CL| Napoli v Arsenal, 11/12, 7.45pm, SS1

[WengerFaithful]

When the groups where made we would have all taken at least 2nd - agreed 100% but the cold hard facts are that going into this game we had the chance which was in our own hands to finish top and avoid the giants of European Football who before we kicked off yesterday had nearly all confirmed that they would be finishing top and needed to be avoided.

Three years in a row now going into the last game of the group matches we have failed to top the group only to pay the price by drawing Bayern etc.

They made a right balls of this and Wenger is to squarely blame.

 

[Tourbillion]

I'm vexed and aghast about how events transpired.

Even Thierry Henry was befuddled enough to ask Wenger why Walcott wasn't starting, but to not play him at all is unforgivable given the circumstances and really makes me question whether Wenger has any common sense.

We're playing a team desperate for goals, why not play the fastest player in world football to hit them on the counter attack?

He's on the bench you say, why not bring him on sometime during the game to achieve the same effect?

I'm honestly at a loss for words, Wenger's logic was remedial tonight.

He set us up to play for a draw yet he kept Özil - who has virtually no defensive attributes - on the pitch for 90 exhausting minutes. Why not keep him fresh for the City game and instead utilize a player who would better serve our stupid gameplan of trying to avoid defeat without going for victory?

We're starting to look how we did during the early stages of last season when we had zero penetration and couldn't carve out anything resembling a chance.

What the hell has happened to Gnabry?

He's a winger with pace who would stretch defenders and offer us something other than our redundant exchanges in midfield with no probing or direction, we're completely stagnant.

Starting to really worry about our midfield, its looked genius at times this season but it's gotten stale now. We have the personnel and talent available which would give us another dimension yet Wenger for some deranged reason refuses to use them.

I'm stunned and extremely worried, our season could start to unravel very swiftly.

Fantastic post and I agree with everything you said. I am also very worried about our season now; two extremely disappointing results in a row followed by City away as soon as Saturday lunchtime.

I am perplexed by the Gnabry situation - where is the kid? He is not only fast, he's a genuine goal threat and has skills.

 

[The_Playmaker]

It doesn't matter if we become unseeded. It doesn't matter who we have in our group, it doesn't matter who we face in the round of 16.

We have one style of play. We don't consider who we are facing, we don't change the way we play for anyone. Whether they are Man City, Stoke or Real Madrid, we will play exactly the same way without any consideration of stopping the oppositions strengths.

I don't care if Chelsea won the Champions League through luck of the draw. We are not Chelsea, we have different principles. We do not simply try to win the game in any way we can. We will not defend for 3 rounds of a competition in order to win it.

It isn't about just winning at Arsenal. The sooner you realize that the better. It is about winning the beautiful way. It is about winning with football. It is about being remembered. I am not so desperate for my club to win something to sacrifice the way we play and hope for the luck of the draw.


03/04

Won the group group, we lost in the Quarters to Chelsea.

04/05

Won the group, went out in the last 16 to BAYERN.

05/06

Won the group, met JUVENTUS, then REAL MADRID before losing to the final.

06/07

Won the group, lost to PSV in round of 16.

07/08

Came second, beat MILAN in the next round and then lost to LIVERPOOL in the quarters.

08/09

Came second, beat ROMA, VILLAREAL and then lost in the Semi's to MAN UNITED.

09/10

Won the group, beat PORTO then lost to BARCELONA

10/11

Came 2nd, lost to BARCELONA in last 16.

11/12

Won the group, lost to MILAN in last 16.

12/13

Came 2nd, lost to BAYERN in last 16.


Can you see a pattern, because I can't. It doesn't matter what you do as long as you qualify because from then on if you play well enough you can get to the final. If you don't then you don't deserve to. We are an exception. We play a particular style, so if we play well in each round we will progress to the final.

You can easily say Chelsea did this and that but we are not Chelsea. There is no reason to panic if we finish second or if we become unseeded.

In the last 10 years we have won the group SIX times and gone out in the last 16 3 times even after winning the group. The time we went to the final we still had JUVENTUS in the last 16.

That means we have come second FOUR times and gone out in the last 16 twice. You cannot simply go by the last two years. You need to look further back.

History shows that more often that not it doesn't matter whether you finish top or second. We have finished top and still met the likes of JUVENTUS, MILAN and BAYERN. We won the group and progressed to the final with an incredibly hard path.

We do not have to fear anyone in the next round as we are capable of beating all of them. If we lose then we deserve to go out because we were simply not good enough.

 

[juice man]

Beauty post playmaker. Everyone is making way too much of finishing second in the group.

 

[TheLoneFalcon]

Ah the exuberance of youth.

