Does Wenger Have A Clue About Defending?

[DaGunners]

Wrote this in the Lobby yesterday:

Just had a thought about our central defenders. Everyone knows Wenger inherited a top defensive unit which was put together and educated by Graham. Is it possible that the reason Wenger replaced the Old Guard with pace merchant defenders because he doesn't have the coaching ability to put together and educate a proper central defense? Wenger has had no problem getting full backs in, but in his ENTIRE time here he has not yet acquired and brought through a mainstay archetype central defender.

Senderos and possibly Song do have the attributes needed, but they won't become the defenders we are crying out for without the proper coaching. Senderos has probably learned a lot at Milan, so we need to bring him back as well as bring in someone to handle the defense for Arsène. I suggest Martin Keown. Anytime I hear him talk about the game I am very impressed and of course he did a fabulous job in 2006.

So basically what I am saying is that buying new defenders is not going to clear up the issue for us. Its a start, but we need proper coaching to be done on the training ground, and REPETITION. The Old Guard always banged on about how boring training was, but it got them to the point where they knew each other inside out and they understood what they needed to be doing at all times. I just do not see that with our current crop, who solely rely on midfielders defending the space in front of them or reacting to the danger.

This thread should be used to discuss Wenger's defensive ability, and what we should change going forward. If there is already a thread, lock this.

 

[Lord Dula]

It's not his strongest point, that said one could argue that he should recognise this and appoint an approriate defensive coach.

Think he gears up our defense to best supplement our attacking play.

 

[ibby]

Campbell, Lauren, Cole and Toure say yes.


I think people are going overboard with our defence, sure its ****, but it's bound to be when your best defender, starting full-back and goal-keeper are injured. Before when we had Almunia, Sagna, Toure, Gallas, Clichy we were doing pretty well. Take three out the five out and replace them with Fabianski, Silvestre and Gibbs you are bound to have problems.

 

[Sover]

The old guard also had Viera defending the space in front of them. Song and Denilson are not quite up to scratch on their reading of the game yet, and there are obvious frailties when Gallas is out, as he is the one who usually spots the danger and steps up.

ibby is spot on with players missing though, take Vidic, Ferdinand and Vd Sar out of Uniteds defence and see how they get on.

Our first choice back line is pretty solid.

 

[nidza7]

defence is not just about back 4,it`s much more of course as we all know.


Quoting Capello from 6-7 yrs ago, "Defending starts from our main striker"

 

[fabo]

There are coaching issues no doubt but we still should reinforce the back-line so we are not dependent on the Kolo-Gallas combo.

Wenger clearly prioritises buying attacking players rather than defensive ones. And he does tend to make more mistakes in his defensive acquisitions. I sometimes wonder would Arsène have bought Sol Campbell had he not been on a free contract? I know his wages were pretty high as a result. Even Kolo was a bit of a cop-out from buying an actual defender, though it worked out pretty well.

Bring back Martin Keown I say.

 

[DaGunners]

I knew people would bring up the Invincibles defense, but they benefited hugely from the best midfielder ever, as well as the best attack these shores have ever seen. They were still a completely reactionary unit that would completely fail in this current team, ie, without physically insane midfielders holding their hands.

 

[hackajack]

I knew people would bring up the Invincibles defense, but they benefited hugely from the best midfielder ever, as well as the best attack these shores have ever seen. They were still a completely reactionary unit that would completely fail in this current team, ie, without physically insane midfielders holding their hands.

What's that supposed to mean? All defences are 'reactionary' - that's what they do: react to threats from the opposing attackers and snuff them out.

 

[DaGunners]

Sorry Hacka, what I mean is a unit completely reliant on their pace, not on their tactically ability.

 

[USArsenal]

I knew people would bring up the Invincibles defense, but they benefited hugely from the best midfielder ever, as well as the best attack these shores have ever seen. They were still a completely reactionary unit that would completely fail in this current team, ie, without physically insane midfielders holding their hands.

What's that supposed to mean? All defences are 'reactionary' - that's what they do: react to threats from the opposing attackers and snuff them out.

to be fair, that's not exactly true Hack.. positioning and cutting out danger before it happens is another side of defending..

that said, i dont necessarily agree with DaG that the Invincibles defence was completely reactionary.. the only "true" purely reactiony defender we had from that team was Toure.. Toure is about strength and speed, not his positional sense or intelligence.. Sol and Cashley and Lauren could read the game well and get themselves into better positions to make the plays (Lauren was certainly not a speed-demon on the right)

 

[DaGunners]

Sorry for the confusion again, when referring to the Invincibles I was specifically going for the central defenders, not the full backs as well.

But Campbell was no different than Toure for me; just a better version than Kolo.

 

[USArsenal]

IMO, Sol was very different than Kolo.. Sol was bigger, stronger and marshalled the defence..

 

[hackajack]

Crudely you get two sorts of CB fast ones and physical ones. The best pairs are complementary like Ferdinand and Vidic, and Kolo and Sol.

 

[j'nuh]

As Ibby said, the invincibles, along with statistically the best defence Europe has ever seen, says no.

 

[DaGunners]

Crudely you get two sorts of CB fast ones and physical ones. The best pairs are complementary like Ferdinand and Vidic, and Kolo and Sol.

Rio and Vidic are both accomplished readers of the game, neither of Toure/Campbell were IMO.

Also, you say the best CB combos has one fast guy and one physical guy. Does that mean you rate Toure-Campbell above Adams-Keown?

 

[hackajack]

Martin was pretty quick (and pretty physical) also possibly a better man marker than any of the people mentioned. I would rate him ahead of all the people mentioned with the exception of Ferdinand, even Tone, ignoring the captaincy for a minute.

 

[DaGunners]

You rate Rio ahead of Vidic? Its close, but while Rio might read the game a little better and is quicker, Vidic is a lot better aerially and is more proactive in his play.

As for Keown>Adams, I agree with you, but only after 97. (all I can remember)

 

[hackajack]

Ferdinand is world class and has been for a few years since he ironed out his 'away with the fairies' moments. Vidic's a decent player but well over-rated and flattered by having Ferdinand next to him.

 

[TomasCR]

He´s baaaaaaaaaaack!

We have already had a couple of good central defenders under Wenger so he evidently does have a clue about defending. Plus, Toure and Gallas are two word class defenders. Let´s not forget they have barely played together this season whether it was due to not being friends or one of them being injured.

I believe we´re one defender far from having a quality trio which can compete among themselves and even Wenger himself said that if there was a reason we couldn´t catch United and co, it was because of the defense.

Don´t worry, Wenger knows, he´s going to buy. And don´t make yourself look like Dos2 - change the ****ing avatar.

 

[DaGunners]

I believe we´re one defender far from having a quality trio which can compete among themselves and even Wenger himself said that if there was a reason we couldn´t catch United and co, it was because of the defense.

Don´t worry, Wenger knows, he´s going to buy. And don´t make yourself look like Dos2 - change the f****g avatar.

I think we are actually 2 defenders and a defensive coach away from having a good defense. Gallas is a certainty to be off IMO, and Toure is just crap these days.

Ava changed :wink: