Kai Havertz: No More Mr Nice Kai

[2Smokeyy]

It's really not that deep, Havertz as a Xhaka replacement was very exciting on paper, we all talked about how much better we'd be if a player with more offensive qualities played in Xhaka's role. It didn't work out and Arteta has reverted to using him as a false 9 like others have BUT he has him in the form of his PL career.

 

[Sanchez11]

How many is that in all comps?

 

[Farzad Stoned]

twice in one night?

great he had a good game he has had a few, but way too infrequent; if you guys are happy with Kai as our starting striker go to it; he will cost us trophies in the long run. He isn’t good enough if we are serious about winning

 

[Farzad Stoned]

Actually both me and @Farzad Stoned consistently said Arteta will move him to striker in the summer once he realise you can’t take a guy who was never a CM and played 3 years as striker suddenly make him midfielder at the highest level. The response was the usual you think you know better than Arteta

It’s the exact argument facing Timber. You can’t take a guy who never played LB before coming to us and make him top class LB. And good players will do able to do a job here and there. Over time both players get found out

The worst possible idea from the beginning was to play him as a midfielder. He literally can’t make a simple through ball. Worse than his striking is his passing. I don’t know how Mik watched him for 3 years and thought midfielder. His distribution is awful

 

[jaystewart]

Supposedly he was signed to play LCM because Partey played RB a few games at the start of the season. If you remember Gabriel was not in the team at the start of the season and Ben White filled in at centreback so Partey filled in at RB. Partey filled in at RB at the back end of the season before too, he wasn't put there to accomdate Kai. Partey was basically injured from there on - if Kai was LCM he would have to have benched a fit Partey, Rice or Ødegaard. Theres no proof of Arteta ever making that decision.

 

[lomekian]

I'm rewatching the chances he got and could have got yesterday. The more our players spot his runs, then he's going to be prolific.

1. For the first goal he was on the last defenders shoulder all the way and moved into the middle as Trossard shot perfectly positioned. If the shot was spilled he was perfectly positioned for the rebound

2. Receives the ball from White with his back to goal, turns and puts it to the nearside corner. Decent effort, in another game maybe it goes in.

3. Havertz gets in space and Ødegaard gives him a ball to run onto. The keeper suffocates him but in another day maybe it goes in

4. First goal was immense. He receives it shoulder to shoulder with the defender and bullies the defender to get his shot away

5. Second goal, gets the ball out from his feet to make the shot inside the post. It was similar to his first shot that was saved.

6. There was a chance IIRC where Ødegaard had Rice and Havertz in front of him and he picked our Rice who I think was in a worse position. I think this was before Havertz 1st goal. Hopefully, Ødegaard is going to look and pick out Havertz runs now he's having success. The more you feed him, the more he'll score

Also for both White's goals he was in the centre waiting...

 

[Blankety Blank]

I’ll repeat, the club’s mouthpiece outlined the tactical plans for the season, how signing a player like Rice who is a monster defensively and can cover large amounts of space allow us to accommodate two attacking midfielders.

Just cos you can’t recall something doesn’t mean you’re not wrong.

I know it was talked about but imho he was bought as much for his versatility.
He was seen as a squad option that added much needed height & the ability to play more than one position.
Don't forget we were also in for Gundo who was definitely an a more natural AM.

Sure they may have thought he could be a Xhaka replacement at Left 8 but also know he can be used as a 9 with his height or as we have seen the twin flexible role with Trossard.

I honestly don't see why people are so hung up on pigeon holeing players into fixed positions. It's almost rather dated thinking.


If recent recruitment has taught us anything it's that we tend to go for players who are intelligent & can play more than one position.

 

[Rasmi]

The worst possible idea from the beginning was to play him as a midfielder. He literally can’t make a simple through ball. Worse than his striking is his passing. I don’t know how Mik watched him for 3 years and thought midfielder. His distribution is awful

Yeah that’s part of his game that surprised me. How limited his passing is. But I also didn’t know he could work as hard as he does. Shows until you watch players week in week out you don’t really know them

 

[lomekian]

This thread has about 10-20 pages just arguing about what position he was bought to play in...bizarre given that as was said at the time, and since and expressed by his selection in the side, he was bought specifically because he can play CF, AMC or left 8.

As it happens, left 8 didn't work out in this team (though before Xmas when Jesus was back from that injury it started to work well), so Arete went to plan B- using him at CF. Both plans were pre-existing though, and it is to the manager's credit that once it became clear B was better than A, he's pretty much stuck with it, and now Havertz in the EPL is putting up major goal contribution numbers.

In the end, it doesn't matter where any of us think he was bought to play - in the right set up he can be good deepr, but in our current set up he is doing pretty bloody well up front.

Given his age, we should be excited, as looking at how much he's improved as the season has gone on, and his raw tools, there is still plenty of scope for him to turn into the player Chelsea hoped they were getting from Leverkusen, and perhaps even better.

All that really matters is for his flaws, he has stepped up and contributed significantly at the sharp end of the season

 

[TheEliteMaster100_]

He fits our play so well as a false 9 and there’s more to come as we’re still not making the most of his movement.

Honestly he’s made me quite relaxed about the striker situation for next season. Much more worried about what Jesus’s knees will look like than Kai.

