arsmile
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
so is zelalem german/American/Ethiopian ?
that is an interesting mix
so is zelalem german/American/Ethiopian ?
that is an interesting mix
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FR: Nagoya Grampus vs Arsenal | 22/7/13, 11:30
- Thread starter Salieri
- Start date
- Replies 77
- Views 5,534
DJ_Markstar
Based and Artetapilled
Player:Martinelli
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
Just watching this "as live" (was busy earlier), as if Nagoya have a player called Danielson. All we need now is a coach called My. Miyagi.
Just watching this "as live" (was busy earlier), as if Nagoya have a player called Danielson. All we need now is a coach called My. Miyagi.
silent_shadow
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
Watching this now. the ref in yellow looks like the lone player of a random team that just wandered onto the pitch.
Watching this now. the ref in yellow looks like the lone player of a random team that just wandered onto the pitch.
Warship
Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
In terms of citizenship yes since he grew up here in the States however I think his parents are Ethiopian/German.
He's already chosen Germany as far as I know which is a shame because I know Klinsman was after him.. USA really need a standout player and he has the makings of one.
arsmile said:
In terms of citizenship yes since he grew up here in the States however I think his parents are Ethiopian/German.
He's already chosen Germany as far as I know which is a shame because I know Klinsman was after him.. USA really need a standout player and he has the makings of one.
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
His parents are both Ethiopian as far as I know. He spent his childhood here, then moved to the US in 2007 at ten years old. His father wants his son to play for Germany, which he's doing at the moment in the U-17 team. Looks talented enough to even break into Germany's senior team, so the decision is understandable.
His parents are both Ethiopian as far as I know. He spent his childhood here, then moved to the US in 2007 at ten years old. His father wants his son to play for Germany, which he's doing at the moment in the U-17 team. Looks talented enough to even break into Germany's senior team, so the decision is understandable.
ArsenesNO1Fan
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
So how good is Zelalem? Can he be a squad player here next season?
So how good is Zelalem? Can he be a squad player here next season?
scytheavatar
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
To me in terms of sheer talent (skills, maturity and vision) Zelalem could very well be better than Cesc at the same age. Having said that the 16 year old Cesc was probably stronger and more physically ready than the current Zelalem, so I am not sure if Zelalem can be a squad player here next season.
To me in terms of sheer talent (skills, maturity and vision) Zelalem could very well be better than Cesc at the same age. Having said that the 16 year old Cesc was probably stronger and more physically ready than the current Zelalem, so I am not sure if Zelalem can be a squad player here next season.
fabo
6.51 / 10
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
Nah, Cesc was ridiculous. He was standing up to veterans like Roy Keane at 17, going to Everton away etc.
I would say Zelalem has a better final ball and weight of pass than our current youngsters like Jack, Ramsey but there's just so much more that goes with playing in centre-mid in the PL.
Nah, Cesc was ridiculous. He was standing up to veterans like Roy Keane at 17, going to Everton away etc.
I would say Zelalem has a better final ball and weight of pass than our current youngsters like Jack, Ramsey but there's just so much more that goes with playing in centre-mid in the PL.
beck
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
against malaysia with a deflection.
i have been going arsenal 43 years and never seen us score 17 goals in our 1st 3 pre season games
they are training games to get the fitness up
do you mean like how it took us till the last 3 mins to come back from 1 downDanDare said:
against malaysia with a deflection.
i have been going arsenal 43 years and never seen us score 17 goals in our 1st 3 pre season games
they are training games to get the fitness up
mo50
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
Cesc was something else at that age. Until Zelalem could do what he's doing right now against seasoned pro's he won't be anywhere near Cesc. We must remember that the guys he's currently playing against aren't even professionals. He's obviously very talented but until I see him against real opposition it's foolish to compare him to Cesc.
scytheavatar said:
Cesc was something else at that age. Until Zelalem could do what he's doing right now against seasoned pro's he won't be anywhere near Cesc. We must remember that the guys he's currently playing against aren't even professionals. He's obviously very talented but until I see him against real opposition it's foolish to compare him to Cesc.
The Escaped Ape
Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
I don't know if it was because I was there, but this was a lot better game in person than in this thread. Managed to get much better seats than I've ever managed before though, so maybe that had something to do with it. I was almost on a level with the players.
Wilshere wasn't holding back (to the point where I was willing him to - no need to put yourself out with an injury again). Rosicky and Giroud looked fairly good, but hard to judge against opposition like this (kind of lower level PL level I guess, or maybe upper level Championship). Ramsey had a good games - drawing lots of oohs and aahs from the local crowd with his tackling, dribbling and speed.
Most exciting of the younger players was without a doubt Zelalem. He was cool and quick in possession and passing very effectively. Gnabry was energetic and hard working, but I didn't see anything dramatic.
Going to the Saitama game on Friday as well. Should be a tougher test than Nagoya.
