A lone striker's accountability

[progman07]

Robin hasn't been on the top of his game obviously, that's why I opened this thread. I'm very interested in people's opinion on this matter.


Just how much can a lone striker be blamed, if he is off-form?


Robin is playing up front, in a position where your job is to score goals (he is doing that though, last 11 away games - 10 goals). You can only score goals, if you get the right service. This isn't a midfield position, where you control the game, being a striker means you are mostly dependant on others to create chances for you. No striker will always score his first chance, you cannot really expect that, some people thugh would - maybe rightly so - expect Robin to use his rare chances better.

Ramsey, Rosicky and co. are a huge step back from Cesc, who has been providing Robin with great passes, we also used to control the game so the ball reached Robin a lot more often.

Now our midfield is shambles, Robin's performance dropped, but is it really his fault?


What can a striker do without service? Especially a lone striker, who has got two defenders at minimum marking him, and if nobody is helping him, nobody is providing him balls, there is not much he can do, not even if he is Eto'o.



So do you blame Robin for his bad form, or do you share my opinion that he is the victim of the bad service? How much can a striker be held accountable, when he isn't getting any help from the other attackers?

 

[fabo]

He's not playing well atm, that much is clear. Regardless of help, he is missing chances, poor movement, general play is sloppy.

His interview was a good watch though, honest and respectful. Robin will come good.

Actually I think that right now we should be using the formation United currently are, a 4-4-2/4-4-1-1. We are feeling no benefits from playing a 3 man midfield.

 

[HollandGooner]

He does get bad services, and its getting noticed when Cesc left us, and we arent going to find a solution. RVP looks like a isolated player upfront.

 

[AFCG7]

He needs a world class striking partner, playing him on his own up front is going to be useless this season because he is going to get piss poor service.

 

[Kain]

Not as worried about RVP as most other positions and players in the team as of now. Van Persie is professional, and a fairly genuine supporter of the club, he always wanted to play here. The only major concern is both injuries & the depth of the quality behind him.

During final third of last season he was in blistering form but that was also when the likes of Nasri had gone off the boil & Fabregas was more often than not injured (as hindsight will tell us having his mind elsewhere), yet Robin was still storming the front line like a one man army even when service to him was of low standards, Wilshere was fatigued then too, & most of the squad had given up.

Of course he is not going to be impressed by current events and the turmoil the club finds itself in, It was RVP who hauled Chamakh, Arshavin & Rosicky’s sorry asses back out to the away fans yesterday evening, and it’s him making the speech on Arsenal.com trying to rally the troops.

I’d be more worried if he just stone-face lied and said everything was fine in the camp, which it clearly isn’t.

A couple of top class players helping him out up top wouldn’t really go a miss, get one of the Dutch international players into the team with him, they’re all quality players, something he can work with.

Often seen the complaints that we’re are/were a one man team, that we can only play one way (which is kinda true) this new batch can mix it up a little with the right additions if we just rely solely on RVP or one player we’re going to be constantly dreading his next injury, RVP is better as a cog in the machine, he can supply and finish moves as good if not better than the lump sum of strikers out there. Any striker would struggle in our current system with our random attacks even our past legends like Henry & Bergkamp.

 

[Yousif Arsenal]

of course he has been poor cuz the playmakers behind him are so poor, what do you except rvp do score goals? if he get so poor service when we have fabregas and wilshere behind rvp, you see rvp playing so well but today we have ramsey and rozza behind him and they dont give him service.

 

[DK Gooner]

While service has been an issue, the ineffectiveness of RVP in the lone striking role this term is partly down to his own poor form as well.

Outlaw posted this in another thread and I have to concur.

This is precisely it. Let's get something straight, Robin has been poor this season without a doubt, but he's quite obviously one of the players that is suffering most from our current team. We've known certain facts about him for years which should make one realise why he's struggling so much. One of those being that he's not very clinical. He's always missed many chances, and his first and only prolonged run of consistent goalscoring form came earlier this year at the age of 27, and for only 5 months, no less. Today was a typical day for him where he'd miss a couple of important chances, but then pitch in with one later on in the game.

He's also never been one to carry the team to victory on a consistent basis, especially when his two best spells of form (08/09 and 10/11) coincided with the team under performing. Robin is a player who needs close support, and he's going to suffer for as long is he's not provided with it. Has everyone already forgotten the 2008 World Cup where Robin cut a forlorn figure as the Dutch failed to cater to his strengths, or his performances against the likes of Barcelona where he was an isolated and largely ineffective figure?

