1608 Well-Known Member

    Had to stay away for a bit to settle down after the game.

    Here's a point of optimism that I managed to summon up:

    Arsenal is routinely winning at home, and losing away.
    I am trying to see last night as a wonderful "turn of the tide" where we tie Athletico away, 2-2 and end the away drought by succeeding where we have been failing all season.

    Plus you know... Mkhi is coming back. Not much hope left, but I have a little glimmer of it. We'll qualify.
     
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