I don't know if it was because I was there, but this was a lot better game in person than in this thread. Managed to get much better seats than I've ever managed before though, so maybe that had something to do with it. I was almost on a level with the players.
Wilshere wasn't holding back (to the point where I was willing him to - no need to put yourself out with an injury again). Rosicky and Giroud looked fairly good, but hard to judge against opposition like this (kind of lower level PL level I guess, or maybe upper level Championship). Ramsey had a good games - drawing lots of oohs and aahs from the local crowd with his tackling, dribbling and speed.
Most exciting of the younger players was without a doubt Zelalem. He was cool and quick in possession and passing very effectively. Gnabry was energetic and hard working, but I didn't see anything dramatic.
Going to the Saitama game on Friday as well. Should be a tougher test than Nagoya.
beck
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
they are not part timers but a pro outfit
fabregas had played 1 league cup tie v rotherham by the time he was the age zelalem is now.
not the established roy keane foe some are making out
nagoya had a goalkeeper who has played in 4 world cups a player that put japan 1-0 up in a world cup v brazil and a player who scored the winner for australia in hollandmo50 said:
they are not part timers but a pro outfit
fabregas had played 1 league cup tie v rotherham by the time he was the age zelalem is now.
not the established roy keane foe some are making out
yuvken
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
Enjoy the next one (and hope we win).
:shock Wow, wow - I would also go to both if I could. How many of us would be able to say "I was there in that week when the Zelalem legend started, he became a star before my very eyes!". Looked a fantabulous stadium, too - the whole setting looked very special. must have been great to be right next to the play.The Escaped Ape said:
Enjoy the next one (and hope we win).
yuvken
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
All of you guys are making decent points and reasonable stances, but one thing seems to be confused here in terms, and perhaps it's thus not seen or understood in the same way by all.
It is one thing to talk about the talent (in which time and development have little matter). And it's another to talk about different aspects of the development.
Thus when we go to the specifics of comparison, it's one thing to compare cesc's (pure) talent with that of Zelalem's (you could basically do it if or when he was 12 as well - though obviously trying to assess it would have been difficult).
It is a different comparison when you try to follow development through events in real life (then you compare directly - physical development, level of play, different aspects of play, including mental - maturity, confidence), and that's somewhat easier to do, and could be more analytic. Or so it would seem.
It is yet a third and separate thing to do (which was sort of done here) to use the empirical findings - through following the experience to try to deduct stuff in order to determine the talent (rather obvious, I guess).
I'd only say that circumstances may be way more important in the picture than what it would seem. I think looking for the pure talent is something that needs to be somewhat detached from the immediate particulars. And then, practical ideas about how he should be developed (or ideas about when he can start playing real football) should be taken from what is actually happening.
So you'll see where he's at in development when he plays vs PL opposition (or CoC), but if you want to draw your ideas about his talent (though admittedly some parts are left in the dark: like a level of mental toughness which is required can only be revealed in real life, when the real pressure's on, including a level of physical challenge), I think you can actually dare even when you play Naguya (or something like that). After all, we get a fairly optimistic look of Rosicky as well here, so what the hell
beck said:
All of you guys are making decent points and reasonable stances, but one thing seems to be confused here in terms, and perhaps it's thus not seen or understood in the same way by all.
It is one thing to talk about the talent (in which time and development have little matter). And it's another to talk about different aspects of the development.
Thus when we go to the specifics of comparison, it's one thing to compare cesc's (pure) talent with that of Zelalem's (you could basically do it if or when he was 12 as well - though obviously trying to assess it would have been difficult).
It is a different comparison when you try to follow development through events in real life (then you compare directly - physical development, level of play, different aspects of play, including mental - maturity, confidence), and that's somewhat easier to do, and could be more analytic. Or so it would seem.
It is yet a third and separate thing to do (which was sort of done here) to use the empirical findings - through following the experience to try to deduct stuff in order to determine the talent (rather obvious, I guess).
I'd only say that circumstances may be way more important in the picture than what it would seem. I think looking for the pure talent is something that needs to be somewhat detached from the immediate particulars. And then, practical ideas about how he should be developed (or ideas about when he can start playing real football) should be taken from what is actually happening.
So you'll see where he's at in development when he plays vs PL opposition (or CoC), but if you want to draw your ideas about his talent (though admittedly some parts are left in the dark: like a level of mental toughness which is required can only be revealed in real life, when the real pressure's on, including a level of physical challenge), I think you can actually dare even when you play Naguya (or something like that). After all, we get a fairly optimistic look of Rosicky as well here, so what the hell
Jury
A-M's drunk uncle
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
I don't think I'll ever see another 16 year old as mentally ready for senior football as Cesc was.
Yuv makes a decent point that Nagoya were not exactly part-timers, but I'll hold fire on the Cesc mentality comparisons until I see Zel up against some real competitive sh!t bags that would love nothing more than to knock us out of, say, a CC tie at home - although away would maybe tell us more. If he's running around the pitch screaming for the ball, making his presence felt, I'll be dreaming. Those types tend to make it.