RVP makes the same moves every time regardless of the type of ball that is likely to be played into the box i.e the drop back towards the penalty spot hoping for the pull back. He is not economical with the chances he gets and his finishing often belies his supposed ball striking talent.

As a lone striker, there are times when you expect to be isolated and uninvolved with the game, but in a game of XI vs XI you need everyone to contribute meaningfully at some point. RVP did not drop back to help when our midfield was being overrun, nor did he trouble their defenders half as much as Wellbeck did down the other end. I admire RVPs passion for the club, but that should not detract from his lack of form any more than the poor performance of the usual targets.

The way we play 4-3-3 is heavily dependent on RVP in that all other offensive roles are configured around the way RVP plays as a CF. He is a link player more so than a genuine goal threat. When he fails to involve himself more like at OT yesterday, we lose creativity and a means to release our WFs as goal threats. At the very least yesterday, he should have adapted his role to try and carry a more offensive threat when it became apparent that Theo was being hard pressed to defend as well (Arshavin as well, but his performance does not need elaborating on). RVP did not trouble their backline sufficiently and rarely made himself a viable target for our few attacking forays. Leadership after the game is one thing, but during the game is another.

 

[ibby]

Accountability and Arsenal don't belong in the same sentence. Just look at the dross that have failed Arsenal over the past few years, the majority of them either get dream moves, improved contracts and/or guaranteed starting places.

Playing for Arsenal has to be the easiest job in the world.

 

[progman07]

Accountability and Arsenal don't belong in the same sentence. Just look at the dross that have failed Arsenal over the past few years, the majority of them either get dream moves, improved contracts and/or guaranteed starting places.

Playing for Arsenal has to be the easiest job in the world.

That doesn't belong to this thread. I meant in the sense that what fans think about it, not what the club thinks.

If I wanted to open another "**** off Wenger/board" thread, I'd have said so, but nope.

 

[The Sleeper]

He doesn't cut the mustard as a lone striker, consistently enough.

These are some of the reasons I see:

1. He has ordinary pace.
2. He has ordinary strength.
3. He has ordinary height/jumping.
4. He has an ordinary workrate.
5. Because of the above, he requires PERFECT through balls ("lesser quality" strikers make do with less). And there aren't as many perfect through balls anymore with Cesc gone.
6. Even when he gets them, in too many games he requires too many chances to score. Newcastle could/should have been 0-3 to us.
7. His first touch fails him miserably in some games. Otherwise excellent. I've never seen such disparity in another player.
8. He OBVIOUSLY hates not being as involved in the play, and his body language changes pretty soon in matches for lack of this.

Robin was at his best after scoring against Udinese, when he practically abandoned the central striking role and free roled everywhere, getting involved in the team's passing. He rediscovered his mojo temporarily.

The insistence on continuing to play him in the structure we are employing at present is hurting our team, and him. He needs a role that's somewhere between AMC and SS. Even more so now he is captain.

Or we can keep playing him in that role, and keep bemoaning either his lack of form or the lack of quality service to him.


"So do you blame Robin for his bad form, or do you share my opinion that he is the victim of the bad service?"

It is both things.


"How much can a striker be held accountable, when he isn't getting any help from the other attackers?"

Wenger is the one accountable, for not acting to change things around a bit.

 

[Anzac]

IMO it's the difference in playing an attack with goal scoring roles or not.

Since going to the lone striker that role has been both the linking forward / false 9 AND primary goal scorer as the furtherest forward. Our WFs are still more akin to AM/Wingers than genuine wide forwards looking to attack the area to score.

This season we've signed pace & more direct players in the WF positions, but they still tend to start from behind the lone striker & our ball transition / service is still too slow.

 

[outlaw_member]

He doesn't cut the mustard as a lone striker, consistently enough.

These are some of the reasons I see:

1. He has ordinary pace.
2. He has ordinary strength.
3. He has ordinary height/jumping.
4. He has an ordinary workrate.
5. Because of the above, he requires PERFECT through balls ("lesser quality" strikers make do with less). And there aren't as many perfect through balls anymore with Cesc gone.
6. Even when he gets them, in too many games he requires too many chances to score. Newcastle could/should have been 0-3 to us.
7. His first touch fails him miserably in some games. Otherwise excellent. I've never seen such disparity in another player.
8. He OBVIOUSLY hates not being as involved in the play, and his body language changes pretty soon in matches for lack of this.

