How to solve a problem like Thierry

[Alfonso]

Theirry Henry hasnt been himself so far this season. Most fans have argued that it is due to many a reason, such as the World Cup, loosing in two of footballs biggest finals, and 4-5-1 formation.

The World Cup having a knock on effect on a player's form for the following season is a fair statement to make, but where can we draw the line? It has been 6 months since the World Cup after all. Even Rooney and Ronalidnho have recently showed their old form, and they could also use the same World Cup excuse.

The 4-5-1 which Henry plays in clearly makes him look like a poorer player, but against the European giants of last seasons CL campaign Henry excelled in this formation. Is it fair to say that only a motivated, commited and 100% Henry can play in a 4-5-1?

Loosing in football's two biggest finals is obvioulsy a blow for any player,but surely it also can be used for motivation for the next season, as one would want to make up for it, and prove himself again. Anyway, if i was him i would think its better to loose in two finals, however heartbreaking it was, than playing in teams that get knocked out in say last 16/quater finals. Conversely, if Henry won both those finals, he may be even more unmotivated than he is now, as he won everything and has proven him self throughly.

As i have mentioned previoulsy on this forum, Henry could also be getting stale at Arsenal, i,e Micheal Owen for Liverpool in 2003/2004 before he left for Real. I mean he has been here for so long and consitantly scored us goals and been our best player for so long that just maybe the huge responsbility he has had on his shoulders at Arsenal for the past 8 years has finally caught up with him.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with any of these reasons and its just a fact in football that when a striker reaches 29/30 he is not as good as he once was, e.g Raul, Sheva, Ronaldo, etc. Therefore, we should lower our expectations of Henry as he has past his peak.

For example, we are looking at Henry as if he is still that 25 year old turbo man who used to run around the pitch. This is not reality and we have to take into account this when judging him. However, he is not a veteran yet, and i expected higher of him this season.

To conclude, have we seen the best of Thierry Henry? If not, how can Arsenal solve his recent form and get him back to being the deadliest striker in the world? Is it simply just down to playing him in a 4-4-2 v 4-5-1? I think its deeper than that.

 

[Biggus]

I know what you mean Alfonso......Thierry is Arsenal through and through and it hurts me to see people on his back now.
Its obvious he's off form, but we saw what an off form Henry is capable of against Newcastle. No team with Thierry Henry in it can be written off. I don't think it is the system because a professional like him can adapt. The guy might be carrying an injury or have personal worries so we owe it to him to be patient....form is temporary-class is permanent.

 

[qs]

Its definitly the system. Henry isn't a guy who likes to play up top on his own. He's not a traditional striker, he's best when he can come deep and create and has some one to play passes off. He was at his best last season when he played up front with Adebayor because Ade got into positions that allow Theirry to play 1 - 2s with him and slip little passes in or use Ade as a decoy.

If you watch Henry lately you can see he's not recieving the ball in areas he likes to get it. Plus when he does get it he's always marked. Defenders are finding it too easy to keep him out of the game by doubling up on him in dangerous areas.

And even with all that he still has 7 goals this season, not a bad return really.

 

[Sammer]

Even when Henry IS receiving balls, there are at least three defenders around him.

What do you expect?

 

[Gazza Martinez]

It's a combination of how the structure of the team has changed, as well as Henry dropping a notch in terms of physical prowess. One could write a long dissertation on the how's and why's of it all (I've done at least three or four times on this forum), but the crux of it is that he doesn't operate as well in a 451 in comparison to a 442. His current fitness and mental state is exacerbating the above mentioned problem. I think we might have seen the last of Henry's spectacular one-man wrecking crew days, where he domniates the opposing defense for 80% of the match. He'll probably still have a few this season, but they will become fewer and far between and he'll have to rely more on his wits and his adaptability to the new team environment in order to remain effective.

But, as Biggus said, he's given us so much, the least we can give him is the benefit of the doubt and a little patience.

 

[Don Pacifico]

It's a combination of how the structure of the team has changed, as well as Henry dropping a notch in terms of physical prowess. One could write a long dissertation on the how's and why's of it all (I've done at least three or four times on this forum), but the crux of it is that he doesn't operate as well in a 451 in comparison to a 442. His current fitness and mental state is exacerbating the above mentioned problem. I think we might have seen the last of Henry's spectacular one-man wrecking crew days, where he domniates the opposing defense for 80% of the match. He'll probably still have a few this season, but they will become fewer and far between and he'll have to rely more on his wits and his adaptability to the new team environment in order to remain effective.

