Klaus Daimler
Established Member
Right, but here's the thing: it doesn't matter what you think because it isn't so.DC Gunner said:I don't think our players are allowed to express themselves on the field
Right, but here's the thing: it doesn't matter what you think because it isn't so.DC Gunner said:I don't think our players are allowed to express themselves on the field
Thanks, but I don't take your opinion as the bible.Klaus Daimler said:Right, but here's the thing: it doesn't matter what you think because it isn't so.DC Gunner said:I don't think our players are allowed to express themselves on the field
And with one sentence you once again try to disregard all the previous statements, the main thing that supports your view being you "don't think". I don't know why I even bother.DC Gunner said:Thanks, but I don't take your opinion as the bible.Klaus Daimler said:Right, but here's the thing: it doesn't matter what you think because it isn't so.DC Gunner said:I don't think our players are allowed to express themselves on the field
Anzac said:There's a frequently used riposte used here that goes along the lines of real life not being like FM etc. However, as any FM LLM (Lower League Manager) will tell you - you either buy the players to suit your style / system of play OR you play a system to best suit your available players / finances. My contention is that AW having refused the former option, is now faced with having to follow the latter option if he wishes to address any of the issues facing the team performances.
Why do you !?Klaus Daimler said:And with one sentence you once again try to disregard all the previous statements, the main thing that supports your view being you "don't think". I don't know why I even bother.
quincy42 said:We sit here complaining about players determination and ability, and the constitution all day long, but these are all factors that Wenger is responsible for.
To be fair I called it a self supporting model finally showing some signs of working. I wasn't really expecting someone to lift it out of context like that, because it obviously loses its credability then. I agree with much of your post except for the first pargraph, but I also think that the criticism has to wait until the end of the season. United has had a pretty bad start this year too, and we know how it turned out for them last season when that happened. And yes, we lost two good players and only replaced one of them in the summer, but Denilson isn't doing bad right now. And if you consider the loss of Gilberto as a big deal then you might as well include Lehmann and Hoyte there, I guess. They had about as much impact on last season as he did. We lost experience, but experience only counts for so much in itself. Despite that, however, it IS true that buying is needed to bridge the gap, and I do agree that it's something that was neglected in the summer.General said:others call it "a self supporting model"
That's at best highly contentious and at worst bollox. Wenger's model is clearly to give players their head and encourage responsibility - this has clearly worked for many (though not for say Reyes who couldn't handle the pressure). It has become more important as the balance of power switches from club to player.General said:It is obvious Wenger’s model of management is becoming increasingly flawed in the modern era and this is largely down to his reactive outlook to things in general. It is the biggest chink in his armour- whether it is the timing of his substitutions, reacting to a tactical switch by the opposition or recognising the imperativeness of seeking external resources to bridge the gap in quality in the squad. Primorac is either not been honest with him out of courtesy or they are both simply suffering from good old delusions of grandeur.
kamikaze80 said:anzac, i generally agree with you but i hate when you say "wengerball". wenger didnt invent a new style of play - we're just a good footballing side.
Rohit said:Anzac said:There's a frequently used riposte used here that goes along the lines of real life not being like FM etc. However, as any FM LLM (Lower League Manager) will tell you - you either buy the players to suit your style / system of play OR you play a system to best suit your available players / finances. My contention is that AW having refused the former option, is now faced with having to follow the latter option if he wishes to address any of the issues facing the team performances.
Refused the former option? Are you serious?
Wenger decided to adopt a different style after selling Vieira and letting Cesc take over the mantle. Adebayor, Hleb, Rosicky, Nasri etc are all bought to suit that system.
If you are talking about only filling gaps after all of the aforementioned had been bought i.e. this summer window then i misunderstood and apologise.
