General Reserves Talk

[oh to be a goon]

Rumor is Lewis-Skelly is playing left back today. Can anyone confirm?

 

[MutableEarth]

Rumor is Lewis-Skelly is playing left back today. Can anyone confirm?

He was. He was replaced after 45 mins because he's not a full back and we need to never entertain the idea of playing him as a full back, ever!

Arsenal are losing 4-1. Think while the U21s have done OK this season, there are clear gaps in this team. Didn't wanna get on his case on Twitter but Butler-Oyedeji is a really blunt striker. Not a good goalscorer at all and his general play is much better as a winger. Chido Obi needs to be in this team already. U18 is no longer a challenge and U21 CF is ripe for him.

Think we defo need some new young defenders on the come up too.

 

[Rasmi]

2 goals by nwaneri. Guy need to be permanent in the first team from next season

 

[lomekian]

He was. He was replaced after 45 mins because he's not a full back and we need to never entertain the idea of playing him as a full back, ever!

Arsenal are losing 4-1. Think while the U21s have done OK this season, there are clear gaps in this team. Didn't wanna get on his case on Twitter but Butler-Oyedeji is a really blunt striker. Not a good goalscorer at all and his general play is much better as a winger. Chido Obi needs to be in this team already. U18 is no longer a challenge and U21 CF is ripe for him.

Think we defo need some new young defenders on the come up too.

Yeah bar a couple of standouts, now some of the guys have gone on loan, the u21 group is (bar MLS & Nwaneri) probably weaker than the u18 group even vs each other, let alone vs their respective age groups.

U21s are a mix of very young guys stepping up, guys who were never ever going to make it at a top flight club, and those who due to injury or bad loans desperately need any game time they can get.

 

[MutableEarth]

Yeah bar a couple of standouts, now some of the guys have gone on loan, the u21 group is (bar MLS & Nwaneri) probably weaker than the u18 group even vs each other, let alone vs their respective age groups.

U21s are a mix of very young guys stepping up, guys who were never ever going to make it at a top flight club, and those who due to injury or bad loans desperately need any game time they can get.

It's crazy because Wilsheres team right now is full of schoolboys but they're really good. Helps they have a killer up front too. Strong batch and technically Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly are only a year above them. Could be a strong set.

 

[Afro Mugo]

It's crazy because Wilsheres team right now is full of schoolboys but they're really good. Helps they have a killer up front too. Strong batch and technically Nwaneri and Lewis-Skelly are only a year above them. Could be a strong set.

The current u21 group is as it is due to bad academy decisions we made after the Hutchinson Patino group. The next two batches were not as talented and we made little effort in recruiting plus we've seen the likes of Sousa and Awe leave in addition to the many who we didn't offer pro deals this year . Hopefully from next season we begin to change our approach.

 

[Geofranco]

The current u21 group is as it is due to bad academy decisions we made after the Hutchinson Patino group. The next two batches were not as talented and we made little effort in recruiting plus we've seen the likes of Sousa and Awe leave in addition to the many who we didn't offer pro deals this year . Hopefully from next season we begin to change our approach.

I really liked Awe. Wanted him to develop as a more agile Mertesacker lol

 

[MutableEarth]

The current u21 group is as it is due to bad academy decisions we made after the Hutchinson Patino group. The next two batches were not as talented and we made little effort in recruiting plus we've seen the likes of Sousa and Awe leave in addition to the many who we didn't offer pro deals this year . Hopefully from next season we begin to change our approach.

Still not making great decisions with them. Edwards and Monlouis went on ill-thought out loans just to send them somewhere. Norton-Cuffy stuck with another non-footballing team playing as a wing back in a 5 when he should be playing RB in a possession system like he was at Lincoln City. Less said about Patino's loans the better. Hutchinson didn't even get the chance to go on loan and they're making the same mistake with Cozier-Duberry. Miracle if he signs!

