Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[OnlyOne]

Wasted our precious resources on Havertz who does not solve our midfield situation nor our striking situation. So why should be given more allocated funds?

I thought this click was going to be bad given the outrage

 

[LookingForEric]

I haven’t seen a single person say who can replace him btw, so anyone also saying “don’t give him funds” think about what you’re saying.

I’d rather give Mikel/Edu the funds than any other duo in world football other than Pep.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

And if you’re not going to give any form of context then I’m also going to bow out because you can’t seem to separate NOW and HISTORY.

Mikel = Klopp = Pep right now, fairly obvious given what’s happened this season.

Klopp = Pep = Fergie = Wenger etc etc with trophies

Arteta = ETH = Potter = Southgate etc etc if we’re just going off big trophies/titles.

It doesn't work like that, Pep is winning trophies last 15 years, Klopp more than 10 years.
First, Arteta must win something big (Prem or UCL) to be considered to be with them.
Second, he must be consistent to compete with best managers, not just 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[LookingForEric]

It doesn't work like that, Pep is winning trophies last 15 years, Klopp more than 10 years.
First, Arteta must win something big (Prem or UCL) to be considered to be with them.
Second, he must be consistent to compete with best managers, not just 1 or 2 seasons.

You have got to be joking? After everything I have just explained you’ve quite literally done the thing I’ve been arguing about.

 

[lomekian]

It all depends what you mean by competitive. If you mean challenging for the title, I agree. Arteta is a very good coach, but to win the title you need to be a very good manager. And the two are different. When the chips are down the manager has to carry you over the line with the right man management skills and mentality. We’re talking human relationships. Wenger, SAF, Klopp and Pep all had that ability. Does Arteta? We’re about to find out.

Well tbf only Pep inherititng an elite squad and some generational youngsters managed to win anything in their first 4 years. Lets not forget that this far in, despite managing a huge club and having a big budget for the time (in his second job), was an injury time 5th round cup winning goal away from getting fired.

Not remotely ranking Arteta with those you mention, but beating Pep to a title has proved almost impossible for all but the very best, in 3 differeny countries.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

You have got to be joking? After everything I have just explained you’ve quite literally done the thing I’ve been arguing about.

And what if next season we lose both matches against City in league?
Thomas Frank and Brentford did the double against City last season.
Does this mean that Frank is the same level as Pep?

The fact that we took 8 pts from Klopp and Pep this season shows certain progress, but it doesn't mean that Arteta is immediately same level as them.

 

[Rasmi]

Wasted our precious resources on Havertz who does not solve our midfield situation nor our striking situation. So why should be given more allocated funds?

It sounds like he want a striker who can score 30 goals. I was told that’s not his style and he didn’t want it. Interesting

 

[Makingtrax]

Well tbf only Pep inherititng an elite squad and some generational youngsters managed to win anything in their first 4 years. Lets not forget that this far in, despite managing a huge club and having a big budget for the time (in his second job), was an injury time 5th round cup winning goal away from getting fired.

Not remotely ranking Arteta with those you mention, but beating Pep to a title has proved almost impossible for all but the very best, in 3 differeny countries.

You forget, we were leading by a country mile last year until the last few games. We just needed to continue doing what we were doing and Pep couldn't touch us. Pep didn't beat us. We threw it away, hence my post.

 

[Penn_]

I'm disappointed he didn't really have a plan for their pace in wide areas other than hoping Tomi has a good game. Throwing all three left backs at it is poor, hell if Tierney was here maybe he would've been given a half too.

Our shape is fluid but there is still a rigidity that we won't divert from. Tuchel saw what Saka did in the first leg and rendered him irrelevant.

Could we have not have placed Zinchenko ahead of Tomi? Something in that sort of mould.

 

[HattoriHanzo]

You forget, we were leading by a country mile last year until the last few games. We just needed to continue doing what we were doing and Pep couldn't touch us. Pep didn't beat us. We threw it away, hence my post.

8 pts maximum lead with City having 1 game in hand (9 matches left for Arsenal, 10 for City and one of remaining matches is at Etihad).
Hardly a country mile for City last season.

 

[LookingForEric]

And what if next season we lose both matches against City in league?
Thomas Frank and Brentford did the double against City last season.
Does this mean that Frank is the same level as Pep?

The fact that we took 8 pts from Klopp and Pep this season shows certain progress, but it doesn't mean that Arteta is immediately same level as them.

Again, not my point. The main point is challenging for the league two years running against Pep/Klopp as well as beating them this year.

 

[lomekian]

Because they have combined extreme financial doping with an all-time great manager. Their wage bill is still extreme despite efforts to cut it down which allows to have world class players everywhere, including on the bench.

