EPL | Manchester United vs Arsenal | 10/11/13 | 4:10 PM

[Mastadon]

The players are professionals and JVP used to be our best player. He is someone they would have looked up to when he was an Arsenal player like we did and many of them would have personal relationships with him. He might have ruined his relationship with the fans but its not a reason for the players to dislike him personally. I certainly wouldnt stop being friends with someone just because they were no longer my colleague and working for a rival company. I think JVP's celebration against us was completely classless but if I was playing for Arsenal and he was my mate I wouldnt be too bothered about it after the match.

 

[boyinneedofhumor]

@ Mastadon,
In general circumstances I understand and have no problem with that. Or if it was a comment made in private during an informal company lunch by the boss when remembering his ex-employee.

But say, if you and your ex-mate/ex-employee are going head to head in securing a contract this week, and your boss steps out and says while other investors, etc are watching, that your ex-mate is an ideal company employee , whilst both of you are pitting to clinch the contract...?
(And this ex-mate previously is known to have insisted on leaving because he thinks the company wouldnt be able to scale to greater heights).

***Beyond the employees' response, the question is, was it really a necessity for the boss to say that in public just before the closing of a contract?

And o btw, after the contract is awarded, the boss then goes on to say that although there are certain factors affecting the bid during the process, you didnt have to necessarily lose the contract to him.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/boss-on-defeat-and-the-teams-at-the-top" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archiv ... at-the-top</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

on the sickness in the camp pre-match…
Look I don't want to speak about that because that can happen the whole season - it doesn't mean that you have to lose the game.

It sounds as though the employees are already damned before they do, and damned afterwards when they dont.
Just saying...

 

[SiMamu]

Good plan, tbf, if it worked. Get RVP sick too and hinder United.

 

[ArseGod]

I just wish we could've seen Gnabry start wide right. I understand that Ramsey is in the form of his life and he's played there before and we've done great. But I really think we missed a true wide player on the right hand side. Flamini, IMO, should'nt have come right back into the side. He was rusty, gave the ball away a bunch, and Ramsey was sloppy in the final third. Gnabry was entirely fresh (a small illness midweek aside) and was raring to go. His tracking back is very good so we wouldnt have lost anything there. Ramsey just doesnt stretch defenses and I found his engine wasted wide right. We should have just kept him centrally with one of Arteta or Flams and played Serge from the start.

Also, I don't feel fussed with this game. While a loss was harsh, it was our third huge game in the week and most of the players had played all three. We're not iron men. We're modern footballers. I find myself disappointed, but not with the players,more with injuries and maybe lacking a player or two in some areas. Either way, to win this game, the third in a week was a huge ask.

 

[Anzac]

AW wants a DLP at the base of the midfield so he starts Arteta when he's available.
He usually plays Rambo as B2B in order to join the forward pressing line along with Cazorla & Rosicky, with Özil making himself available in support.
As soon as Rosicky was unavailable AW moved Rambo to the flank in order to use Flamini as the forward ball winner as he wanted to retain the same pressing ability.
Unfortunately Flamini's best work is at the base of the midfield where Arteta plays, and Rambo's best work is from CM.

Essentially the same midfield worked against Napoli, and the biggest difference was that v ManU it appears that we were too intent on trying to provide a high pressing capability, whereas v Napoli Flamini sat alongside Arteta.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/776531/MatchReport/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2013-2014-Arsenal-Napoli" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/776531 ... nal-Napoli</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720144/MatchReport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720144/MatchReport</a>

In both games Özil has ended up squeezing forward & playing almost alongside Giroud as a SS.

 

[Anzac]

As mentioned in the CAzolra-Özil thread v ManU we were set out to contain/prevent the ball from getting to RVP/Shrek in much the same way we did v LFC.

However whilst the capabilities of Arteta-Flamini, Cazorla-Özil-Rambo v ManU,
Arteta-Rambo, Cazorla-Özil-Rosicky v LFC, and
Arteta-Flamini, Rosicky-Özil-Rambo v Napoli are all essentially the same players & roles, the execution differs based upon how the opposition midfield plays.

Napoli looked to congest the middle,
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/776531/MatchReport/Europe-UEFA-Champions-League-2013-2014-Arsenal-Napoli" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/776531 ... nal-Napoli</a>

LFC looked to press in our half,
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720105/MatchReport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720105/MatchReport</a>

whilst ManU looked to press our AMs & then attack using width.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720144/MatchReport" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/720144/MatchReport</a>

Major difference being ManU's extra depth & use of width. Consequently IMO we got suckered into pushing Flamini forward & playing narrow. ManU sat deeper with Carrick as deep as Arteta, but Jones was behind him as more of a 3rd CB as in a 31411, with Jones & Shrek covering Özil & Arteta.
ManU drew Flamini forward & then simply went around our midfield to expose Arteta. IMO we were as naïve A v ManU as we were H v Dortmund, and we failed to learn the lessons from last season v ManU.

IMO we have been far too conservative and should have set up as we did v Napoli = Falmini behind Arteta (as we see a ball winner behind a ball player from the opposition in those same games),
and the RWF instructed to play the channels ahead of the ball.

 

[SA Gunner]

Losing to United has a big implication and it should not be underplayed. Make no mistake about this game, this was the right time to set that club back a few years and cause psychological damage at a time when they are going through a major transition. Yet typically, we turned up with the sort of complacency which has been a hallmark of Wenger's teams over the past few years and this set the tone for the rest of the game. I mean it was a measure of how bad the performance was that the brightest spark came from a 18 year old rookie. As mentioned above, eventually City, Chelsea, United will click into gear and their bigger squad advantage will come into play at some point. On another note, I know a Wenger title winning team when I see one and I'm not convinced this team has all the necessary tools to close out a championship, this game aside. Really is this team any better than the 07/08 team which in my opinion was the last team that had anything close to the balance and cohesive game plan needed to win a championship, only to be undone by the perennial squad depth issues.

