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Unai Emery: Adios

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Mark Tobias

Mr. Agreeable
For the record I only switched to Wenger out in his 20th season whereas Emery it was his 2nd season.
I've been here long enough to know how you post. I either agree with you or you at least challenge my thoughts enough with good posting. I totally umderstood your perspective and thought it needed to be said as well.
 

GDeep™

League is very weak
Why we mentioning George Graham? Won two titles but rest of the time his teams finished 4, 4, 6, 7, 10 etc. He was hardly Jose Mourinho.

You would think we were collecting clean sheets every week for years with Graham the way people talk about his defensive tactics.

Clearly, under him, we were not a top team.
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
Why we mentioning George Graham? Won two titles but rest of the time his teams finished 4, 4, 6, 7, 10 etc. He was hardly Jose Mourinho.

You would think we were collecting clean sheets every week for years with Graham the way people talk about his defensive tactics.

Clearly, under him, we were not a top team.
Now Wenger's gone we're slipping back to George Graham level.
 

Riou

In The Winchester, Waiting For This To Blow Over

Country: Northern Ireland

Player:Gabriel
Graham was s very good manager for Arsenal, not Wenger/Chapman level, but still quality...even managed to win a trophy with Sp**s, which is more than can be said of certain Sp**s managers... ;)
 

Makingtrax

Worships in the house of Wenger 🙏
Trusted ⭐

Country: England

Player:Saliba
It took a while but the mask finally came off for @Makingtrax. :lol:
The team is spending 5th, and said while he was fifth or above I'd support him. Now he's dropping and appears to have lost it . . but what?. . I've got to keep supporting him or it looks like I was pretending all along? :lol::lol::lol:
 
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Tir Na Nog

Changes Opinion Every 5 Minutes

Country: Ireland
The fact that Emery's main selling point was his 3 EL wins was telling in a sense that it just signifies him being a massive downgrade from Wenger. The fact that people were like ooh yeah he can won the EL, Wenger never managed that. *****, Wenger was in the CL for 20 consecutive years, of course he never won the Europa League.

We appointed a Europa League level coach and expected him to improve on a man who had us in the CL for 20 years, even if a lot of the fanbase were ungrateful for that. Who were we kidding. Appoint a Europa League level coach, get Europa League level standards.

In general I think our standards have fallen dramatically. At no point during Wengers reign did people ever think top 4 was enough, people were always demanding more. Yet now the narrative is that he shouldn't have been expected to get us top 4 last season, really? Isn't that we in the end Wenger had to go because he couldn't achieve top 4 anymore? So, then why would we give a much inferior manager more time than our greatest ever manager? The 17-18 season was unacceptable for Wenger, last season was apparently acceptable, currently being 8 points off top 4 and 9 behind Leicester and Chelsea side filled with youngsters is acceptable? How are the standards now so low? Top 4 shouldn't have been difficult this season, in the last couple of season we've spent more money than in any other period in our history. Since the addition of Lacazette all the way through to Luiz/Tierney on deadline day we've spent huge amounts of money improving the squad. Yet we look far worse now than we did at the start of that process. We've regressed the more signings we've made.

The club has made a mess of replacing Wenger, like many of us thought they'd do. Hence the phrase, be careful what you wish for. Many put their faith in the likes Ivan, Kroenke, Raul to steer the cub in the right path post Wenger. Your faith was misguided I'm afraid. Wenger wasn't holding us back he was holding everything together.

Regardless of whether Emery stays or goes in the near future I think these are dark times. Two strikers running down their contracts, our two starting midfielders likely to leave, a lobsided squad without real top quality CB's apart from some kid over in France who's meant to b our saviour despite only being a teenager, no LW and putting a lot of faith in youngsters who're probably nowhere near as good as any think. The fact that the board are being so reluctant to sack Emery is because they're clueless and haven't planned for the worst under Emery. They thought a few signings and things would be brilliant. They're in complete denial about the situation and in fairness the next manager will have a tough task fixing this mess.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Huh? That is the right way round for what he is trying to convey. Emery was a big fish in a small pond at Sevilla and Valancia. He is a small fish in a big pond at our club.