I don't think I'll ever see another 16 year old as mentally ready for senior football as Cesc was.
Yuv makes a decent point that Nagoya were not exactly part-timers, but I'll hold fire on the Cesc mentality comparisons until I see Zel up against some real competitive sh!t bags that would love nothing more than to knock us out of, say, a CC tie at home - although away would maybe tell us more. If he's running around the pitch screaming for the ball, making his presence felt, I'll be dreaming. Those types tend to make it.
yuvken
Established Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
I was suggesting we look at the boy's talent, and worry a tad less about where he is in his development, or even be tempted to gauge by proxy/via cesc comparison. Too many variables could take you off there: did GedZel grow and learn his trade at La Masia? does he come from a football climate at all? how much of his development thus far owes to experience, or alternatively - how much has a less than optimal up bringing hindered him so far? (which equals saying basically: how much is all we've seen so far just a peak at pure talent, as he's leaning less on what he learned). And essentially - is it even a good idea to directly compare two players, just because one aspect of their game is similar (and outstanding)? could be very different persons and players. and here we have another temptation to blur our efforts even more: not only are these amazing through balls inviting comparison, they also shine at a very early age. But is it really all that important?
I mentioned that there is at least one important part of the talent which we'd have a hard time guessing about till it's tested vs the rough PL physicality and demanding atmosphere. It's true. But I still say: look at the talent - there's lots to see. Naguya will do for now.
It's Beck's point, actually (and a solid one, too). I had my fair share of my own points, thank you.The Jury said:
I think you're saying things very similar to mo before you - and basically taking the third route I mentioned: you are using what's in front of you, and through a comparison with cesc at same age - as-though-he-was in front of you, to try to gauge the level of talent (hey, tempting: we know how that story ended, why fool around?)
I was suggesting we look at the boy's talent, and worry a tad less about where he is in his development, or even be tempted to gauge by proxy/via cesc comparison. Too many variables could take you off there: did GedZel grow and learn his trade at La Masia? does he come from a football climate at all? how much of his development thus far owes to experience, or alternatively - how much has a less than optimal up bringing hindered him so far? (which equals saying basically: how much is all we've seen so far just a peak at pure talent, as he's leaning less on what he learned). And essentially - is it even a good idea to directly compare two players, just because one aspect of their game is similar (and outstanding)? could be very different persons and players. and here we have another temptation to blur our efforts even more: not only are these amazing through balls inviting comparison, they also shine at a very early age. But is it really all that important?
I mentioned that there is at least one important part of the talent which we'd have a hard time guessing about till it's tested vs the rough PL physicality and demanding atmosphere. It's true. But I still say: look at the talent - there's lots to see. Naguya will do for now.
The Escaped Ape
Well-Known Member
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
It's some compensation for not being able to go to games during the season. I was very excited to hear Arsenal were coming.
At first I thought I'd just go to the Saitama game (only 90 minutes from Tokyo), but then found a way to get hold of tickets for Nagoya and thought why not? A four hour drive each way (expensive with the tolls, but not as expensive as the bullet train, particularly as my wife went with me), so we stayed overnight.
Both stadiums were built for the world cup, so they're high standard, modern, football specific arenas. Not that dissimilar to the Emirates in that sense. The Nagoya stadium's actually an hour from Nagoya though, in Toyota City (yes, where the cars are made). Slightly in the middle of nowhere. Incredible temperatures during the day on Monday (37 at midday) and very, very humid when the match was taking place.
All in all, it's turning out to be quite some Arsenal summer (in addition to meeting Freddie when he came to Japan in June, getting my shirt signed and photo taken with him ). I'll report back on the Saitama game as well. 8))
yuvken said:
It's some compensation for not being able to go to games during the season. I was very excited to hear Arsenal were coming.
At first I thought I'd just go to the Saitama game (only 90 minutes from Tokyo), but then found a way to get hold of tickets for Nagoya and thought why not? A four hour drive each way (expensive with the tolls, but not as expensive as the bullet train, particularly as my wife went with me), so we stayed overnight.
Both stadiums were built for the world cup, so they're high standard, modern, football specific arenas. Not that dissimilar to the Emirates in that sense. The Nagoya stadium's actually an hour from Nagoya though, in Toyota City (yes, where the cars are made). Slightly in the middle of nowhere. Incredible temperatures during the day on Monday (37 at midday) and very, very humid when the match was taking place.
All in all, it's turning out to be quite some Arsenal summer (in addition to meeting Freddie when he came to Japan in June, getting my shirt signed and photo taken with him
). I'll report back on the Saitama game as well. 8))
VancouverCanuck
Well-Known Member
Country: Canada
Re: Arsenal vs Nagoya 10:30 gmt, 19:30 local time.
Please do so, Ape. Can't wait for Arsenal to come to Vancouver next summer.
Please do so, Ape. Can't wait for Arsenal to come to Vancouver next summer.