He hardly laid a scratch on Dier and De Ligt at the Allianz, nor was he great vs Porto or Bayern at the Emirates.

His UCL campaign has been shocking with only 1 g/a in a 6-0 drubbing of Lens at the Emirates, so with him at CF next season, I'd put less stocks in us doing well with the tightest of margins in the UCL, doesn't help Jesus is a crock and Nelli technical ability is shocking.

Hopefully the club goes big on midfielders too and wingers because without them we don't have a chance in the expanded UCL competition.

 

[db10_therza]

He hardly laid a scratch on Dier and De Ligt at the Allianz, nor was he great vs Porto or Bayern at the Emirates.

His UCL campaign has been shocking with only 1 g/a in a 6-0 drubbing of Lens at the Emirates, so with him at CF next season, I'd put less stocks in us doing with the tightest of margins in the UCL.

Hopefully the club goes big on midfielders too and wingers because without them we don't have a chance in the expanded UCL competition.

This is true. But you should learn to read the room better

Anyway I don’t lay our European problems at the feet of our players. When they all have an off day every time we play a big cup game then you know it’s probably not an issue with the players coz coincidence just isn’t that strong a force in the world.

Our setups and mindset in those games were suboptimal to say the least.

 

[LookingForEric]

We all saw it bro.

And it didn’t work. At all.

I personally don’t believe you can say something absolutely didn’t work after just 2 games.

I’d like to see it again but in a different way with different players.

 

[Sanchez11]

Reckon he gets 15+ next season.

 

[Maybe]

He hardly laid a scratch on Dier and De Ligt at the Allianz, nor was he great vs Porto or Bayern at the Emirates.

His UCL campaign has been shocking with only 1 g/a in a 6-0 drubbing of Lens at the Emirates, so with him at CF next season, I'd put less stocks in us doing well with the tightest of margins in the UCL, doesn't help Jesus is a crock and Nelli technical ability is shocking.

Hopefully the club goes big on midfielders too and wingers because without them we don't have a chance in the expanded UCL competition.

He might even put some decent numbers against the good sides once we have a proper LF and LCM. If we improve in those areas he might reach some 15-20 PL goals as a CF and people would get off his back

 

[db10_therza]

I personally don’t believe you can say something absolutely didn’t work after just 2 games.

I’d like to see it again but in a different way with different players.

Show me a line up with Havertz in midfield that doesn’t make me want to throw up challenge

For real though the sacrifices aren’t worth it. He’s not good enough there to justify dropping whoever it is you’re gonna have to drop to get him in midfield.

False 9 is where he’s at, for better or worse (it’s better mainly).

 

[Blankety Blank]

Actually both me and @Farzad Stoned consistently said Arteta will move him to striker in the summer once he realise you can’t take a guy who was never a CM and played 3 years as striker suddenly make him midfielder at the highest level. The response was the usual you think you know better than Arteta

It’s the exact argument facing Timber. You can’t take a guy who never played LB before coming to us and make him top class LB. And good players will do able to do a job here and there. Over time both players get found out

Perhaps but we now have Ben White who was bought as a CB playing RB.

Tomi was seen as a RB/CB when he arrived & now often plays LB.
Xhaka last season played AM when he has played DM for pretty much all his career.

Just coz Kai hasnt looked great as an AM doesn't necessarily mean Timber won't be a decent LB option.

 

[Blankety Blank]

And White. Ben fitness is super impressive

Sad thing is Ben was getting slated by certain men on here b4 Dubai as he was playing with an injury.

 

[db10_therza]

Show me a line up with Havertz in midfield that doesn’t make me want to throw up challenge

For real though the sacrifices aren’t worth it. He’s not good enough there to justify dropping whoever it is you’re gonna have to drop to get him in midfield.

False 9 is where he’s at, for better or worse (it’s better mainly).

Should add @LookingForEric the reasons Partey at RB didn’t work (and never will imo) is simply because it amplified his worst attributes : 1on1 defending and stamina. Also he’d find himself quite far forward in our attack at times and genuinely looked completely clueless with what to do.

On top of this we lost Ben White the right back who has been one of the players of the season, and Gabriel Megalith who has also been one of our players of the season.

More damage than it’s worth…

 

[Rasmi]

Perhaps but we now have Ben White who was bought as a CB playing RB.

Tomi was seen as a RB/CB when he arrived & now often plays LB.
Xhaka last season played AM when he has played DM for pretty much all his career.

Just coz Kai hasnt looked great as an AM doesn't necessarily mean Timber won't be a decent LB option.

Decent LB option is not good enough if we want to be an elite team. He has to be top level LB. No one would argue if Timber was being converted full time tonRB. But LB is completely different.

 

[LookingForEric]

Show me a line up with Havertz in midfield that doesn’t make me want to throw up challenge

For real though the sacrifices aren’t worth it. He’s not good enough there to justify dropping whoever it is you’re gonna have to drop to get him in midfield.

False 9 is where he’s at, for better or worse (it’s better mainly).

In possession of the ball -

New CM/Partey
Ødegaard - Rice
Havertz
Saka - New ST/Jesus - Martinelli/Trossard