But, as Biggus said, he's given us so much, the least we can give him is the benefit of the doubt and a little patience.

Agree with this, rather than mental fragility though, I think Henry's problem is one related to his new role. He has admitted he is not used to it yet, and the role itself does not expect as much from Thierry in terms of a tactical focus. In other words, it is going to be rarer that we see Henry winning games for us, there is now more onus on the rest of the team, especially our midfield (who unfortunately are struggling to score which highlights Henry's lack of form). I've said it before and I'll say it again, Henry's new role is to accomodate not only a change in the emphasis of our play but also a dip in physical form on the part of Titi himself. I think the bottom line is, he will still be a great player for us, but only intermittently, we can longer rely on him to win us matches when we are down.

 

[YuenBiaoFan]

I said, rather jokingly, in the other thread that Henry would be using his suspension time to continue moaning about the WC.

But FFS, from last night's program:

'People might forget how many games I’ve played since January, and in big competitions, because I went pretty far in the Champions League and World Cup.'

No Henry, people haven't forgotten, you say it ****ing 3 times a week!

What is going on with him?

 

[RocktheCasbah]

). I've said it before and I'll say it again, Henry's new role is to accomodate not only a change in the emphasis of our play but also a dip in physical form on the part of Titi himself

You may have said it before, it doesn't mean it makes any more sense. IF this formation change is to to accomodate a decline in Henry's form, it's the daftest thing Wenger's come up with. In 2004, Henry might have been able to play a lone striker role consistently as he was on another planet. Now, as a slightly less explosive, less pacy forward it doesn't make sense to isolate him up front- which is, in effect, what has happened. Especially when it is to the clear detriment of players like van Persie who end up being deployed out of position and when it involves filling the team with midfielders who are not exactly prolific Pires stylee.

 

[Clrnc]

everygame he is always marked. he is not as determined as before, and his finishing is not as convincing as before. in the past he was marked too, but he will fool those marking him. now those marking him have a very very high chance of taking the ball of him.

in the past everygame preview, opposition will be talking about the threats of THENRY. i haven heard that for a long time

 

[Don Pacifico]

). I've said it before and I'll say it again, Henry's new role is to accomodate not only a change in the emphasis of our play but also a dip in physical form on the part of Titi himself

You may have said it before, it doesn't mean it makes any more sense. IF this formation change is to to accomodate a decline in Henry's form, it's the daftest thing Wenger's come up with. In 2004, Henry might have been able to play a lone striker role consistently as he was on another planet. Now, as a slightly less explosive, less pacy forward it doesn't make sense to isolate him up front- which is, in effect, what has happened. Especially when it is to the clear detriment of players like van Persie who end up being deployed out of position and when it involves filling the team with midfielders who are not exactly prolific Pires stylee.

But rather than being the final piece in our formation, I think Henry's new role is one that can suit his lack of physical prowess. If you look at it now, we are relying on men running off Henry from midfield. As they have not scored as many as they should, Henry's poor form has been highlighted as we expect him to score the goals, but I don't think this is Arsène's plan. If Henry is to play a more Bergkamp-esque role as I think many on here believe he is, then it means that rather than being a biggest scoring threat, our collective midfield should be the main threat as Henry lays off the passes for them to burst through the defence from a deeper position, presumably losing their markers whilst there at it. Henry therefore deflects the attention away from our midfield as people expect him to score, so by soaking up the opposition's attention, it allows for our midfield to get into the box almost unnoticed. Of course this has failed to work so far as our midfield haven't found their shooting boots, but there is potential there. That's the way I see it at leastm, hope I haven't rambled aimlessly and that I've actually made some sense.

 

[YuenBiaoFan]

In my eyes the primary problem is his lack of workrate this season. Pick almost any game this season and you will see a static Henry, a completely different player who finished last season.

He's looking almost disinterested at a time in his career professing his love for the club that he should be excelling.

Even when the team did play a 442 he looked lazy.

Can't wait for it to stop TBH.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

See what you're saying, but I still think it's daft, especially given the fact that none of the midfielders at the club are reknowned for goals.

 

[Don Pacifico]

See what you're saying, but I still think it's daft, especially given the fact that none of the midfielders at the club are reknowned for goals.