 

[Johnny_Blaze]

It's a nice thought, but Arsenal haven't demonstrated any ability to beat a major Champions League team over two legs since Milan in 2008, which will soon have been six years ago.

I'd have preferred an easy route to the final that Man Utd had in 10/11, or even an easy run to the semis like we had a few years back.

 

[Jury]

History is of no relevance anyway.

We had our own reasons for wanting to finish first, and they were the exact same ones that those of you are now playing down

The likelihood is that this will not work out in our favour. It's as simple as that.

 

[mo50]

That bravado is all well and good from the Playmaker, but it's completely nonsense. Give me an easy draw in the round of 16 any day of the week. Make one of the competitors play Dortmund and if we get a lucky draw in the QF, anything can happen from then on.

Now we'll probably draw Madrid/Bayern and get our asses handed to us. There is not a single positive thing from finishing second and people who try to paint it any other way get on my nerves. It was a sh*t result and a sh*t team selection last night. Let's not sugarcoat it.

 

[Caz19]

That bravado is all well and good from the Playmaker, but it's completely nonsense. Give me an easy draw in the round of 16 any day of the week. Make one of the competitors play Dortmund and if we get a lucky draw in the QF, anything can happen from then on.

Now we'll probably draw Madrid/Bayern and get our asses handed to us. There is not a single positive thing from finishing second and people who try to paint it any other way get on my nerves. It was a sh*t result and a sh*t team selection last night. Let's not sugarcoat it.

Bayern maybe, but I honestly dont think Madrid would "hand our asses to us" They're very vulnerable defensivey, and though Ronaldo and Bale are ridiculously good players, they aren't gods and they can be stopped if everyone is focused.

I really dont think any team can hand our asses to us. We're good enough defensively that we can at the very worst case scenario just play with 10 behind the ball and punt the ball up to Theo.

 

[eye4goal]

Could've done with an easy tie. We've had a tough group and have just drawn Sp**s in the FA cup. February is very tough in the league and now we've just made it harder. Chelsea and Utd on the other hand will be very happy as they've avoided Dortmund now.

Previous years are different to this one. The gap between 1st and second placed team is massive this time.

 

[Penn_]

Forget to mention how solid Mertsacker and Kos looked together last night, if the rest of the team or even Gibbs and Jenkinson where on their level we would or won or at least kept a clean sheet.

 

[redanddread]

I, like most was surprised by Theo's omission last night but maybe things went tits up at the wrong time - we played a great 1st half and did what was absolutely necessary-don't concede. However, our tentativeness and willing ness to play for the Nil-Nil from minute 45+ on was totally not our style. We played an alien game in that 2nd half.

Two things that might be of importance in determining Theo's absence were the absence of Sagna and also the time of their 1st goal coupled with Arteta's almost immediate red card. Them scoring and Arteta being sent off meant that Arsène had to shore up things just to make sure the unthinkable didn't happen. Jenks is still a bit raw and maybe Le Boss didn;t want to risk having both Theo and Jenks on the RHS, furthermore, the success of Theo is largely built around a penetrating RB, who can perform on both sides of the ball. Jenks forward play is still not good enough for me and he loses possession too often up front leaving space behind.

Still, I was totally disappointed in the 2nd 1/2 performance and the end result.

However, we made it through. Looks like we'll have a humdinger of a round of 16 clash. Time to take a big scalp.

 

[MaestroCesc]

It doesn't matter if we become unseeded. It doesn't matter who we have in our group, it doesn't matter who we face in the round of 16.

We have one style of play. We don't consider who we are facing, we don't change the way we play for anyone. Whether they are Man City, Stoke or Real Madrid, we will play exactly the same way without any consideration of stopping the oppositions strengths.

I don't care if Chelsea won the Champions League through luck of the draw. We are not Chelsea, we have different principles. We do not simply try to win the game in any way we can. We will not defend for 3 rounds of a competition in order to win it.

It isn't about just winning at Arsenal. The sooner you realize that the better. It is about winning the beautiful way. It is about winning with football. It is about being remembered. I am not so desperate for my club to win something to sacrifice the way we play and hope for the luck of the draw.

This whole post is complete nonsense, which Arsenal were you watching last season? When Wenger realised the only way we would get top 4 was by playing a much more defensive game. Even this season we have sacrificed it, eg Dortmund away we didnt play the 'beautiful game', because it wasnt suitable. FA Cup final 05, it wasnt working so we sacrificed it and won.

There's this complete myth about Arsenal, 'we dont consider who we are facing' yes we do, if we didn't we would have lost much more games. We don't have one style of play, our style has completely changed to what it was 3 years ago.

