Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[Makingtrax]

I’m with @razörist. He made the most incisive and dangerous passes in the Rennes game. 2 of which should have led to goals.

Can see why people complain because he doesn’t track back a lot, takes a while to get into the game and he’s virtually useless in the air . . but he covers huge swathes of ground, creates space with the ball, guards the ball well and makes some exquisite passes.

A lot of this boils down to what the rest of the team is like. He is a luxury player, but man, what a luxury. So if the rest of the team is quality, this guy is the icing on the cake. If the rest of the team has holes, then would the money be better spent elsewhere? That is the question.

 

[squallman]

I drew attention to where he ranked because you & @blaze_of_glory claimed that he does as much as anyone defensively, which is patently absurd.

The entire selection (data and ranking) is damning. It's a pretty complete picture of his defensive game and it's clear that he's not carrying his weight defensively. The only question with Mesut should be whether you think he should get a pass defensively because of his ability on the ball.

Aubemayang is the next biggest passenger, you're correct. However worth pointing out that, unless he's playing out wide, he'll spends most of the game on the CB's shoulder so not much scope for him to get stuck into challenges / intercept the ball.

Apologies for the aggression. Just does my head in when people make ludicrous claims about a player supported by half-baked stats. Still a bit traumatised by people trying to claim that Giroud was an elite striker and some of this Özil doublespeak is giving me flashbacks.

Also: Opta stats are behind a paywall, unfortunately (I get access through an organisation). If you have a precise request I can find it for you.

We agree on one thing at least, Giroud wasn't an elite striker. I wanted him gone after 6 months.

Damn on Opta, there is nothing in particular that I want. The same defence you use for Auba, I could use for Özil. He'll spend most of his time near the penalty box so not much scope for him to get stuck into challenges or intercept the ball.

Like I said I don't think the entire selection is damning, just the part about interceptions and aerial duels. Again its not like everyone else eclipses his defensive stats either apart from the aforementioned. Even with the aforementioned Iwobi isn't that much better when it comes to aerial duels.

My point, my only point was that people act as if we have a hard-working team of grafters but from those same stats you showed if Iwobi makes a tackle every 42 minutes and Özil every 44 minutes. Is that really a big world of difference? His tackling rate isn't bad either.

We're also only talking about half the equation. What do the others contribute in an attacking sense compared to Özil? When you take both sides into question, who contributes the most overall? There needs to be a balance, we're not Stoke City where we should be picking forwards based on who makes the most interceptions.

Every article that talks about Özil makes it sound like he does ZERO defensive work, that isn't true.

 

[say yes]

Why are we analyzing Özil like he’s a left back?

In summary: because Emery is said to think that Özil doesn't do enough defensively and @blaze_of_glory claims that's wrong because Özil is as involved defensively as anyone in our team (yeah ... )

 

[say yes]

We agree on one thing at least, Giroud wasn't an elite striker. I wanted him gone after 6 months.

Damn on Opta, there is nothing in particular that I want. The same defence you use for Auba, I could use for Özil. He'll spend most of his time near the penalty box so not much scope for him to get stuck into challenges or intercept the ball.

Like I said I don't think the entire selection is damning, just the part about interceptions and aerial duels. Again its not like everyone else eclipses his defensive stats either apart from the aforementioned. Even with the aforementioned Iwobi isn't that much better when it comes to aerial duels.

My point, my only point was that people act as if we have a hard-working team of grafters but from those same stats you showed if Iwobi makes a tackle every 42 minutes and Özil every 44 minutes. Is that really a big world of difference? His tackling rate isn't bad either.

We're also only talking about half the equation. What do the others contribute in an attacking sense compared to Özil? When you take both sides into question, who contributes the most overall? There needs to be a balance, we're not Stoke City where we should be picking forwards based on who makes the most interceptions.

Every article that talks about Özil makes it sound like he does ZERO defensive work, that isn't true.

I think the stats are pretty damning so we’ll have to agree to disagree there.

However, with regard to your final two paragraphs: I agree. I’ve known that Özil is poor defensively for years now but I’ve still defended and even idolised him at times because that’s not what his game is about.

Özil’s not in the side to make crunching tackles or chase opposition fullbacks. He’s there to link up our play and carve open the opposition when one of his teammates regains possession. That’s a position that I’m ok with people like @razörist and @Makingtrax still holding.

I (and presumably many others) have lost patience with Özil not because his game has changed, but because I feel as though he’s no longer delivering on his side of the bargain: he’s no longer having that elite offensive impact. He’s no longer tearing aside opposition defences like he used to. He’s no longer threatening to break assist records. He’s got something like two league assists in the last year ffs - that’s far more damning to me than any defensive stat.

It looks as though he’s declined significantly and what I abhor (and why I probably responded to your post earlier too aggressively) are posters who attempt to paper over the cracks of his attacking impact with disingenuous attempts to portray him as great defensively. Hes not a player you want on your team if you’re defending. He never has been, and he never will be. That hasn’t been too big a problem in his career until now because he has consistently delivered the goods in the other half. But it’s now going to be a millstone around his neck until (/ if) he can rediscover his attacking brilliance.

 

[GDeep™]

I know he does, I came across an article that showed he had better defensive stats than any other attacking midfielder at the club last season.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...ls-attacking-midfielders-on-defensive-duties/

Amazingly, Özil had a higher interception and a higher tackling rate last season than everyone's favourite grafter, Welbeck. Welbeck admittedly made more tackles this season according to the article.