Robin was at his best after scoring against Udinese, when he practically abandoned the central striking role and free roled everywhere, getting involved in the team's passing. He rediscovered his mojo temporarily.

The insistence on continuing to play him in the structure we are employing at present is hurting our team, and him. He needs a role that's somewhere between AMC and SS. Even more so now he is captain.

Or we can keep playing him in that role, and keep bemoaning either his lack of form or the lack of quality service to him.


"So do you blame Robin for his bad form, or do you share my opinion that he is the victim of the bad service?"

It is both things.


"How much can a striker be held accountable, when he isn't getting any help from the other attackers?"

Wenger is the one accountable, for not acting to change things around a bit.

Regarding number 7., I've always found that very odd about him. He clearly has great technique, but there are many occasions where he struggles to get the ball out of his feet. I wonder if his technique is too good, at times. I also agree entirely that Robin needs to be dropped deeper, and he needs options ahead of him. Another potential mistake which Wenger will undoubtedly commit which has nothing to do with money.

 

[clockwork orange]

Everybody is accountable for their own performance, so also the lone striker.

First of all Robin certainly isn't in prime shape, so he didn't make the most of the opportunities. Of course it's easier to become in top shape again, when everybody around you is doing what they're supposed to do.

Having said that it's not like he's the victim of tactical decisions (like sometimes when he plays for Holland). At the moment with us, he's mainly suffering from poor team performances in general. Sometimes overlooked when a pass to him is on, or he gets the ball passed to him in a way that makes it harder to deliver. His own poor form and the team's poor form have a synergetic (negative) effect. Let's hope for some positive synergy when team form (maybe helped by some signings) and his own form improve.

 

[RobinVanPersie]

What we see at the moment is the same that we see with Robin in the Dutch national team. Robin can be a good striker when he gets enough support like with Cesc at Arsenal or v.d Vaart/Afellay at the Dutch national team. If he has individually players like Arshavin, Walcott, Robben and Sneijder behind him, he's useless. He's getting frustrated and that makes his performances even worser.

Stop playing Robin as a striker if we haven't got the right players behind him. Go back to 4-4-2/4-4-1-1 with Robin in the Bergkamp role. That's his best position.

I said it already last year...I miss the real Robin.

 

[qs]

He's in a run of poor form, he'll come out of it.

I don't think its got much to do with service though. He's squandered plenty of good opportunities his team mates have set up for him in the last 2 weeks.

 

[Jury]

In short, he's a shadow of the explosive player we used to have.

It's testament to his talent that he can still score goals for us, and is still a high class player. I think he's lost much of his physical capability and his mojo as a result.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Play him behind another striker and this poor form will miraculously improve imo.

I agree that he is more suited to an AM/SS role rather than a point man in a 4-3-3, which I would expect to suit a Drogba type player far more.

 

[abz_14]

How about having him play in the hole with Gervinho and Theo as interchangebale strikers? Similar to this-

DEFENCE
MIDFIELD THREE
RvP
THEO GERVINHO

Would mean he would be involved more in the play and can maybe take a bit of the creative side off Ramsey/Wilshere??

 

[DJ_Markstar]

How about having him play in the hole with Gervinho and Theo as interchangebale strikers? Similar to this-

DEFENCE
MIDFIELD THREE
RvP
THEO GERVINHO

Would mean he would be involved more in the play and can maybe take a bit of the creative side off Ramsey/Wilshere??

Could work, but without genuinely good attacking fullbacks it will be laboured and predictable - even worse than when we had Cesc in the team. I would favour a shift to a 4-4-1-1 with RvP behind a striker and two actual wingers who provide width...But that won't happen now...

 

[hesham]

I've been think it might actually or somthing similar, with the talk of M'vila & Santos coming in AW could be planning on going back to the old formation

M'vila - Frimpong for me is the next person to break in to our team and there's no way AW would kill his chances, if we were to get M'vila I see us going back have 2 DM in a 4231 maybe

To do this we would be quite narrow and need our fullbacks to support the attack, hence why were bringing in Santos.

The front 4 interchanging, with Walcott getting some time upfront.