Mikel Arteta: Managerial Royalty

[Riou]

Mate, that’s nothing compared to what I was called during 2015/16 for supporting Arsène. And not much of it in jest, even had a stalker at one point.

Wait...someone was stalking you, while you were stalking Arsène?

What are the odds!

 

[albakos]

Lastly football is too complex a game to make any type of Arsenal pre/post one individual metric but if you want to play that game then Xhaka’s being injured always cripples this team. The drop off between him and our 3rd best midfielder is enormous. Anyone who knows ball also knows that a midfielder is a lot more likely to influence a teams metrics than a forward that only contributes to the final phase of play.

And as it is very evident on few times when Xhaka was missing due to suspensions or small niggling injuries, we have a much worse/unstructured midfield when Xhaka is missing than we do with any other midfielders missing, even Partey.

 

[Riou]

Nah, still feel our team will kinda fall apart without Partey...losing Xhaka is a blow, but as long as Thomas is playing, we can manage without him to a degree.

We are a better side with Granit playing though, without doubt...fair play to him this season, playing well for us.

 

[Makingtrax]

You don't have to take my hyperbole fast writing so seriously about it. The point clearly was that Auba hasn't been good, and Martinelli has been better in my post to which Kav replied. Also that Laca has been better than Auba for us recently.

Very basic stuff and easy to agree on for objective watchers, but surely not Arteta Outers.

Mate, there are no Arteta Outers. It’s all in your mind.

Arteta is just a very inexperienced manager trying to find his way. He’s been given more time than he would have at another top 6 club and more money than anybody expected. And finally he’s hit on some tactics and players that are working for him. Just about everybody on here thinks he should get an extension if he gets top 4 and hopes he can push on further.

Just because people can see his flaws and don’t believe there ever was a hyped up ‘process’ , doesn’t mean they want him out. He’s clearly learning, let’s see where he goes next.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Mate, there are no Arteta Outers. It’s all in your mind.

Arteta is just a very inexperienced manager trying to find his way. He’s been given more time than he would have at another top 6 club and more money than anybody expected. And finally he’s hit on some tactics and players that are working for him. Just about everybody on here thinks he should get an extension if he gets top 4 and hopes he can push on further.

Just because people can see his flaws and don’t believe there ever was a hyped up ‘process’ , doesn’t mean they want him out. He’s clearly learning, let’s see where he goes next.

I think you are selling him a bit short here. To me it seems clear that he has a very focused view on what he wants. I do not think "he's hit on some tactics and players"

He'll need to learn to be more subtle and flexible, but I think one of his strengths is that he has a determined view on how he wants us to play, and the players needed to make it work.

By the way, it was about time the owners and the board understood that you need to invest in the squad if you want to be successful.

 

[Riou]

People really need to ignore all the weird articles from The Athletic (which doesn't even feel like a real publication anymore, more a Arteta Fan Club if anything now ) and just try to enjoy the matches.

 

[drippin]

What's funny with all the Xhaka love now is how everyone (apart from like me, Erlis and maybe Tanefruit?) seemed to think keeping him was a mistake, and many during the season that Sambi is better option than him already.

Arteta got hate for keeping Xhaka and preferring him. Now that people need to praise Xhaka so Auba's bad tenure here this season wouldn't look like his fault at all, they are willing to praise Xhaka to the roof.

Not realizing that they at the same time praise Arteta for keeping him, and even playing him in a more advanced position.

 

[El Duderino]

What's funny with all the Xhaka love now is how everyone (apart from like me, Erlis and maybe Tanefruit?) seemed to think keeping him was a mistake, and many during the season that Sambi is better option than him already.

Arteta got hate for keeping Xhaka and preferring him. Now that people need to praise Xhaka so Auba's bad tenure here this season wouldn't look like his fault at all, they are willing to praise Xhaka to the roof.

Not realizing that they at the same time praise Arteta for keeping him, and even playing him in a more advanced position.

How does it feel to be right all the time, mate?

Must be a trip!

 

[drippin]

How does it feel to be right all the time, mate?

Must be a trip!

I'm not right all the time. But much more than the haters claim here, who say for example that I'm the worst poster on the forum.

 

[Macho]

Nah, still feel our team will kinda fall apart without Partey...losing Xhaka is a blow, but as long as Thomas is playing, we can manage without him to a degree.

lol I dunno man, we've seen the team without Xhaka and it wasn't good lol. The team without Partey we've seen loads of times.

Until January this season I actually couldn't take Partey seriously for a long time not even going to lie.

All I know is without the both of them there, Arsenal's starting 11 quickly becomes a U23 team.

 

[dka1]

What's funny with all the Xhaka love now is how everyone (apart from like me, Erlis and maybe Tanefruit?) seemed to think keeping him was a mistake, and many during the season that Sambi is better option than him already.

Arteta got hate for keeping Xhaka and preferring him. Now that people need to praise Xhaka so Auba's bad tenure here this season wouldn't look like his fault at all, they are willing to praise Xhaka to the roof.