In the name of balance here's the same site comparing Özil this season to last season. Defensive contribution is a short paragraph at the bottom.
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...r-league-stats-under-unai-emery-to-last-term/

His interception rate has dropped but tackling remains roughly the same.

An article on who runs the most in the Arsenal squad from the 2016/17 season. Özil was second.

https://www.dreamteamfc.com/c/news-...ut-Özil-stat-that-proves-hes-not-at-all-lazy/

For completion sake, Sky Sports has a more complete breakdown of the stats.

https://www.skysports.com/football/...fair-the-stats-on-his-arsenal-role-and-record

Per 90 minutes doesn't look good for Özil but he did run more than Sanchez who was lauded for his "Defensive contribution"

I thought Emery was a stats and analysis guy? The numbers don't lie, Özil does make a defensive contribution.

Also like I said, if running, tracking back and doing defensive work is going to be the be all end all, the likes of Guendouzi and Kolasinac don't deserve to start. One is supposed to be a DM and the other a defensive midfielder. Yet I have to watch the former stand back and let people run past him. Imagine if Özil did that.

EDIT:
The first link isn't working for some reason even though I copied and pasted the entire thing. Whatever. Just google "Özil defensive stats planetfootball" and it should come up.

But but hE DuzNt TrAK baK

 

[say yes]

But but hE DuzNt TrAK baK

Keep up Garry. The statistical approach has already been debunked.

 

[Jury]

It's like this thread was a thriving crack house and @say yes has raided it on his own, evicted all the crackheads, nailed the doors shut and boarded up the windows. Lovely stuff.

 

[GDeep™]

It's like this thread was a thriving crack house and @say yes has raided it on his own, evicted all the crackheads, nailed the doors shot and boarded up the windows. Lovely stuff.

More like @say yes is some burly no good bailiff who’s been met by resistance.

 

[Vinci]

It's pretty obvious that he doesn't have the same work ethic as Mkhi and therefore sits on the bench more.

You play him and hope he produces a few moments of magic that no one else can, sadly that has also been waning more and more.

 

[Makingtrax]

It's like this thread was a thriving crack house and @say yes has raided it on his own, evicted all the crackheads, nailed the doors shut and boarded up the windows. Lovely stuff.

Like a bad cold, this thread will keep on running. @say yes has just taken out his hanky and wiped away a few bogies.

 

[Jae]

You're focusing on where he ranks but look at the actual numbers. Özil's minute per tackle rate isn't that far off of Lacazette's or Iwobi's. In fact his tackling per minute is only 2 minutes worse than Iwobi's. His tackle % rate isn't that far off the other players either.

The only real damning stat is aerial duels and the two on interceptions, which are far off everyone else.

Aubameyang's stats aren't much better than Özil. Iwobi's aerial duel rate isn't fantastic.

Again Ramsey isn't an AM in my eyes.

Do you have a link to Opta's stats? I want to see the numbers for last season and the one before that to see if Özil's defensive stats have dropped according to Opta.

EDIT:

But thank you for those stats, you've been oddly aggressive about the entire thing but its been enlightening. My only point was that to say Özil does ZERO defensive work is false. There might be areas he has to work on but he does put in a tackle.

Mate, with the greatest of respect... Do yourself a favour and stop moving the goal posts in order to try and prove your point.

 

[squallman]

Mate, with the greatest of respect... Do yourself a favour and stop moving the goal posts in order to try and prove your point.

I don't call that moving the goal posts, just clarifying myself.

Nothing I said in that post was contradictory. I genuinely don't consider Ramsey an AM, he's mainly been deployed in a deeper role with a licence to get forward. I've even admitted when the statistics aren't in my favor instead of trying to twist them.

 

[arsenefc]

Özil is the heir to bergkamp ... an amazing talented player and great footballer.

There can be a million comments against him, but when I watch him play, there is never a doubt. I know he can never be a wingback, but thats okay by me.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Remember, the only stats that count are the ones you like.

 

[Jury]

Remember, the only stats that count are the ones you like.

You like all of them, though. You've said as much. You can't argue with numbers etc. I can argue against them, you can't

 

[A_G]

The only thing @blaze_of_glory likes more than stats is fake Einstein quotes.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

You like all of them, though. You've said as much. You can't argue with numbers etc. I can argue against them, you can't

The numbers back me up though. But those ones apparently don't count.

 

[Jury]

Most older fans have detested going from analogue to digital, but @blaze_of_glory has gone balls-deep. I bet his kettle doesn't whistle anymore. Probably got a blue light in the thing and boils water in 10 seconds. ****ing sellout.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Most older fans have detested going from analogue to digital, but @blaze_of_glory has gone balls-deep. I bet his kettle doesn't whistle anymore. Probably got a blue light in the thing and boils water in 10 seconds. ****ing sellout.

I like a holistic analogue approach based on years of experience supported by some cold hard data to upset the luddites.

My kettle is falling apart, if you have suggestions for quality models I'm open to them.

 

[Jury]

I like a holistic analogue approach based on years of experience supported by some cold hard data to upset the luddites.

My kettle is falling apart, if you have suggestions for quality models I'm open to them.

Just buy one in the $15-25 range and use a good filter. Less than that and you're better off using a saucepan.