What's the right sized pond for him then? Genuine question. Cause even with the tainted image of a beautiful underachiever under Wenger, Arsena is still a big club somewhat. But Sevilla and Valencia are right at the step below so actually exactly his size of pond. If you say big clubs are too big for him, but EL/CL elevator clubs are too small for him, so what's his club size then? Nothing much left, tbh.
 

Hleb's Sirush

Established Member
What's the right sized pond for him then? Genuine question. Cause even with the tainted image of a beautiful underachiever under Wenger, Arsena is still a big club somewhat. But Sevilla and Valencia are right at the step below so actually exactly his size of pond. If you say big clubs are too big for him, but EL/CL elevator clubs are too small for him, so what's his club size then? Nothing much left, tbh.

I didn't say EL/CL elevator clubs are too small for him. I think those clubs, the Sevillas of this world are the perfect size for him.

The post you quoted, I was trying to explain to another poster what @El Duderino was trying to convey.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
If it is any consolation it isn't just our fans who turn quickly on their manager.

Sp**s fans were hailing Pochettino as one of the best managers around as little as 6 months ago. Now most of them can't wait to see the back of him

Sorry to quote you again, but this is another good example that you can never make any single factor the standard in evalution of a manager. Applies to more things than footbal but let's leave it at that.

You say "it isn't just our fans who turn quickly on their manager", with the emphasis on quickly. Which suggestes time is your main factor here. But it's not. Or rather it shouldn't be. It all depends on other factors like individual performances, team performance, player development, tactical development and handwriting, fitness, money invested; all of these have several more underlying factors. So depending on all of these, time is just one of almost a myriad of factors. How quickly fans turn either depends on if they're loud mouthed bellends to begin with or how all other factors besides time turn out. And with e.g Emery there's been enough time now in relation to the host of other factors going downhill that this turning of the fans cannot be called quickly anymore. In the world outside of the two decade Wenger Arsenal relationship, 1.5 years is almost damn slow, to be honest.
 

Hleb's Sirush

Established Member
Sorry to quote you again, but this is another good example that you can never make any single factor the standard in evalution of a manager. Applies to more things than footbal but let's leave it at that.

You say "it isn't just our fans who turn quickly on their manager", with the emphasis on quickly. Which suggestes time is your main factor here. But it's not. Or rather it shouldn't be. It all depends on other factors like individual performances, team performance, player development, tactical development and handwriting, fitness, money invested; all of these have several more underlying factors. So depending on all of these, time is just one of almost a myriad of factors. How quickly fans turn either depends on if they're loud mouthed bellends to begin with or how all other factors besides time turn out. And with e.g Emery there's been enough time now in relation to the host of other factors going downhill that this turning of the fans cannot be called quickly anymore. In the world outside of the two decade Wenger Arsenal relationship, 1.5 years is almost damn slow, to be honest.

When I say turn quickly on their manager I'm mainly speaking about the people who turned on Emery after he was here just half a season. Or the ones who did before he started his 2nd season. I'm definitely not talking about now, if that was the case I would have to include myself, as I'm in the Emery out camp now.

But like I said it is most fan bases now. Fans just aren't as patient as they used to be. You also have the other side, people who keep saying give the manager time even after he has been in the job enough time and it clearly isn't working, but they are tiny minority compared to the trigger happy majority.

Edit: I took Sp**s as a recent example how quickly fans demand the manager to be sacked.
 

Toby

No longer a Stuttgart Fan
Moderator
Fans just aren't as patient as they used to be.

Because the business got quicker via influx of money, player influence via Bosman, etc. Less than 10 games decide the season now. And continuity can only grow on results. Now it's about the results how you evaluate if it's good or bad. Longterm goals, longterm stability. E.g. that's why the Bundesliga model of 50+1 is good for football imo. It puts the importance on longtime good work, not just one good run or the next trophy or the next big investment. Of course like I said there's more factors at play at all time, too. But patience of fans, especially in the leagues in which you can basically buy success, has gone backwards. Because just like that there's the impression you can get quick success via quick changes, transfers, investments etc.

When I say turn quickly on their manager I'm mainly speaking about the people who turned on Emery after he was here just half a season. Or the ones who did before he started his 2nd season.

I was one of them and the signs were there. I'm usually all for continuity but if it just doesn't work, it doesn't work. And that was clear as day it wasn't just down to some player being unfit or whatever. The run in last season should have been the telling sign to everyone. And in that case you got to make decisions.
 
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