We're gonna need to be very careful with the next gen. Of the current scholars (Bar the obvious duo), Heaven, Rosiak and Kamara stick out as potentials. Nichols might also do OK. I hope they move Heaven back into midfield though, I like the idea of him being a press-beating 6. The new players are far more interesting as a group though. Julienne, Ibrahim, Zecevic-John, Obi-Martin. That's a solid group there.

 

[GoonerJeeves]

Still not making great decisions with them. Edwards and Monlouis went on ill-thought out loans just to send them somewhere. Norton-Cuffy stuck with another non-footballing team playing as a wing back in a 5 when he should be playing RB in a possession system like he was at Lincoln City. Less said about Patino's loans the better. Hutchinson didn't even get the chance to go on loan and they're making the same mistake with Cozier-Duberry. Miracle if he signs!

We're gonna need to be very careful with the next gen. Of the current scholars (Bar the obvious duo), Heaven, Rosiak and Kamara stick out as potentials. Nichols might also do OK. I hope they move Heaven back into midfield though, I like the idea of him being a press-beating 6. The new players are far more interesting as a group though. Julienne, Ibrahim, Zecevic-John, Obi-Martin. That's a solid group there.

I think it is fair to say than we've not succeeded with our loan policy, bar perhaps the decision to loan Saliba to Nice and Marseille, which clearly helped his development.

For our academy, we need to do better on the loan side of things.

 

[teamsoutheast]

Still not making great decisions with them. Edwards and Monlouis went on ill-thought out loans just to send them somewhere. Norton-Cuffy stuck with another non-footballing team playing as a wing back in a 5 when he should be playing RB in a possession system like he was at Lincoln City. Less said about Patino's loans the better. Hutchinson didn't even get the chance to go on loan and they're making the same mistake with Cozier-Duberry. Miracle if he signs!

We're gonna need to be very careful with the next gen. Of the current scholars (Bar the obvious duo), Heaven, Rosiak and Kamara stick out as potentials. Nichols might also do OK. I hope they move Heaven back into midfield though, I like the idea of him being a press-beating 6. The new players are far more interesting as a group though. Julienne, Ibrahim, Zecevic-John, Obi-Martin. That's a solid group there.

When you say the loans were "ill-thought" what do you mean? Where else should they have gone and why?

They are getting the opportunity to play at EFL level which ALOT of them are struggling to compete with as it is at the moment. They can't just expect to walk in to another club's first team starting lineup just because " I play for Arsenal". They have to compete, and train, and work just like everyone else which is part of the education is it not?

The players MUST learn to adapt to different different managers, different styles of play as they aren't always going to get what they want and play the style they want. Alot of it is a test of character. Monlouis going to Reading is a good education for him. Can he manage to stake a claim when the chips are down, as Reading were really struggling earlier in the season. Their CB's currently are Amadou Mbengue (22) and Tyler Bindon (19). Tyler Bindon is actually younger than Monlouis and is proving that he's better than him as he's already made 35 appearances for the club. Monlouis has only made 1 sub appearance for 5 minutes and that's it.

It really says something if a younger player is ahead of you in the pecking order. What is 19 year old Tyler Bindon doing in training that Monlouis isn't??? Questions have to be asked? (unless he's injured of course).

Also for Khayon Edwards, he's actually doing well to make the match day squads for Leyton Orient. He just needs to find some goal scoring form as he seems to be getting hooked at half time. Needs to find his shooting boots but at least he is COMPETING for a place.

Sagoe Jr isn't even making the match day squads so he too needs to raise his level and compete against the players already there.

Norton Cuffy has acutally done well when he has gone on loan. Every club he has gone to, he's played and competed for a first team place. He's made 100 appearances at 20 years old in the EFL which is really impressive for someone coming out of our youth ranks. 25 appearances 2 goals and 4 assists and 1 MOTM award. He should be proud of himself.

Hutchinson is actually doing quite well for Ipswich. I'm pretty sure his decision was more that he wanted to go as Chelsea were offering more money. Fair enough....

