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United V Arsenal [Sat 16 May; 12:45]

Tony Montana

Established Member
Biggus said:
Tony Montana said:
Man for man, possibly, but even there I tend to disagree.

As a team, all the top 3 know what they're doing more often than we are. We are poor in defence, but even our attack is toothless when it really matters. We are missing something, and it's not just guts and desire.

Numbers, movement, intelligence, strength are all big factors for me.

You'd be amazed how guts & desire help at the schwerpunkt of a game. :wink:

But guts and desire wasn't our problem today. It was against Chelsea in the FA Cup for example but not today.

I'm talking about the tactics and the actual football.
 

the dawn raids

Established Member
progman07 said:
the dawn raids said:
Tony Montana said:
We just don't have enough intelligence in the final third.

its about numbers more than intelligence. even when someone breaks he looks up and we have at most two players in the box. what half decent team isnt going to snuff that out with ease?
So it's about the lack of intelligence to make runs into the final third... Almost the same.

desire plays into it just as much as intelligence. and you can argue that we have an overabundance of players who are intelligent. but youd be hard pressed to have much of a compelling argument with our players regarding desire.
 

progman07

Established Member
We kept the ball very well in the middle of the pitch. We won it back early, lots of time Toure came out of defense, and Denilson also had a good game.

Our problem was, that when we had the ball, we couldn't create any clear cut chances. Nasri, Cesc, Arshavin and especially Diaby weren't mobile enough and creative with their runs and movement to make openings in Man Utd's defense. We were passing around and you never had the feeling, "oh here we can enter their penalty box with a through ball in any moment". Nobody made runs into the box, so we had to cross and try long shots.
 

McIntyre

Established Member
True Gooner said:
Arshavin was invisible in the second half, you could see why he was taken off.

Dunno why Nasri went off though, he was our best attacking player today.

I don't think Arshavin was invisible second half. He was certainly more prominent than Diaby or Denilson, who both seemed to let the game bypass them in the second half.

I can't actually remember Denilson getting on the ball and doing something meaningful second half, but I can understand why Wenger kept him on since with Song in defence there would've been nobody to partner Cesc had he taken him off. But it's a sad state of affairs that Song actually marched up into midfield a number of times in the second half and did Denilson's job better than he ever could. :roll:

But Diaby, damn it, was just non-existent in the second half and if anybody should've gone off for Walcott or Bendtner it should've been him. Put Walcott wide and Arshavin in the hole. Or put Bendtner up front with RVP. But take Diaby off for somebody, please. He just lolloped around the pitch, didn't create anything, didn't win much and was generally not worth having out there.

He was okay in the first half but taking off Nasri and Arshavin, therefore destroying our possession game, instead of taking off Diaby just seemed pointless to me. The guy isn't going to hold the ball or create anything half as well as either of those two would.

Sometimes Arsène's substitutions boggle the mind.
 

Lukazan

Established Member
Can't believe we go in to this absolutely meaningless game and Wenger STILL doesn't have the balls to play a straight 4-4-2.
 

Anzac

Established Member
Lukazan said:
Can't believe we go in to this absolutely meaningless game and Wenger STILL doesn't have the balls to play a straight 4-4-2.

Or simply any formation with 2 up front. :roll:
 

tam1886

Established Member
Tony Montana said:
There's not enough quick thinking and movement in the box. We literally have to have an open goal to score against United. For all our possession, United had almost as many attempts on goal. Their chances were no less clear cut.
United had a grand total of 0 shots on target. The closest they came was Ronaldo's late wide freekick and Rooney's header which went a few feet wide.

It seems from reading here that we were either very professional, or let to play by a United side who were just running down time. I thought it was inbetween somewhere. United didn't come out to play for most of the match, but any time they did we coped well enough with it. It as much a case of not being allowed to as not wanting to in my opinion.

As for us, more promoising going forward, but still missing something. I don't think it's any coincidence that we're far improved when Fabregas is in his natural position and the pressure is off. But we're ****ed if the only time we can look reasonable is when there is nothing to play for. We'll win nothing that way.

Arshavin was like Casper in the second half. he floated around like a ghost, everyone could see him, but he wasn't in any way frightening. I thought he was starved of service though, we seemed to focus down the right a lot, and when he was moving and making space he wasn't being found. I had hopes for him as well after that run in the first half, three around him and he still found his way into a dangerous position in their box.
 

hackajack

Established Member
Lukazan said:
Can't believe we go in to this absolutely meaningless game and Wenger STILL doesn't have the balls to play a straight 4-4-2.
We went to OT two weeks ago and played 2 v 3 in CM - have you forgotten what happened already?
 

Biggus

Established Member
tam1886 said:
United had a grand total of 0 shots on target. The closest they came was Ronaldo's late wide freekick and Rooney's header which went a few feet wide.
It seems from reading here that we were either very professional, or let to play by a United side who were just running down time. I thought it was inbetween somewhere. United didn't come out to play for most of the match, but any time they did we coped well enough with it. It as much a case of not being allowed to as not wanting to in my opinion.

