Premier League | Stoke City vs Arsenal | 19/08/2017 | 17:30 BST (16:30 UTC) | BT Sport

[Makingtrax]

I don't agree completely with what you've said but you have made a lot of sense.

We're all human and not everybody can put the anger aside and objectively analyse a loss. We weren't terrible, no individual was terrible but there were a few small reasons which combined to result in this loss.

You're slowly turning into the voice of reason on this forum.

People will somehow contrive everything to be about Wenger, misplaced passes, injuries, suspensions, strikers missing simple chances, referees missing penalties, linesmen disallowing goals that would have stood in any other match.

The truth was simple, we played no where near as well as we did againgst Cheksea in the Cup, some players were below par today but we were much better than Stoke and if there was any justice the game should have been at least a draw. The officiating was really poor and we squandered chances.

 

[Makingtrax]

This is going to be a toxic season. Any loss and the hate for Wenger will pour out like puss from a boil. Not sure I can stand to see it it. Like one of Stan's bloodsport movies unfolding every week.

 

[Cruisio]

Wenger really does enjoy a hard life. I have given up trying to understand what goes on in that head of his but Gerrard hit the nail on the head. We are easy to play against.

The line up

Personnel isn't a problem currently. I don't understand the argument of saying the squad needs 5 players. The same team was capable of beating City and Chelsea when it matters. That is precisely the prole, 'when it matters' is when Wenger determines it matters and it only matters in the latter stages stages of the cup or when we are losing our grip on fourth place.

It seems that he isn't concerned about games early on in the season. It's his time to experiment and do what he wants and put forward his own agenda. Bellerin being shoehorned is the last straw for me. Tim Stillman made out like Ox was shoehorned in and players were played out of position because of it. That doesn't make sense seeing as Ox is in better form and is more comfortable on the right. Whatever team Wenger put out should not have had Monreal as the central defender and Kolasinac as the left centre back. It should have been Mustafi-Mert-Monreal or Holding-Mustafi-Monreal.

Defensive play

Although a different back 3 would have prevented the goal, it still would have been exposed on the counter. When we build from the back we have 3 defenders, Xhaka drops deep to collect the ball and both wing backs push forward. That's fine, but my question is, why is Ramsey so far ahead of the ball at this point? Is there a need for him to be between the lines. We already have two players between the lines at this point. We simply do not play with a tactic without the ball. We hold an incredibly high line, but we don't press. We don't foul high up the pitch, we don't make tackles when we need to. Jese ran past 4 players at one point.

Welbeck

I like Welbeck. I think he can do a job on the wing and he can do a job up front vs weaker opposition, but he had a bad game yesterday. He takes too many touches on the ball, he never provides a cut back and he just doesn't see a pass. How can you play a player in a creative position who cannot provide an incisive pass. He is more concerned with keeping possession and will dribble away from goal to do so. Should have gone off for Giroud.

Lacazette

He had a bad touch in the area which made him miss, but he basically had 2 chances and buried one. I can't fault him other than that, but are we going to actually use him? I was watching him closely today and he is more than just a finisher. He can see a pass and he can create. He can also hold the ball under pressure. Why are we not passing the ball into him more? Why when players get to the byline are they going for goal instead of cutting it back to him.

Ramsey

I haven't played football for a while and this season I was hoping to play 11 aside every Sunday. Not a high standard, more for fitness and enjoyment. I used to be an attacking midfielder. I have since dropped back into a box to box or a 6 role depending on who I play with. That's the key for me. A massive part of central midfield is that it is a partnership. People can talk about the positions Ramsey gets into, but it is to the detriment of the team. Ramsey is a selfish player who if upgraded on would completely change this team. If you know Xhaka you know that he is slow and doesn't do well under pressure, so he needs a midfielder close to him. When Ramsey is there, if we lose the ball, nothing usually comes of it. However there are massive parts of the game where Xhaka receives the ball and Ramsey just runs ahead of him looking for the ball between the lines. That means that we have three number 10s instead of 2. Today it was a bad pass from Xhaka. On another day it could be a bad one from Koscielny or a really good interception. The fact is that Ramsey makes runs constantly and gets rewarded for it due to him basically playing as a striker, all the while putting us under pressure by his positioning. The two midfielders should be together. A pass should be made into one of the number 10s, they hold the ball and THEN the midfielder can break forward. Therfore if they can't hold the ball, we still have two protecting the back 3 as wing backs are committed.

Substitutions

What the hell? With the stupid line up that he put out. Take off Bellerin for Coquelin, take off Welbeck for Giroud. Play Giroud alongside Lacazette and Özil in behind. DO NOT take off Xhaka.

--------------------Cech
------Coquelin-Muastfi-Monreal
Ox--------Ramsey---Xhaka--Kola
--------------------Özil
----------Giroud-Lacazette

All in all, I have written off the season. We may make top four. We may win an fa cup, but Wenger is too much of a dinosaur tactically and just shoe horns too many players into the line up, plays players out of position, makes terrible substitutions and will not make the signings required. He makes it harder than it should be and it's only going to get harder.