General is right.

If you put aside the numbers, statistics and context of this season and focus on what is arguably the most important aspect in sport, then we have been dealt a harsh blow yet again.

This was a major opportunity to inflict proper psychological damage on the club inside out. A message down to their heart of hearts that they are on their way down.

We currently suffer from this psychological trauma due to the fact that we have won nothing in a very long time, with this being the fact we are expecting the fail, just as United are expecting to succeed everytime. This is the reason why United celebrated like they won the league, it was similar to our celebrations post Newcastle, massive in terms of a key area.

Lets hope we bounce back immediately and continue to focus on collecting points. I believe that unless we bring in clear quality upfront or get across the line in the race for a major honour will such episodes continue and we will continue to fall short.

Its that major unfortunately.

 

[Jury]

I don't see how one game against a particular rival should mean so much. If we had to play them every week, then this psychological thing would be a worry, but we don't.

For all we know, the players will have taken great heart from that. We were dogsh!t, had players that were ill or absent, were missing two of our most attacking options, had just played a brutal and emotional CL tie in Dortmund, but only lost 1-0 with a day less recovery than them. That's the other side. I don't know what the club shrink thinks about it.

Yes, we need more quality up front, but that doesn't become any more of a priority because we lost to Man Utd. We knew that on matchday one.

 

[SA Gunner]

Lets see how it goes Jury. Wenger's teams have shown me over the years that they likely not to cope with psychological pressure well. Of course we have beaten the odds in stunning fashion in the past but for the most part I have been left dissapointed.

The key point you make is that we dont play United every week, and they only have 3 more points to starve us of. I do believe however that for us to truly dominate we need to put them away, and not show up with the same performance every single time.

As for quality, I dont even think that matters when it comes to this team. I remember that FA Cup game when Fergie plays 7 defenders against us and beats us 2-0.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

I absolutely get where some of the concerns regarding our mental stability in games of higher significance are coming from - such games will occur more than once during a season, and this team is yet to really show they're able of consistantly passing those tests. The sings have been good though, bar the last game of course.

Each and every Wenger-side so far has had mental issues when it comes to that, ever since he's been here, so I really hope the current crop isn't as vulnerable as the ones before.

 

[Jury]

Haven't we just beat Liverpool and Dortmund? Was it/is it all about how we performed against Man Utd all along then? So much for the 'next 23 days thread' !! :wink:

 

[k24bfan]

I think its sometimes down to the players. Wenger tries to be supportive but knows very well the team out on the pitch needs to respond mentally. The team showed no fear to Liverpool/Dortmund and fought but with United we seem to have a complex because its 'United'

 

[Jury]

Personally, I saw that defeat coming. people can call it mental this and that, but we were on our last legs up there. I believe we were done by timing more than anything this time. All to easy to go down the recent history route IMO.

 

[Jasard]

You just know other fans are laughing at ours for having a break down over this result... I was listening to an Arsenal podcast (cant remember which) and it was embarrassing how they were criticizing so much about the club just because of this game when before it they were loving everything. This game was meaningless... bleh.

 

[TakeChillPill]

I think we have to keep a sense of prespective, as Jury mentions the team had a really tough and draining run of games. PLus he have 3 key wide opitions injured and two freak illnesses on the day.

Man U played like the away team for most of the second half, people say we hardly created a chance and the same can be siad about them.

I definatly believe had Per been fit RVP would not have scored from that corner ( + Giroud would normally have been in Ramesy's position).

External factors combined with fatigue have had more to play then our mental state or the players.

 

[Anzac]

Personally, I saw that defeat coming. people can call it mental this and that, but we were on our last legs up there. I believe we were done by timing more than anything this time. All to easy to go down the recent history route IMO.

Agreed with this - but AW does not help matters when he talks in the press of the team being too nervous and rushed in our play.

 

[Rain Dance]

Personally, I saw that defeat coming. people can call it mental this and that, but we were on our last legs up there. I believe we were done by timing more than anything this time. All to easy to go down the recent history route IMO.

Agreed with this - but AW does not help matters when he talks in the press of the team being too nervous and rushed in our play.

you do know that if he answer it was because of tiredness/illness he would get worse response from media

and it would go on for weeks disturbing our players

 

[Anzac]

Doesn't help in what way? Help whom? Hinder how? Should have said what instead? Moot anyway. It's all clearly a code for his fellow illuminati.

Meh - considering how much stock he himself puts in the mental approach IMO he's basically sh*t house at fostering it in the team.

 

[Anzac]

Personally, I saw that defeat coming. people can call it mental this and that, but we were on our last legs up there. I believe we were done by timing more than anything this time. All to easy to go down the recent history route IMO.

Agreed with this - but AW does not help matters when he talks in the press of the team being too nervous and rushed in our play.

you do know that if he answer it was because of tiredness/illness he would get worse response from media

and it would go on for weeks disturbing our players

So rather than put his hand up and say he got it wrong re the selection/preparation or even so far as the lack of depth,
he basically directs the 'blame' to the player's mentality?
So did he wait until half time to give any instruction?

 

[VAVAVOOM 14]

So rather than put his hand up and say he got it wrong re the selection/preparation or even so far as the lack of depth,
he basically directs the 'blame' to the player's mentality?
So did he wait until half time to give any instruction?

Its not Wenger's fault our players forgot how to control and pass the ball.