I don't understand how you can put down Chelsea's run to the the trophy, it was spectacular the way they dug in and defended. If Arsenal did that, I would be proud.

 

[cannonade]

I thought the game was clicking nicely along in Arsenal's favor until about 60 minutes. At that point we seemed to be tiring and losing our hold on the tempo of the game. I though we needed a sub or two at that moment to help check their intensity and give us a boost in the midfield, then they scored a decent goal, we sub, Arteta sees red, Dortmund scores and the game's over. Can't really fault Wenger for his intentions, we played not to lose by 3 goals and he succeeded. We almost had it in the bag, but that's football. Disappointed, yes, but I think Wenger truly wanted to advance first, and get top spot second. I wish he had subbed at 60, but he didn't, and we're on to the next round.

 

[MaestroCesc]

Forget to mention how solid Mertsacker and Kos looked together last night, if the rest of the team or even Gibbs and Jenkinson where on their level we would or won or at least kept a clean sheet.

Mertesacker was at fault for both goals, Higuain's was very good play but for the 2nd definitely at fault.

Koscienly was our best player.

 

[kopzilla]

Will coming 2nd force Wenger to spend in the Jan window? We all hope but we shouldn't expect much.

If we do, I hope we go for another CB and a striker.

Given the fact that we have consistently qualified from the group stages while even Chelsea and Utd haven't, we shouldn't be too upset.

However, the manner in which we lost is worrying. We were very lucky given the chances Napoli had to score. We should have aimed at attacking and scoring at least 1 goal in the 1st half.

Even though we won at Dortmund, we were lucky not to concede 4-5 goals.

I think we'll improve once Walcott plays more and finds his rhythm and Podolski and Ox return.

 

[Jury]

I was pissed to not see Theo start, but once I saw how assured and in control we were, I though **** it, leave it as it is and bring him on as soon as Napoli start to go for it and push up on us, which was pretty much after 10 minutes of the 2nd half. THAT was the stick or twist moment for Wenger, and the moment I was desperate to see Theo. He went safety first and almost put us out of the CL.

 

[a_fourteen]

I was pissed to not see Theo start, but once I saw how assured and in control we were, I though **** it, leave it as it is and bring him on as soon as Napoli start to go for it and push up on us, which was pretty much after 10 minutes of the 2nd half. THAT was the stick or twist moment for Wenger, and the moment I was desperate to see Theo. He went safety first and almost put us out of the CL.

It's a bit of damned if he does, damned if he doesnt. Had he brought Theo on and they broken down our right people would've said whats wrong with Wenger putting Walcott and Jenkinson together when we are trying to play out a draw.
Frankly I thought Napoli were lucky with those two goals and we only missed top spot due to Groeskrutz late goal for Dortmund.

 

[Lakersgooner24]

It's a bit of damned if he does, damned if he doesnt. Had he brought Theo on and they broken down our right people would've said whats wrong with Wenger putting Walcott and Jenkinson together when we are trying to play out a draw.
Frankly I thought Napoli were lucky with those two goals and we only missed top spot due to Groeskrutz late goal for Dortmund.

It might have been if we were to concede two goals after Theo was brought on, but most of us were calling out for him at the 1-0 mark. He was tailor-made for that situation, playing on the counter against a team chasing goals. We were pretty much conceding being top of the group because there was no one out there who would have gotten a goal for us at that stage.

Losing 1-0 or 2-0 would have made no difference, but 1-1 would have made a huge difference. Obviously there were no guarantees that he would have given us a goal, but the squad that was out on the pitch sure as hell weren't going to score. It's the idea that Wenger was content with being 2nd in the group that was the frustrating part, and consequently us needing 'luck' in the draw, with the best possible scenario being us drawing PSG.

 

[a_fourteen]

It's a bit of damned if he does, damned if he doesnt. Had he brought Theo on and they broken down our right people would've said whats wrong with Wenger putting Walcott and Jenkinson together when we are trying to play out a draw.
Frankly I thought Napoli were lucky with those two goals and we only missed top spot due to Groeskrutz late goal for Dortmund.

It might have been if we were to concede two goals after Theo was brought on, but most of us were calling out for him at the 1-0 mark. He was tailor-made for that situation, playing on the counter against a team chasing goals. We were pretty much conceding being top of the group because there was no one out there who would have gotten a goal for us at that stage.

Losing 1-0 or 2-0 would have made no difference, but 1-1 would have made a huge difference. Obviously there were no guarantees that he would have given us a goal, but the squad that was out on the pitch sure as hell weren't going to score. It's the idea that Wenger was content with being 2nd in the group that was the frustrating part, and consequently us needing 'luck' in the draw, with the best possible scenario being us drawing PSG.

hindsight is a beautiful thing isn't it?