Özil, Alexis, Wilshere and Ox will talk to other teams in January. We will lose all 4 on a free come the end of the season and Wenger will be here, with another year of will this be his last deal, trying to replace those players. I'm mentally preparing myself from now.

Excellent post and I couldn't agree more, especially the part about Wenger seemingly being open to experimenting at the start of the season.

I know it's a long campaign and a marathon and not a sprint etc etc, but who does he do this every year? Why before the window shuts are we seemingly always unprepared or not willing to play players in their natural positions? It boggles me the gambles this man likes taking. Is it to prove a point? Does he genuinely think it will work despite these gambles never paying off season after season? The guys got no plan, he's just freestyling and he's no longer a good enough manager to get away with it.

 

[Makingtrax]

Worse than Wenger's problems is the fact that Mourinho and Pep have now probably spent enough to buy there way to the title.

Anybody who thinks either of those two would have come to Arsenal on our budget is having a laugh.

Got to watch Mourinho's smug face pretending he's up there because of his skills as a manager, sickening.

 

[field442]

Wenger really does enjoy a hard life. I have given up trying to understand what goes on in that head of his but Gerrard hit the nail on the head. We are easy to play against.

The line up

Personnel isn't a problem currently. I don't understand the argument of saying the squad needs 5 players. The same team was capable of beating City and Chelsea when it matters. That is precisely the prole, 'when it matters' is when Wenger determines it matters and it only matters in the latter stages stages of the cup or when we are losing our grip on fourth place.

It seems that he isn't concerned about games early on in the season. It's his time to experiment and do what he wants and put forward his own agenda. Bellerin being shoehorned is the last straw for me. Tim Stillman made out like Ox was shoehorned in and players were played out of position because of it. That doesn't make sense seeing as Ox is in better form and is more comfortable on the right. Whatever team Wenger put out should not have had Monreal as the central defender and Kolasinac as the left centre back. It should have been Mustafi-Mert-Monreal or Holding-Mustafi-Monreal.

Defensive play

Although a different back 3 would have prevented the goal, it still would have been exposed on the counter. When we build from the back we have 3 defenders, Xhaka drops deep to collect the ball and both wing backs push forward. That's fine, but my question is, why is Ramsey so far ahead of the ball at this point? Is there a need for him to be between the lines. We already have two players between the lines at this point. We simply do not play with a tactic without the ball. We hold an incredibly high line, but we don't press. We don't foul high up the pitch, we don't make tackles when we need to. Jese ran past 4 players at one point.

Welbeck

I like Welbeck. I think he can do a job on the wing and he can do a job up front vs weaker opposition, but he had a bad game yesterday. He takes too many touches on the ball, he never provides a cut back and he just doesn't see a pass. How can you play a player in a creative position who cannot provide an incisive pass. He is more concerned with keeping possession and will dribble away from goal to do so. Should have gone off for Giroud.

Lacazette

He had a bad touch in the area which made him miss, but he basically had 2 chances and buried one. I can't fault him other than that, but are we going to actually use him? I was watching him closely today and he is more than just a finisher. He can see a pass and he can create. He can also hold the ball under pressure. Why are we not passing the ball into him more? Why when players get to the byline are they going for goal instead of cutting it back to him.

Ramsey

I haven't played football for a while and this season I was hoping to play 11 aside every Sunday. Not a high standard, more for fitness and enjoyment. I used to be an attacking midfielder. I have since dropped back into a box to box or a 6 role depending on who I play with. That's the key for me. A massive part of central midfield is that it is a partnership. People can talk about the positions Ramsey gets into, but it is to the detriment of the team. Ramsey is a selfish player who if upgraded on would completely change this team. If you know Xhaka you know that he is slow and doesn't do well under pressure, so he needs a midfielder close to him. When Ramsey is there, if we lose the ball, nothing usually comes of it. However there are massive parts of the game where Xhaka receives the ball and Ramsey just runs ahead of him looking for the ball between the lines. That means that we have three number 10s instead of 2. Today it was a bad pass from Xhaka. On another day it could be a bad one from Koscielny or a really good interception. The fact is that Ramsey makes runs constantly and gets rewarded for it due to him basically playing as a striker, all the while putting us under pressure by his positioning. The two midfielders should be together. A pass should be made into one of the number 10s, they hold the ball and THEN the midfielder can break forward. Therfore if they can't hold the ball, we still have two protecting the back 3 as wing backs are committed.

Substitutions

What the hell? With the stupid line up that he put out. Take off Bellerin for Coquelin, take off Welbeck for Giroud. Play Giroud alongside Lacazette and Özil in behind. DO NOT take off Xhaka.