 

[lomekian]

The current u21 group is as it is due to bad academy decisions we made after the Hutchinson Patino group. The next two batches were not as talented and we made little effort in recruiting plus we've seen the likes of Sousa and Awe leave in addition to the many who we didn't offer pro deals this year . Hopefully from next season we begin to change our approach.

Its also because no academy produces gold in every crop. Where the club erred is, as you say, not augmenting from outside when literally every single one of our rivals were doing so.

Agree with @MutableEarth too when it comes to our loans. Some of it is luck, but some of it is sending them to clubs that just don't seem a fit. Hard to legislate for new coaches coming in and changing style and focus, as has happened to Patinio, but some of them are real head scratchers, like Sagoe to Swansea, who has barely seen the bench let alon get meaningful game time.

 

[MutableEarth]

When you say the loans were "ill-thought" what do you mean? Where else should they have gone and why?

They are getting the opportunity to play at EFL level which ALOT of them are struggling to compete with as it is at the moment. They can't just expect to walk in to another club's first team starting lineup just because " I play for Arsenal". They have to compete, and train, and work just like everyone else which is part of the education is it not?

The players MUST learn to adapt to different different managers, different styles of play as they aren't always going to get what they want and play the style they want. Alot of it is a test of character. Monlouis going to Reading is a good education for him. Can he manage to stake a claim when the chips are down, as Reading were really struggling earlier in the season. Their CB's currently are Amadou Mbengue (22) and Tyler Bindon (19). Tyler Bindon is actually younger than Monlouis and is proving that he's better than him as he's already made 35 appearances for the club. Monlouis has only made 1 sub appearance for 5 minutes and that's it.

It really says something if a younger player is ahead of you in the pecking order. What is 19 year old Tyler Bindon doing in training that Monlouis isn't??? Questions have to be asked? (unless he's injured of course).

Also for Khayon Edwards, he's actually doing well to make the match day squads for Leyton Orient. He just needs to find some goal scoring form as he seems to be getting hooked at half time. Needs to find his shooting boots but at least he is COMPETING for a place.

Sagoe Jr isn't even making the match day squads so he too needs to raise his level and compete against the players already there.

Norton Cuffy has acutally done well when he has gone on loan. Every club he has gone to, he's played and competed for a first team place. He's made 100 appearances at 20 years old in the EFL which is really impressive for someone coming out of our youth ranks. 25 appearances 2 goals and 4 assists and 1 MOTM award. He should be proud of himself.

Hutchinson is actually doing quite well for Ipswich. I'm pretty sure his decision was more that he wanted to go as Chelsea were offering more money. Fair enough....

Think where we slightly differ is that at the very least we should be more discerning. If they were playing in the beginning then got dropped then fair (re Patino). But more often than not, these players are not actually coming into compete, they're emergency options. Monlouis is a perfect example. I don't think they ever intended for him to be more than a backup, which is disappointing. Same with Sagoe Jr, especially given Swansea had just signed Ronald. It's one thing to raise one's level, it's another when the odds are basically rigged regardless. Khayon Edwards has done OK to be playing, but I know a couple O's and they've basically said he's far from ready (not in the kindest words tbh). In his case, I think injuries have played their part but we need to make sure we do our recon this Summer before he goes back on loan. I'd like to see him go to whoever Darren Moore is managing as he's done alright with a couple of ours (TJJ comes to mind).

Norton-Cuffy has done well I agree, he's made his situation work and I think being the talent with the level of physique he has does help. He'll always compete as a result, as long as he stays fit. I want to see him challenged more on his technical game though and I don't think his loans are doing that enough.

Its also because no academy produces gold in every crop. Where the club erred is, as you say, not augmenting from outside when literally every single one of our rivals were doing so.

Agree with @MutableEarth too when it comes to our loans. Some of it is luck, but some of it is sending them to clubs that just don't seem a fit. Hard to legislate for new coaches coming in and changing style and focus, as has happened to Patinio, but some of them are real head scratchers, like Sagoe to Swansea, who has barely seen the bench let alon get meaningful game time.

Patino has been ****ed by managerial changes twice in a row in fairness to him. His lack of athleticism doesn't help but still.

