Our European record..

[avenellroad]

Relative to our status within the game we should be on at least 1 European Cup

How and why has it been so poor? We had some absolutely phenomenal teams during the late nineties / early noughties yet the best we could muster up were a few quarter finals. In 2006 we had a watertight defence which if I remember correctly didn’t concede a goal in open play until the final.

Should Wenger have prioritised a slower methodical style in Europe with the teams he had between 01-04?

 

[Buhry]

I remember in 03/04 I tihnk it was when we barely managed to scrap through our group after some overtime header from ashley cole against dynamo kiev and then going out against chelsea in the quarter final in a year where we really should have been the better team over 2 games, very dissapointing.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Relative to our status within the game we should be on at least 1 European Cup

How and why has it been so poor? We had some absolutely phenomenal teams during the late nineties / early noughties yet the best we could muster up were a few quarter finals. In 2006 we had a watertight defence which if I remember correctly didn’t concede a goal in open play until the final.

Should Wenger have prioritised a slower methodical style in Europe with the teams he had between 01-04?

It could even have been worse. We got battered by Parma for the Cup Winner's Cup Final, it was quite a fortunate win.

 

[Rex Stone]

Champions League is dumb f*cking luck. Yes you can have a Galactico XI but there’s four or five world class teams in it every year.

Ferguson was at Utd all those years and only won two and both his wins were jammy as hell. Same thing with Pep not winning one for 12 years.

We made a semi and a final and our squad when it was good almost got it done. That’s the game.

 

[db10_therza]

Champions League is dumb f*cking luck. Yes you can have a Galactico XI but there’s four or five world class teams in it every year.

Ferguson was at Utd all those years and only won two and both his wins were jammy as hell. Same thing with Pep not winning one for 12 years.

We made a semi and a final and our squad when it was good almost got it done. That’s the game.

The fact that City have only just won it once kinda speaks to what you’re saying as well tbh. By rights they should have won in 3 times by now probably

 

[Riou]

2 European trophies does feel a little less than what we should have, but we aren't the only huge and historical club like that...

Dortmund and Roma have 2 too, Rangers and Celtic are on 1 each...while Atletico and Valencia are on 4, etc.

Considering the level of our players and manager in the late 90s/early 00s, it does feel like we should have a few more though, not winning the Champions League in 06 and UEFA cup in 2000 were things we definitely should have done but didn't...but it is what is is really.

We still have a history (both domestically and in Europe) to be incredibly proud of, imo.

 

[Rex Stone]

The fact that City have only just won it once kinda speaks to what you’re saying as well tbh. By rights they should have won in 3 times by now probably

Real Madrid went 12 years without winning and didn’t even make it to a final in that time.

You need to have a great team for a decade and even that’s not a guarantee.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

Trophies smoothies. It's enough just to enjoy one game at a time. Focus on the next game!

 

[avenellroad]

Would actually love it if Arteta prioritised the CL this year. If we get a decent enough draw I’ve got a sneaky feeling that we could go quite far

 

[Rex Stone]

Would actually love it if Arteta prioritised the CL this year. If we get a decent enough draw I’ve got a sneaky feeling that we could go quite far

It’s one of those things you can say but say we draw PSG and MBappe just goes off for two games? That’s it for this year.

On the other hand we could get Copenhagen followed by Dortmund and Inter then we’re in the final. It’s all look.

 

[AberGooner]

There where some real quality sides in the CL when we where at our best under Wenger. On paper. I think 03/04 is the one season where we had a great draw and probably should have won it, the big regret if you like.

In recent years I'm still really disappointed we had 5 seasons in the Europa and never really looked like winning it. I feel a Liverpool or a Man United would've probably taken 1 of them in the same position but unfortunately we don't really have that European pedigree historically, which I feel definitely plays a part.

It's not a given and it's not easy to get over the line. Even with all the money Chelsea and City took many years to get it done.

 

[GDeep™]

You need luck and/or absolutely elite quality that is above the rest, to win this completion - European Cup. In all the years I have supported this club, we have never had the luck or been the best.

For the bulk of the Wenger years, Utd, Chelsea, Milan, Juventus, Real, Milan, Barcelona, Bayern etc have been the far superior teams.

Now that Europe is weaker, I’ll say we are currently 4th favourites for the competition behind City, Real, and Bayern. Let’s see happens.

You have the rare case of Liverpool that we can’t match, you can’t deny they just have some sort of aura or magic in European Cups.

Never mind the CL, we got battered in Europa Leagues.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

We've never been THE top team tho, other than 03-04 which was a bizarre season anyways. And 05-06 we were extremely unlucky. Other than that we were just the 3rd/4th best team from England most of the time.

Historically we weren't allowed to enter the 89/90 competition and before that we were only in it once previously because you could only qualify for winning the league. Apart from Liverpool in 05 and Chelsea in 12 it's extremely rare to see a side be so far off domestically but still win the CL. There was probably only a brief period where we should've even been considered contenders between 03 and 06.

Looking back past 06 it's actually ridiculous that it was used as a stick to bear Wenger with, dealing with selling players funding a new stadium but he was slated for never bearing that Barca super team or Real between 14-18 for the CL among others.

 

[Topside]

For a club our size with the teams we have had we have underachieved and it's simply because we haven't performed in finals for various reasons.

Seven European finals in various competition only two wins.

Barcelona was a heartbreaker 2006, Valencia 1980 also to a lesser extent. We were underdogs both those finals.

Galatasaray 2000, Real Zaragoza 1995 (I attended ) we really underperformed. Big favourites in both those games.