--------------------Cech
------Coquelin-Muastfi-Monreal
Ox--------Ramsey---Xhaka--Kola
--------------------Özil
----------Giroud-Lacazette

All in all, I have written off the season. We may make top four. We may win an fa cup, but Wenger is too much of a dinosaur tactically and just shoe horns too many players into the line up, plays players out of position, makes terrible substitutions and will not make the signings required. He makes it harder than it should be and it's only going to get harder.

Özil, Alexis, Wilshere and Ox will talk to other teams in January. We will lose all 4 on a free come the end of the season and Wenger will be here, with another year of will this be his last deal, trying to replace those players. I'm mentally preparing myself from now.

Excellent post. Your description of Ramsey is spot on.

 

[Tywin]

Worse than Wenger's problems is the fact that Mourinho and Pep have now probably spent enough to buy there way to the title.

Anybody who thinks either of those two would have come to Arsenal on our budget is having a laugh.

Got to watch Mourinho's smug face pretending he's up there because of his skills as a manager, sickening.

He's up there because he won 2 trebles with Porto. He is a world class manager. Circus show aside he is world class.

 

[{reed}]

The difference is not so big as I thought, and we created best chances for our worst finishers, Welbeck and Ramsey.

 

[Makingtrax]

He's up there because he won 2 trebles with Porto. He is a world class manager. Circus show aside he is world class.

This has been done to death on here.

But last year he didn't do any better than LVG or Moyes in their first year, spending more (load more than Moyes)

Secondly no other manager in history has ever taken a Forbes top 10 rich team to the relegation zone, in any league.

Thirdly, he's spent more money than any other manager in history over £1billion to buy much of his later success.

So you can w*nk off to his videos, but just maybe he's not as good as you think. And remember in Wenger's early days he did pretty well too.

 

[bingobob]

What's your point?

That you talk ****e.

 

[bingobob]

This has been done to death on here.

But last year he didn't do any better than LVG or Moyes in their first year, spending more (load more than Moyes)

Secondly no other manager in history has ever taken a Forbes top 10 rich team to the relegation zone, in any league.

Thirdly, he's spent more money than any other manager in history over £1billion to buy much of his later success.

So you can w*nk off to his videos, but just maybe he's not as good as you think. And remember in Wenger's early days he did pretty well too.

He won the Uefa cup and Champions league back to back with Porto. Mourinho is a great manager.

Edit. I must have missed LVG and Moyes winning a European trophy in their first season at United. And winning the league cup to achieve a cup double.

 

[Jae]

People saying that the season is over or they are writing this year off after 1 loss

 

[progman07]

We have just sold a centre back because we have too many apparently, but we play two wingbacks in the middle.
We have three left backs in the squad, however we play a right back there.
We play an attacking midfielder at the right back position.

What's wrong with Wenger? Why do we have to create problems we don't have?

 

[FreakySami]

The problem is that Porto was investigated for bribery the years he was there...

 

[bingobob]

This is going to be a toxic season. Any loss and the hate for Wenger will pour out like puss from a boil. Not sure I can stand to see it it. Like one of Stan's bloodsport movies unfolding every week.

And for the second quote for yourself today. Hungover Bob said this is the life the club choose. The fan Base wants blood and rather than a sacrifice being made Stan decided to continue as we are. The fans can't be blamed. They have in significant numbers, since Wengers first Fa cup win this decade, articulated a need for change in management.

 

[Makingtrax]

He won the Uefa cup and Champions league back to back with Porto. Mourinho is a great manager.

Edit. I must have missed LVG and Moyes winning a European trophy in their first season at United. And winning the league cup to achieve a cup double.

And the papers are all creaming themselves over him this morning after two wins.

Forgot he had the richest team ever assembled in history and won the League Cup last year.

Funny how everybody loves to go back to his early days to show how great a manager he was before he spent his billions. But nobody ever uses that same argument for Wenger even though he gave up his chance to go to rich clubs for staying at Arsenal with crumbs to spend.

 

[bingobob]

The problem is that Porto was investigated for bribery the years he was there...

Investigated. Oh I forgot where that makes someone guilty. Next.

 

[Preacher]

 

[FreakySami]

Investigated. Oh I forgot where that makes someone guilty. Next.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...hampions-League-bribery-referees-2003-04.html

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2008/06/04/sports/04iht-socporto4.13467673.html

Next time you talk about something you don't know, do your research, sorry for not mentioning they got kicked out of the cl for it.

 

[Makingtrax]

Please don't keep posting this propaganda sh*t all year again. Surely it's enough that the officials are against us.

How does it help? There's a load of people with anger issues on here and you wind them and stay calm.

 

[Rimaal]

Spent the morning feeling rather disheartened and subdued and I had no idea why, then I remembered that I care about football - probably too much - and remembered what happened yesterday, and it dawned on me... I hate Wenger.

p.s.

Don't bother replying to this post, I won't be coming back to this thread.