 

[MutableEarth]

This comp is crazy

 

[teamsoutheast]

Think where we slightly differ is that at the very least we should be more discerning. If they were playing in the beginning then got dropped then fair (re Patino). But more often than not, these players are not actually coming into compete, they're emergency options. Monlouis is a perfect example. I don't think they ever intended for him to be more than a backup, which is disappointing. Same with Sagoe Jr, especially given Swansea had just signed Ronald. It's one thing to raise one's level, it's another when the odds are basically rigged regardless.

Then they have to give the manager a problem and a reason to play them. Show character, show that you are better than the first teamer ahead of you. Again, it goes back to my example with Monlouis and Tyler Bindon. Bindon just turned 19 in Januar, Monlouis is 21 in October. Bindon starts and has played 35 games Zane Monluis has played 5 minutes from the bench. It's clear, Bindon is better than him and is showing more in training.

We need these players to compete and show character, as a MINIMUM, if they want to get anywhere near pro football. There are tons of teenagers in the EFL who are miles ahead of our guys in terms of ecperience. The, "I play for Arsenal" line isn't gonna cut it quite frankly as certain manager's jobs/reputations/careers are on the line.

Regarding Khayon Edwards, there's a reason those O's have said he's not ready. Now, he has to show character and prove them wrong. I too would love for him to go and play for a Darren Moore but in the real world of football, it's not going to be like that and they MUST adapt to that.

 

[teamsoutheast]

The current u21 group is as it is due to bad academy decisions we made after the Hutchinson Patino group. The next two batches were not as talented and we made little effort in recruiting plus we've seen the likes of Sousa and Awe leave in addition to the many who we didn't offer pro deals this year . Hopefully from next season we begin to change our approach.

Didn't Sousa want to be closer to his family in Birmingham hence the move to Villa? I'm sure it was more a personal thing wasn't it? Hutchinson wanted to go to Chelsea as they offered him alot of money. Not sure that is down to bad decision making to be fair.

 

[teamsoutheast]

I think it is fair to say than we've not succeeded with our loan policy, bar perhaps the decision to loan Saliba to Nice and Marseille, which clearly helped his development.

For our academy, we need to do better on the loan side of things.

I don't think that's the case though. Saliba was a top young talent at the time, went to both Nice and Marseille and proved himself at both clubs. Showed character, showed he was better than the players they had there. Our young players, bar 1 or 2 currently out on loan, although they have high potential, are just not good enough and haven't shown enough to give their respective managers reason to drop their current first teamer. They need to show character. There's no time for freeloaders in the footballing world.

 

[MutableEarth]

I don't think that's the case though. Saliba was a top young talent at the time, went to both Nice and Marseille and proved himself at both clubs. Showed character, showed he was better than the players they had there. Our young players, bar 1 or 2 currently out on loan, although they have high potential, are just not good enough and haven't shown enough to give their respective managers reason to drop their current first teamer. They need to show character. There's no time for freeloaders in the footballing world.

I don't think a lot of them will prove to be Arsrnal quality but I do think you're being a bit harsh tbh

 

[Afro Mugo]

Think where we slightly differ is that at the very least we should be more discerning. If they were playing in the beginning then got dropped then fair (re Patino). But more often than not, these players are not actually coming into compete, they're emergency options. Monlouis is a perfect example. I don't think they ever intended for him to be more than a backup, which is disappointing. Same with Sagoe Jr, especially given Swansea had just signed Ronald. It's one thing to raise one's level, it's another when the odds are basically rigged regardless. Khayon Edwards has done OK to be playing, but I know a couple O's and they've basically said he's far from ready (not in the kindest words tbh). In his case, I think injuries have played their part but we need to make sure we do our recon this Summer before he goes back on loan. I'd like to see him go to whoever Darren Moore is managing as he's done alright with a couple of ours (TJJ comes to mind).

Norton-Cuffy has done well I agree, he's made his situation work and I think being the talent with the level of physique he has does help. He'll always compete as a result, as long as he stays fit. I want to see him challenged more on his technical game though and I don't think his loans are doing that enough.


