EPL | Burnley FC vs Arsenal FC | 2nd of October at 16:30 (GMT)

[Sapient Hawk]

Seriously... that's a handsball. Rashford one, that's a handsball, and so many other decision went awry.
And if we are on the receiving end instead of the one scoring, we would be furious.
We are looking like mugs here trying to defend it's not a handsball, it is, we got lucky. END of

We certainly were lucky, however, as we were beneficiaries of said luck we should rejoice in it. The fact that it's a handball is not in dispute, similarly though, we cannot discount the fact that it wasn't intentional.

A moot point though, as the denizens on redacfe are seething about the rather debatable offside

 

[Finesse]

Is it just me or some of us failed to take notice of Burnleys home record and goals conceded over the last 10 or more home games. Liverpool has been very effective this season and were done at Burnley after the high of a victory at the Emirates. Going by the performances of our last 2 games may be we thought it would be a stroll. That is blatant complacency. The same attitude we are chastising the players for. This is a difficult game on its own looking at factors like our midweek cl game, Burnley set up and home record, fatigue etc. Burnley must be given credit and they worked hard at their game plan.

I think the players gave their best and wanted to win so bad despite all. You could see when the ball went in and what it meant to them. These are the games that win you Champiomships. All champions go through at least 4 of these to win it every year.

This is so much progress and to single out players and chastise after a run like this is not my way. The confidence of the team is fragile and we know that. Getting behind them is key. Even on the forum. We expect the travelling fans to do it and we too should. I prefer to return with 3 points after a tough game cos we could have lost on another day. Sitting 3rd with City dropping points and a long international break for some players to recover is indeed where we want to be.

 

[skip spence]

Who cares about handball or not at this point? The ink is dry, it's a good goal and three points...

Sometimes I actually prefer wins such as this one. Dirty, lucky wins.
Reminds me of an old quote from Björklund, a retired Sweden defender. He said that the best wins for him wasn't dominating for the entire game and putting four or five past the opposition. He much preferred winning from a position when you've been outplayed thoughout but somehow undeservedly manage to nick a winner from a deflected long-shot or something like that. I can certainly see where he's coming from.

 

[Rain Dance]

We certainly were lucky, however, as we were beneficiaries of said luck we should rejoice in it. The fact that it's a handball is not in dispute, similarly though, we cannot discount the fact that it wasn't intentional.

A moot point though, as the denizens on redacfe are seething about the rather debatable offside

redcafe denizens can **** off, I still remember the blatant handball their player did (I don't even remember the player... or the year but the event clear as day) a cross was aimed perfectly at a running van Persie and their defender know he will miss the header and decide to use a blatant volleyball smash.
Should have been red and penalty. corner kick.

and redcafe say, "it was not deliberate".... my arse has delivered more conspicuous diarrhea

 

[Mark Tobias]

Who cares about handball or not at this point? The ink is dry, it's a good goal and three points...

Sometimes I actually prefer wins such as this one. Dirty, lucky wins.
Reminds me of an old quote from Björklund, a retired Sweden defender. He said that the best wins for him wasn't dominating for the entire game and putting four or five past the opposition. He much preferred winning from a position when you've been outplayed thoughout but somehow undeservedly manage to nick a winner from a deflected long-shot or something like that. I can certainly see where he's coming from.

But that doesn't really describe our game last night at all. It isn't that WE didn't deserve the win. It is that Burnley didn't deserve to be beaten in that manner.

 

[razörist]

Also the losing streak is still alive! You're welcome guys, never in doubt.

 

[Sapient Hawk]

redcafe denizens can **** off, I still remember the blatant handball their player did (I don't even remember the player... or the year but the event clear as day) a cross was aimed perfectly at a running van Persie and their defender know he will miss the header and decide to use a blatant volleyball smash.
Should have been red and penalty. corner kick.

and redcafe say, "it was not deliberate".... my arse has delivered more conspicuous diarrhea

You've just given them the makings of a tagline they can only dream of

 

[bingobob]

How was he onside? Ox kicked the ball into Koscielny who was clearly offside.

The Ox didn't kick the ball.

And herein lies the difficulty of video replays. I've seen that goal he wasn't offside you've said he did kick it you've said offside.

Fantasy football has Walcott as the assist and some people are saying handball Im saying it wasn't.

A handball has to be intentional so it can't be a handball. If that's a handball the one the Burnley defender blasted clear onto his team mates hand is a hand ball, longer distance etc. Maybe given the dubious nature of handballs it evened itself out. Sadly that's not the rules. Nor is unfair advantage. It is deliberately handling the ball and Koscielny didnt do that. Nor did the Burnley player. Yet nobody is focusing on that handball.

 

[skip spence]

But that doesn't really describe our game last night at all. It isn't that WE didn't deserve the win. It is that Burnley didn't deserve to be beaten in that manner.