Not realizing that they at the same time praise Arteta for keeping him, and even playing him in a more advanced position.

You need to stop looking at this from an pro Arteta vs against Arteta pov. Also if Game of Thrones has taught me anything it's that the world isn't so black and white.

It's shades of grey and everything in between, I'm not sure why you're trying to reduce the argument to such basic factors because all of the following can occur:

- It's possible to feel that we should've sold Xhaka in the summer, but crucially replaced him with a player that can fulfill his role better

- But then it's also possible to admit that actually he's really important to us and whilst not perfect, is good at his role and therefore it was good to keep him (atleast until we can replace him properly).

Who cares if Arteta "gets praise" for it, like that's not what is running through my head when I'm thinking that Xhaka is an important part of our midfield

- It's also possible to not have rated Arteta at the start of the season but have changed your mind as the season has progressed

- It's possible to be unhappy about the Auba situation but still rate the manager, it's not mutually exclusive and it worries me when some people can't divorce their praise of the manager from the decisions he makes (positive or negative)

I could elaborate more but I think you get the point.

 

[drippin]

You need to stop looking at this from an pro Arteta vs against Arteta pov. Also if Game of Thrones has taught me anything it's that the world isn't so black and white.

It's shades of grey and everything in between, I'm not sure why you're trying to reduce the argument to such basic factors because all of the following can occur:

- It's possible to feel that we should've sold Xhaka in the summer, but crucially replaced him with a player that can fulfill his role better

- But then it's also possible to admit that actually he's really important to us and whilst not perfect, is good at his role and therefore it was good to keep him (atleast until we can replace him properly).

Who cares if Arteta "gets praise" for it, like that's not what is running through my head when I'm thinking that Xhaka is an important part of our midfield

- It's also possible to not have rated Arteta at the start of the season but have changed your mind as the season has progressed

- It's possible to be unhappy about the Auba situation but still rate the manager, it's not mutually exclusive and it worries me when some people can't divorce their praise of the manager from the decisions he makes (positive or negative)

I could elaborate more but I think you get the point.

And you need to realize I'm just bantering the Arteta and Xhaka haters.

Yes those things are possible.

 

[Makingtrax]

I think you are selling him a bit short here. To me it seems clear that he has a very focused view on what he wants. I do not think "he's hit on some tactics and players"

He'll need to learn to be more subtle and flexible, but I think one of his strengths is that he has a determined view on how he wants us to play, and the players needed to make it work.

By the way, it was about time the owners and the board understood that you need to invest in the squad if you want to be successful.

His first season using Unai’s squad his tactics were fairly balanced between attack and defence and he won the FA Cup. He started off his second season acquiring older players and changed to a deep defensive setup hoping to catch teams on the counter. His form was patchy to say the least, coming 8th again. His 3rd season saw him buying very young players and he slowly transitioned to an attacking side with the back line now much higher. You think all this was his plan from the outset?

I’m not criticising him here, he’s very driven, almost obsessed like Arsène. Switching things around is the hallmark of someone learning, and brave enough to put new ideas into practice. And it’s come good. But I’m not for one minute sold on this ‘process’ BS.

The only process as such, was probably KSE telling him to thin out a very bloated squad, even if it meant giving players away.

 

[ThePortugueseGunner]

You said this. And yes I think it's ridiculous. It's the ridiculousness that makes me react with "arrogance", because my mind is baffled on what I read.

Then let me tell you that it takes little to baffle your mind, buddy.

Cheers.

 

[drippin]

Then let me tell you that it takes little to baffle your mind, buddy.

Cheers.

Only thing going down the drain if we don't finish 4th is your brain.

I would understand if a United fan says everything will go down the drain if they don't finish 4th, because they have invested a lot in this season to try for the title and UCL, and will lose important players for free, like Pogba. And they need a rebuild, again.

But no, with us everything won't go down the drain if we don't finish 4th. Our young squad has grown together, players adjusted to EPL and our game has improved all the time which will continue next season.

Maybe now you understand why your words were so ridiculous to me.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

His first season using Unai’s squad his tactics were fairly balanced between attack and defence and he won the FA Cup. He started off his second season acquiring older players and changed to a deep defensive setup hoping to catch teams on the counter. His form was patchy to say the least, coming 8th again. His 3rd season saw him buying very young players and he slowly transitioned to an attacking side with the back line now much higher. You think all this was his plan from the outset?

I’m not criticising him here, he’s very driven, almost obsessed like Arsène. Switching things around is the hallmark of someone learning, and brave enough to put new ideas into practice. And it’s come good. But I’m not for one minute sold on this ‘process’ BS.

The only process as such, was probably KSE telling him to thin out a very bloated squad, even if it meant giving players away.

Well, using the term "he's hit on some tactics" made you sound like "he's making it up as he goes along". I think we both know that he has more to him than that. I might have misinterpreted you.

I do think the club has changed its approach to transfers. It is clear we are looking to players with resale value, young players with experience. That is a good thing in my view. I hope we'll stick to this approach in the main come the summer.