Essentially what I'm trying to do is rationalise the use of 4-5-1 and the change in Thierry's role. The things Wenger has said about Rosicky make me feel that he is trying to convert him into more of a goalscorer. Added to this, Cesc has a history of scoring at level (although yet to show it at this level) and Baptista is a striker playing in midfield.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

Fair call on Baptista, but then he's not really featured in this 451. And when he came on last night, well I'm not sure what we were playing by then, but it wasn't 451.

 

[IBL]

When I think of quick players who have dealt successfully with losing their pace and energy coming into their 30s I always think of Ryan Giggs. He has a great professional attitude, he's still a hugely important and valuable member of the team. His workrate remains exceptional for a man his age - he still has the hunger and desire to play, I dont see that in Henry currently. The 4-5-1 certainly doesnt favour Henry being up front alone as he's not the type to go chasing after the ball, but for whatever reason he just doesnt seem to be with the programme these days. He may be tired from his WC exertions but he can't play that card forever.

 

[Don Pacifico]

Sure, but I guess even in 4-4-2 there won't be as much onus on Titi to score with the style he is playing currently. I still think Wenger is trying to create a team who score from the midfield, at the end of the day, I'm not even sure Pat Rice knows what Arsène is really thinking.

 

[We Are The Music Makers]

I know what you mean Alfonso......Thierry is Arsenal through and through and it hurts me to see people on his back now.
Its obvious he's off form, but we saw what an off form Henry is capable of against Newcastle. No team with Thierry Henry in it can be written off. I don't think it is the system because a professional like him can adapt. The guy might be carrying an injury or have personal worries so we owe it to him to be patient....form is temporary-class is permanent.

EXACTLY! QFT! How can anyone write this man off, just look how devasting he was for us from January to May. Now all of a sudden over aa couple of months he has lost it? Ridiculous and paranoid. Look at his performances at the world cup and tell me this man has lost it. Even when he is not on top form he has scored six goals for us. Its unfortunate really, when you hit 29 and you have a bad patch you have "lost it". In all fairness he is also a victim of his own success being the living legend that he is. For me this is exactly what people are failing or refusing to consider - THE MAN IS SIMPLY NOT ON FORM. And as poetic as maxims can get, this one comes across as being particularly poignant,
"form is temporary, class is permanent". BE A REAL SUPPORTER AND DO WHAT YOU ARE MEANT TO DO: SUPPORT.

 

[The_byrne]

I support arsenal, but if i have to scrimp and save to afford my season ticket it gives me a right to have a go at any player, and that includes henry.

Setting his form aside, as enough people have spoken about it, i'm gonna have a rant about his attitude. Working backwards, last night at the final whistle he took of his shirt and walked straight off, no applause for the fans he insists stay till the end. His constant ranting at players when he doesn't get the ball (this is because bobby has gone, he will never get the same unstanding with RVP or hleb if he is always having a go). On saturday, while he was off doing his look-at-me celebration willy had got the ball out of the net and taken it back to the centre circle. Against west ham, whilst Gallas was looking like somebody had died in his family at full time, henry was walking off the pitch with his arm round that **** teddy.

If he sorts his attitude out then the form will follow

 

[Alfonso]

Being a supporter doesnt mean you cant critise. To be honest if Henry is evolving into a Bergkamp esk player now that his pace is not once what it was, then surely playing him as a lone striker in a 4-5-1 is a stupid move. If Wenger wants to accomate the changing fortunes of Henry then he should play Henry behind or off the striker, not as THE striker.

Then again, like ive said, Henry was brilliant as the 1 in the 4-5-1 in the CL last season. So has he really gone that downhill in 7 months that he cannot produce that kind of form again?

Also, when Henry scores his celbrations are less dramatic than before. This is another sign of my theory about him being stale.

Our team is growing and only getting better, however Henry is going in the other direction. Is he holding the new Arsenal back?

There are a lot of similarities between Henry this season and Vieria in his last season with us...

 

[RocktheCasbah]

Setting his form aside, as enough people have spoken about it, i'm gonna have a rant about his attitude. Working backwards, last night at the final whistle he took of his shirt and walked straight off, no applause for the fans he insists stay till the end.

I noticed him storm off last night, wasn't sure if he'd acknowledged the fans before he did so. While I can sit here and defend his form, whether or not he was pissed off about that ludicrous yellow card and the lack of protection from the ref last night, I think failing to acknowledge fans you've lambasted for not providing support in the past is very poor form.