They did exactly what they had to do, and Wenger still won't instil that into the team.
 

arsenalfc0719

Established Member
I can't believe how anyone can say we played a good game. Man U gave us control over the game, they were nervous as hell, you could tell they wanted to celebrate today and they played for the draw. We, for all our possession, sideways and backward passes, did **** all. This was a game were all we had to fight for was not giving United the pleasure of celebrating in front of us, yet we hand them over the PL tittle gracefully. I am embarrassed of our cowardly display of football today.

Our lack of creativeness and intelligent movement and passing in the final third was laughable. It looked like we had forgotten all about Man U's area. I don't remember seeing one meaningful run in to the box today.

The biggest problem in our team is that everyone wants the ball to go to their feet and no one looks to run into space to receive the ball.

This team needs serious fixing from top to bottom.
 

Anzac

Established Member
True Gooner said:
I'm still not too worried about us going forward, I think it's matter of Wenger finding the right formation and the best position for some of the players we have here. Also, confidence and players hitting form plays a huge role as well.

I'm not convinced about our attack - I'm worried that while the players have talent that they've forgotten how to utilise it = poor movement & decision making. Furthermore I'm not convinced that ANY of our striker options are suited to the lone striker type role with pace of ball movement.

As for the confidence thing - part & parcel of having a team of development projects.
 

arsenalfc0719

Established Member
I'm definitely not convinced of our attack. Which bar Arshavin and Fabregas is poor. poor because they can't make things happen. Nasri is a pass merchant, he passes the ball sideways and backwards, no incisiveness to his game, both on and off the ball. Diaby is brainless, this kid hasn't got a clue about creating goalscoring opportunities. RvP's movement and finishing is poor, same with Ade.
 

Anzac

Established Member
alonso14 said:
thought you played quite well

flattering to deceive.........ManU didn't press after the first 10 minutes, and they choked up in attack after we started to pass the ball - they turned over possession too easily by rushing on their counters & never settled on the ball.
 

j'nuh

Well-Known Member
Anzac said:
alonso14 said:
thought you played quite well

flattering to deceive.........ManU didn't press after the first 10 minutes, and they choked up in attack after we started to pass the ball - they turned over possession too easily by rushing on their counters & never settled on the ball.

Their counters failed because we were sharp and aggressive in the middle, especially Kolo, Diaby and Denilson.

We dominated them, just couldnt find the key in the final third. Which is nothing to be ashamed of, they do have the best back four in the world.
 

Anzac

Established Member
arsenalfc0719 said:
I'm definitely not convinced of our attack. Which bar Arshavin and Fabregas is poor. poor because they can't make things happen. Nasri is a pass merchant, he passes the ball sideways and backwards, no incisiveness to his game, both on and off the ball. Diaby is brainless, this kid hasn't got a clue about creating goalscoring opportunities. RvP's movement and finishing is poor, same with Ade.

With Diaby behind the striker I'd have thought the idea would have been to use his strength on the ball to run at the defenders more - the physical stuff that Ade usually does.

I thought Nasri showed enough that he can beat his man & make space for himself, but then he had the problem of no movement off the ball ahead of himself.

RVP doesn't have the physical attributes to play the lone striker without someone making forward runs past him off the ball - a midfielder isn't going to do that naturally, they'll tend to play behind & look to play the supply role. RVP likes to work the pocket behind the runner as in a shepard in the oval ball game.

Bendtner is another creative forward as opposed to the front man, let alone lone striker, and Vela (and Eduardo) seem to be more effective making runs off a creative forward.

We have no strikers who look to take the defence on directly & ask them to stop them. I don't count AA as for me he's an AM/FC & would work best IMO with a free role behind the striker/s.
 

j'nuh

Well-Known Member
Lukazan said:
Can't believe we go in to this absolutely meaningless game and Wenger STILL doesn't have the balls to play a straight 4-4-2.

Its got nothing to do with balls. Wenger plays the formation he thinks will be the most effective. Trying to intimate theres anything else affecting the decision process is laughable.
 

Rocafella

Established Member
Don't be fooled, we did okay today, but that was because United only needed a draw. They did what they had to do and nothing more. The two games we played against them where it counted, they outplayed us without breaking a sweat. We gave a better account of ourselves today than we have done over the past few weeks, but that won't give us a final to look forward to.
 

Anzac

Established Member
j'nuh said:
Anzac said:
alonso14 said:
thought you played quite well

flattering to deceive.........ManU didn't press after the first 10 minutes, and they choked up in attack after we started to pass the ball - they turned over possession too easily by rushing on their counters & never settled on the ball.

Their counters failed because we were sharp and aggressive in the middle, especially Kolo, Diaby and Denilson.

We dominated them, just couldnt find the key in the final third. Which is nothing to be ashamed of, they do have the best back four in the world.

We were good at doing so through the middle for a change, partly because we jammed up with our 4 mids & the CBs. ManU were able to make inroads down the flanks as a result, but they didn't press forward in any numbers to force the issue. Most times in the 2nd half their attack was Cronaldo, Tevez & Rooney/An Other. We kept them so deep that their midfield couldn't support their attack fast enough, and Cronaldo & Co were poor at holding up the ball for the support (they just went for gaol)- unlike the opening 10 mins in the 1st half.
 

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