 

[samspade]

His first season using Unai’s squad his tactics were fairly balanced between attack and defence and he won the FA Cup. He started off his second season acquiring older players and changed to a deep defensive setup hoping to catch teams on the counter. His form was patchy to say the least, coming 8th again. His 3rd season saw him buying very young players and he slowly transitioned to an attacking side with the back line now much higher. You think all this was his plan from the outset?

I’m not criticising him here, he’s very driven, almost obsessed like Arsène. Switching things around is the hallmark of someone learning, and brave enough to put new ideas into practice. And it’s come good. But I’m not for one minute sold on this ‘process’ BS.

The only process as such, was probably KSE telling him to thin out a very bloated squad, even if it meant giving players away.

I agree with some of this post but I still don’t understand how you come to the conclusion it’s not a process.

We’ve had this discussion before but the fact people learn and grow together and are also influenced by training programmes means there’s always a process of change going on that a good manager has the power to effect. The process could be bad if the ideas and regimen are bad.

Dagestani wrestling, the danaher death squad, New Zealand rugby, jack grealish at city, mane and salah at pool are all evidence of the influence of a training programme on individuals.

Mate, If you’ve got a good manager in charge he’s gonna know how to set up training and drilling to improve his players and add things to their games. He’s also going to know how invest to improve the training environment and the overall ceiling of the squad.

Surely every manager is in charge of a process that has to be given time if the ideas are good?

 

[Kav]

Pitiful man putting red cards to all my posts in this thread, and thinking he can argue that I was wrong while choosing some convinient time frame and stats per appearance, which is one of the worst ways to compare players.

Did you know that Martinelli was injured for the first part of last season? Wonder why you chose the whole of last season for comparison, when I only said that Auba was **** for a long time and Martinelli has been better?

But yeah, let's look at when Martinelli was totally recovered and started playing more a year ago, 21st March 2021. In EPL according to Transfermarkt from that date until the end of the season, Martinelli played 377 minutes with 2+1, so a point per 126 minutes. In the same timeframe Auba played 484 minutes and also got 2+1, which is a point per 161 minutes.

This season Martinelli has played 1253 minutes in EPL, with 5+3, so a point per 157 minutes. Auba had 1150 minutes in EPL, with 4+1, so a point per 230 minutes.

(Just for reference, Auba had something like a point per 120-130 minutes in total in his time here.)

So you can see that looking at point per minute, rather than point per "match" (which is just stupid) we can see how much better Martinelli has been in scoring and assisting per minute. Which takes into account real playing time, not imaginary.

I think it's also obvious whoever has compared Martinelli and Auba play for us, that Martinelli has been better in most things recently for our team play. So it's not even only about points.

One thing to note is also that this season Auba has played almost all games as a striker, while Martinelli has played as a winger. It's also almost the same situation during the comparison time period last season.

So yeah, I wonder who is the fool here. Didn't even have the balls to reply to my post or tag me when arguing to me.

Had it even dawned on your little brain that the team has been playing more progressively since December and that Aubameyang has not been given an opportunity to participate in those games?

Did you also seemingly forget that earlier in the season (first 10 games) the team was barely averaging 4 shots on target and that Aubameyang’s touch map was pitiful. This was not coincidence but rather design. You speak out of your ass and never look at the actual games.

Without a doubt Martinelli has been a revelation and one of our bright spots since December but to suggest that Aubameyang had been trash and martinelli great is surely hyperbolic. Aubameyang had been poor that is agreed but he’s still better than all our forwards. I deliberately didn’t go into 19/20 season because your argument would have no weight then. Then again none of them ever do.

Man also falsely states that Aubameyang was playing as striker when we all know he was playing LW or wide forward had he been playing striker then why was he constantly tracking back to LW?

Man is using point system to make his argument when the world uses goals and assist. Tells me all I need to know about the strength of your argument, strong as a slushy.

 

[Trilly]

Me and @Trilly passing the ball around in midfield like a peak Xavi and Iniesta:

That’s how we pass certain mans gyal around too but let’s not go there

 

[drippin]

Had it even dawned on your little brain that the team has been playing more progressively since December and that Aubameyang has not been given an opportunity to participate in those games?

Did you also seemingly forget that earlier in the season (first 10 games) the team was barely averaging 4 shots on target and that Aubameyang’s touch map was pitiful. This was not coincidence but rather design. You speak out of your ass and never look at the actual games.

Without a doubt Martinelli has been a revelation and one of our bright spots since December but to suggest that Aubameyang had been trash and martinelli great is surely hyperbolic. Aubameyang had been poor that is agreed but he’s still better than all our forwards. I deliberately didn’t go into 19/20 season because your argument would have no weight then. Then again none of them ever do.

Man is using point system to make his argument when the world uses goals and assist. Tells me all I need to know about the strength of your argument, strong as a slushy.

Yeah, thought so. You couldn't prove I was wrong like you claimed first.

Points is the same as goals and assists combined you dimwittedtwat. Besides it's still you who used silly stats based on appearances to prove your point.

I'll put you on ignore soon, so people don't have to read our arguments.