Yeah I'm aware that Burnley didn't outplay us and that we probably deserved the win whatever that means. Still it was a ugly and fortunate win. Scrappy, last minute goal that probably shouldn't have been given and didn't look like coming. Our rivals must be fuming and that makes it all the more sweet, that is my point.

 

[razörist]

The Ox didn't kick the ball.

And herein lies the difficulty of video replays. I've seen that goal he wasn't offside you've said he did kick it you've said offside.

Fantasy football has Walcott as the assist and some people are saying handball Im saying it wasn't.

A handball has to be intentional so it can't be a handball. If that's a handball the one the Burnley defender blasted clear onto his team mates hand is a hand ball, longer distance etc. Sadly that's not the rules. Nor is unfair advantage. It is deliberately handling the ball and Koscielny didnt do that.

Hmm this is really difficult. In the Netherlands the rule is easy: its an unnatural body position with his hands so high, it goes in after hitting his hands in that position so there is a clear advantage --> goal disallowed.

 

[yybecause]

Great organized defensive performance by Burnley. They studied us, and they knew we were without Giroud, so they made it super tight in the middle. Our tired players werent sharp enough to break them down, final ball was missing, but we did create some nice moves, especially on the counters.

Our CB's were rocking it. Defending, and stepping up later in the game to help score a goal.

There were 2 handballs by Burnley players which ref categorized as not deliberate, even though it would change the game as those would be penalties if called. He did stick to the rules, so hats off to him for doing the same for 3rd non deliberate handball.
If that happened outside of the box, he wouldnt call it, so there u go, good job from ref.

We really missed Giroud, as expected for games like these. Both Welbeck and Lucas would be of much help yesterday, as would Ramsey-who will make a run when noone else would. All of that makes those 3 points sweet as it gets. Will be easier to survive **** international break now

 

[Rocky]

Sp**s, Man City and Liverpool are all looking like serious contenders but with the luck Arsenal finally seem to be getting I am tempted to say they're destined to nick it. They could easily have got less against Leicester, Southampton and Burnley and be as far as 8 points off the top already.

Can't afford to be jaded like Wenger said though so rotating players like Lucas, Ramsey, Ox will be key.

 

[razörist]

Liverpool? You're not a title contender with Mignolet in goal, a **** defence and Henderson as your captain. Their playing style helps them a lot, but once the attackers hit a rough patch the defence will cost them.

 

[Goonerozil33]

We are looking like mugs here trying to defend it's not a handsball,

It was offside and a hand ball. Ox kicked the ball to Kos's hand and Kos was in more advanced positions than Ox.

I have watched it so many times and it was last touched by Kos. And no it is not a handball because the handball has to be deliberate. That is the law. So this was a legitimate goal. It was lucky and controversial. It could have been ruled out in real time. But with multiple replays there is no way on earth it is a handball.

 

[Ash10]

Handball = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handball
Handsball = https://www.google.com/search?q=handball&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b#q=handsball

Well that was illuminating

 

[samshere]

If his hands weren't there, the ball would've hit his head and into the goal.

 

[Rocky]

After watching umpteen replays and reading for a while about the handball rule, i have to say it is a valid goal. There is no offside since it did not touch Ox. Handball rule states that player has to deliberately touch the ball. I dont think Kos was trying to deliberately touch the ball. It was definitely a lucky goal. But as per the law it is a valid goal.

Isn't there a separate part that say that for unintentional handballs, no advantage should be allowed to be gained?

 

[Mark Tobias]

Liverpool? You're not a title contender with Mignolet in goal, a **** defence and Henderson as your captain. Their playing style helps them a lot, but once the attackers hit a rough patch the defence will cost them.

This. They're outscoring teams at the moment. Not beating them outright.

 

[Rocky]

Liverpool? You're not a title contender with Mignolet in goal, a **** defence and Henderson as your captain. Their playing style helps them a lot, but once the attackers hit a rough patch the defence will cost them.

I hope that's true but have you heard them using the 'jaded' excuse yet? Lack of European football can make up for their deficiencies. I think they'll finish 4th though.

Glad to see that you're tacitly accepting Sp**s as title contenders though. I was abused for picking them in December last year, yet they still pushed Leicester for longer than anyone. Sp**s Invincibles?

 

[Rain Dance]

I have watched it so many times and it was last touched by Kos. And no it is not a handball because the handball has to be deliberate. That is the law. So this was a legitimate goal. It was lucky and controversial. It could have been ruled out in real time. But with multiple replays there is no way on earth it is a handball.

the ball clearly struck Kos hand, and Kos was offside as Ox also got a touch.
deliberate or not it was up to the referee, and we got lucky.
And as you said yourself it could have been ruled out in real time, would anyone here complain if that was disallowed? This is the main point
What's the point trying to mindlessly defend that goal, made us looks like a fool. fact is we got lucky. END OF