Klaus Daimler said:Yes, well, I was merely making the poing that the opinion "I don't think our players are allowed to express themselves on the field" isn't true. And that isn't really an opinion, it's a simple fact. I've got no problem with people that offers different views, as long as they share something that's thought-through and grounded in reality.
hackajack said:That's at best highly contentious and at worst bollox. Wenger's model is clearly to give players their head and encourage responsibility - this has clearly worked for many (though not for say Reyes who couldn't handle the pressure). It has become more important as the balance of power switches from club to player.General said:It is obvious Wenger’s model of management is becoming increasingly flawed in the modern era and this is largely down to his reactive outlook to things in general. It is the biggest chink in his armour- whether it is the timing of his substitutions, reacting to a tactical switch by the opposition or recognising the imperativeness of seeking external resources to bridge the gap in quality in the squad. Primorac is either not been honest with him out of courtesy or they are both simply suffering from good old delusions of grandeur.
His tactical position is one of: 'I trust you guys to win the game and I'm going to give you 70/75 mins to do that' similar to Ferguson who also rarely chops and changes mid game. I think the squad thing is about him really feeling that he couldn't get the right player at teh right price and being unwilling to compromise - for example I (and he) think Barry is not good enough to play for Arsenal. He might have helped us for a few games right now but he isn't the right stuff to win a PL or CL.
I'll leave the formation one for another day but I think the execution has been flawed in terms of deepening the squad (which may be a longer term strategic error) and in terms of addressing here and now issues like not having any DMs. The former I don't understand - it may be that he believes a tight core is still enough to compete on two fronts or that he thinks our fringe players are going to develop enough to bridge the gap. The latter may be not being able to get the right quality of player - I've hired people and the biggest mistakes I've made were always when I thought 'this isn't really the right person but we need someone badly'. It's actually the easy but wrong option just to go out and get someone who'll do. That said I don't think we couldn't find a DM in any league Sessengnon, Makoun etc etcAnzac said:If you are right then IMO the execution is flawed.
I think he wants a DM alright but he doesn't want to play a holding player like a Makelele nor does he want an average quality player like say Barry. If he could have bought the new Vieira in the summer I have no doubt he would have done that. I don't agree with the other solutions - basically to win games you need to win the CM and you need a balance of players to do that.Anzac said:but IMO AW doesn't want a DM type & would actually prefer a more fluid / creative / ball playing MC pairing - it's the only reason I can think of to justify the sale of 3 DM types along with his comments re Song as CB = no DM types in the senior / fringe players. This then leads me to the conclusion that the defensive cover needs to come from elsewhere, I.E. the FBs, as to change to the 451 / 4141 is at best a compromise/d solution (re no genuine DM type players), to a defensive issue based upon providing cover to the CBs.
hackajack said:That's at best highly contentious and at worst bollox. Wenger's model is clearly to give players their head and encourage responsibility - this has clearly worked for many (though not for say Reyes who couldn't handle the pressure). It has become more important as the balance of power switches from club to player.General said:It is obvious Wenger’s model of management is becoming increasingly flawed in the modern era and this is largely down to his reactive outlook to things in general. It is the biggest chink in his armour- whether it is the timing of his substitutions, reacting to a tactical switch by the opposition or recognising the imperativeness of seeking external resources to bridge the gap in quality in the squad. Primorac is either not been honest with him out of courtesy or they are both simply suffering from good old delusions of grandeur.
His tactical position is one of: 'I trust you guys to win the game and I'm going to give you 70/75 mins to do that' similar to Ferguson who also rarely chops and changes mid game. I think the squad thing is about him really feeling that he couldn't get the right player at teh right price and being unwilling to compromise - for example I (and he) think Barry is not good enough to play for Arsenal. He might have helped us for a few games right now but he isn't the right stuff to win a PL or CL.
hackajack said:I think he wants a DM alright but he doesn't want to play a holding player like a Makelele nor does he want an average quality player like say Barry. If he could have bought the new Vieira in the summer I have no doubt he would have done that. I don't agree with the other solutions - basically to win games you need to win the CM and you need a balance of players to do that.Anzac said:but IMO AW doesn't want a DM type & would actually prefer a more fluid / creative / ball playing MC pairing - it's the only reason I can think of to justify the sale of 3 DM types along with his comments re Song as CB = no DM types in the senior / fringe players. This then leads me to the conclusion that the defensive cover needs to come from elsewhere, I.E. the FBs, as to change to the 451 / 4141 is at best a compromise/d solution (re no genuine DM type players), to a defensive issue based upon providing cover to the CBs.