Patino has been ****ed by managerial changes twice in a row in fairness to him. His lack of athleticism doesn't help but still.

I agree with you but I also think this season has been an eye opening season for many clubs with regards to how good the championship has become. Numerous clubs have been shafted. Watched an interview of Carlos Corberan (one of the better modern coaches )talking about Callum Marshall and how he's not yet ready to compete week in week out in that gruesome league. ( Had already scored 16 PL2 goals by January, and is a full N.Ireland international, part of that all conquering West Ham u18 team last season).
I think we'll see a lot more league one/abroad loans next year from PL clubs. Dan Gore, who played pre season and Debuted for Man U this season was sent to league 1 and in hindsight, ,it was probably better for Sagoe Jr. I choose to look at it this way, for every Sagoe Jr and Monlouis , there's a Biereth and Norton Cuffy whom we've handled well. There's still room for improvement but we are on the right steps.
Lastly, I think we often compare ourselves with Chelsea that had all conquering youth teams hence a lot more top talents . When that has hit been the case recently, they have also found it as difficult. Harvey Vale, Xavier Simons, were part of that 03 Bellingham group and have had very **** loans.

 

[teamsoutheast]

Sorry guys, I'm not buying this "loan wasn't a good decision" nonsense. The player also has to also prove himself just as every other professional footballer would. The bottom line is, some of our young players are just not good enough to play at the level they have been put up against. Some of them are struggling at Vanarama National level (Kido Taylor-Hart for example).

We need a serious overhaul of our youth recruitment system which I believe is underway following the acquistion of Brayden Clarke. We need to get the "cream of the crop" as the bar has been raised on every level. Tottenham top the U23 and U18's leagues and that's where we need to be if we are going to have a conveyor belt of talent.

Man City seem to produce ready made EFL players who can just walk into their loan teams.

* Taylor Hawood Bellis STARTS at Southampton. Was also starting when he was at Burnley last season.

* Liam Delap STARTS for Hull.

* Jan Couto STARTS for Girona.

* Luke Mbete STARTS for Den Bosch.

* Alex Robertson STARTS for Portsmouth.


Do you see where I'm going with this? The bar has been raised and we need to be up there which I believe we are doing now but the first team needed the investment initially to get us where we are now. We should see more youth recruitment happen in the summer.

 

[Afro Mugo]

Then they have to give the manager a problem and a reason to play them. Show character, show that you are better than the first teamer ahead of you. Again, it goes back to my example with Monlouis and Tyler Bindon. Bindon just turned 19 in Januar, Monlouis is 21 in October. Bindon starts and has played 35 games Zane Monluis has played 5 minutes from the bench. It's clear, Bindon is better than him and is showing more in training.

We need these players to compete and show character, as a MINIMUM, if they want to get anywhere near pro football. There are tons of teenagers in the EFL who are miles ahead of our guys in terms of ecperience. The, "I play for Arsenal" line isn't gonna cut it quite frankly as certain manager's jobs/reputations/careers are on the line.

Regarding Khayon Edwards, there's a reason those O's have said he's not ready. Now, he has to show character and prove them wrong. I too would love for him to go and play for a Darren Moore but in the real world of football, it's not going to be like that and they MUST adapt to that.

OkDidn't Sousa want to be closer to his family in Birmingham hence the move to Villa? I'm sure it was more a personal thing wasn't it? Hutchinson wanted to go to Chelsea as they offered him alot of money. Not sure that is down to bad decision making to be fair.

Sousa was originally to sign for Aston Villa but the baggies refused to let him go as a lot of coaches and scouts had already switched sides and a few other players. So we were a plan B. I said we didn't plan better as aside from him we've had close to no Left Backs to step up.as Quesada Thorn has struggled with injury. It has resulted in Lewis Skelly , Sweet , Heaven all being played there yet it isn't there best position. I'm no coach but I still believe at some point the players need a consistent position over a long period of time to master atleast one position .