Chelsea 2019 blown away in the end.

 

[TheEliteMaster100_]

We don't have European heritage like Liverpool does.

George Graham had better record away from home in Europe than at Home.

Wenger never mastered playing in Europe, whether it was at Monaco or Arsenal.

In fact, if one closely analyses his European record for Monaco, the bottling is more painful than Arsenal for example;

1989 Quarter final loss to Galatasary in the European Cup, Galatasaray would get knocked out in the Semis to Steaua Bucharest (yes they won a European Cup but this was doing the English ban in Europe, English Champions Everton would have destroyed Steaua Bucharest) and Steaua Bucharest would lose to Milan in the final who benefited a lot during English ban in Europe as Liverpool/Everton and Arsenal under Graham would have really challenged AC milan.

1990 Semi final loss to Sampdoria in the European Cup Winner's cup

1991 grouped in Round 3 in the UEFA cup to Torpedo Moscow


Wenger loss in another European final, this time to Werder Bremen in the 1992 European Cup Winner's cup

1993 grouped once again this time in the European Cup winners cup second round to Olympaicos

1994 Semi-final destruction by Ac Milan in the Champions league


So when you look at Wenger's shambolic European record for Monaco and Arsenal why are we surprised? he didn't know how to play in European games tactically, look at how Deportivo outclassed us in 2002 with their crisp passing/build up.


Arteta so far has been knocked out in Europe 3 times at the Emirates.

I wonder what fellow posters think about it @Macho @2Smokeyy @Trilly @Sebastes @SA Gunner

Imagined Bayern actually hired Wenger in 1994, when it was touted, do you believe they'll accept Wenger being humiliated in Europe or not winning enough league titles, he would have been sacked quickly. Especially when Bundesliga had tough teams such as Bremen, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Karlsruher and an emerging Dortmund

Look at how Heynckes when he was coaching Real Madrid, he was sacked because he finished 4th in La Liga, 11 points behind La liga Winner Barcelona and no Copa del ray victory (knocked out in first round, Barcelona won the trophy vs Mallorca), despite winning their first European Cup since the late 1960 against Del Pierro's Juventus.

 

[Riou]

We don't have European heritage like Liverpool does.

George Graham had better record away from home in Europe than at Home.

Wenger never mastered playing in Europe, whether it was at Monaco or Arsenal.

In fact, if one closely analyses his European record for Monaco, the bottling is more painful than Arsenal for example;

1989 Quarter final loss to Galatasary in the European Cup, Galatasaray would get knocked out in the Semis to Steaua Bucharest (yes they won a European Cup but this was doing the English ban in Europe, English Champions Everton would have destroyed Steaua Bucharest) and Steaua Bucharest would lose to Milan in the final who benefited a lot during English ban in Europe as Liverpool/Everton and Arsenal under Graham would have really challenged AC milan.

1990 Semi final loss to Sampdoria in the European Cup Winner's cup

1991 grouped in Round 3 in the UEFA cup to Torpedo Moscow


Wenger loss in another European final, this time to Werder Bremen in the 1992 European Cup Winner's cup

1993 grouped once again this time in the European Cup winners cup second round to Olympaicos

1994 Semi-final destruction by Ac Milan in the Champions league


So when you look at Wenger's shambolic European record for Monaco and Arsenal why are we surprised? he didn't know how to play in European games tactically, look at how Deportivo outclassed us in 2002 with their crisp passing/build up.


Arteta so far has been knocked out in Europe 3 times at the Emirates.

I wonder what fellow posters think about it @Macho @2Smokeyy @Trilly @Sebastes @SA Gunner

Imagined Bayern actually hired Wenger in 1994, when it was touted, do you believe they'll accept Wenger being humiliated in Europe or not winning enough league titles, he would have been sacked quickly. Especially when Bundesliga had tough teams such as Bremen, Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Karlsruher and an emerging Dortmund

Look at how Heynckes when he was coaching Real Madrid, he was sacked because he finished 4th in La Liga, 11 points behind La liga Winner Barcelona and no Copa del ray victory (knocked out in first round, Barcelona won the trophy vs Mallorca), despite winning their first European Cup since the late 1960 against Del Pierro's Juventus.

You are just an old fashioned and unlikeable, aren't you mate.

 

[Riou]

Wenger was definitely an overrated loser of a manager when you think about it...

All he has is being the only manager in Prem history to beat Ferguson without a sugar daddy backing him, a record amount of FA cup (the oldest competition in the world) titles to his name and the only manager (bar that Preston don back in like the 1500s) to have won a UNBEATEN league championship.

He didn't win any "European trophies" (like that's such a different thing compared to all the medals he does have when you think about it though) as only the absolute elite of managers like Roberto Di Matteo and David Moyes can completely fluke their way to one proving how "good" you have to be to win one and not just incredibly lucky.

Angry now, how can an "Arsenal fan" speak about Arsène like that

 

[Beany]

We can end this thread here and now - I’ve been too four european finals and weve lost all of them. It‘s my fault. I’m the common denominator Take out your frustrations on moi…

 

[Riou]

@Beany going to all those finals...

...I mainly blame your family and friends for not stopping you at some point, ffs

 

[Sapient Hawk]

We can end this thread here and now - I’ve been too four european finals and weve lost all of them. It‘s my fault. I’m the common denominator Take out your frustrations on moi…

I guess it's a small blessing you didn't nanage to find your way to Copenhagen in '94.

That's as sweet a European memory for those of us old enough to remember it & I want to thank you personally for making it happen