The worst part is the media does everything to ignore this and played up the Pep vs. Klopp rivalry like it was an equal fight, despite Klopp having just above half the available money to spend on wages etc. Guardiola is obviously brilliant but the fact Klopp has even managed to challenge him in the ways he has is baffling when you consider the financial aspects. Arsenal has spent a lot on players recently in an effort to catch up but they're still years of spending behind + way below City's wage bill still.

Ferguson turned Man Utd into the giant it became. They hadn't won a league title in like 30 years or something before he arrived IIRC. Guardiola brought his elite skillset to a ready-made doped up juggernaut.

Also the inflationary effect of Chelsea and City on both fees and wages have been a massive detriment to club football as a whole.

 

[Makingtrax]

8 pts maximum lead with City having 1 game in hand (9 matches left for Arsenal, 10 for City and one of remaining matches is at Etihad).
Hardly a country mile for City last season.

Bro, we were flying and then suddenly drew with Southampton and West Ham and lost to Brighton and Nottingham Forest. That wasn't Pep beating us, we threw it away and ended up 5 points behind.

 

[LookingForEric]

Bro, we were flying and then suddenly drew with Southampton and West Ham and lost to Brighton and Nottingham Forest. That wasn't Pep beating us, we threw it away and ended up 5 points behind.

After the Sp**s loss City won FOURTEEN, yes fourteen out of the next 15 games. City went on a 12 game winning streak to win the title.

That my friend, is also Pep beating us.

 

[lomekian]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1780560958433145025

I get what you're saying but this resonated with me that I had to share. Beating City to a title is a behemoth task but one that is certainly doable. Let's not forget Leicester beat City to a title that was led by Pep. Let's not act like we aren't spending crazy sums of money too. We beat City to sign Rice.

How can you complain about City's money when you have beaten them to a player's signature? If money was that much of a game-changer then Chelsea and United would be flourishing. Are we going to blame City for Arsenal keeping Eddie, Nelson and ESR? Should we blame City's 115 charges on Arsenal buying Vieira and Havertz? Is Pep to blame for Partey, Jesus and Zinny getting injured?

Beating City the season they get 66 points is not the same as beating them when they 73 points with 6 games left to play. And for the record, Pep joined AFTER that season.

Pep is a genius for sure, but when you can pay your third string players who get 5 games a season 200k a week, and you already inherited one of the most expensively assembled squads of all time at that point (including players he had got them to buy in advance for big fees) with a number of elite pieces and then spent £1.5 billion on players.

You are attempting to equate apples with sausages to suit your general consistent thrust.

And on the individual points you raise, would it have been better to let eddie and nelson walk for nothing with no-one to replace their limited minutes? Would it have been wise to give up on ESR before knowing he would miss 18 months of football?

Re Vieira and Havertz...the choices were not down to city, but the prices were hugely influnced by them. And no Pep is not to blame for those injuries, but equally those players getting more injuries than before despite playign less minutes isn't Arteta's either.

No-one is denying that Pep is a brilliant coach who has used always having more resources than his rivals brilliantly.

But your willingness to completely gloss over their advantages (and by extension their breaking both the rules and the law) would make Sky Sports proud.

 

[Makingtrax]

After the Sp**s loss City won FOURTEEN, yes fourteen out of the next 15 games. City went on a 12 game winning streak to win the title.

That my friend, is also Pep beating us.

No it's not. We ended up 5 points behind. What if we'd beaten Forest, West Ham and Southampton . . all in the bottom half of the league (Southampton bottom ffs). Answer that.

 

[dka1]

I think before we draw lines in the sand and come to definitive conclusions we should at least see how the season plays out.

As unlikely as it may be, if we win the league from here there'll be some awkward comments to walk back.

Yes the defeat to Bayern was disappointing, yes we're not looking great at the moment but we all know how quickly football can change.

We've got Wolves next I'm hoping for some kind of response then. Please Arsenal.

 

[lomekian]

City won the title last season with 89 points. That points tally doesn't even crack the top ten. Even if City win every game left of this season, they would be on 94 points, which would be the sixth-highest points tally ever.

Yes, it is harder to win the league but there has been a points tally inflation for the last decade or so.

Points tally inflation?

So these teams getting higher numbers of points doesn't reflect their excellence but rather natural forces? Christ, you sound like a Tory finance minister...

 

[lomekian]

Are you ****ing kidding me? Those guys were signed for a combined £17m, £10m of it was Ince ffs

Guardiola spent £427m in his two seasons. This comparison is ridiculous, I can't even ****ing believe you're making this argument.

Guardiola spends £427m: Pure brilliance mate flawless manager.

Ferguson spends £17m: Pure checkbook he's nothing without the money.

I think your bias is showing a bit mate.

Even taking football inflation into account this point stands firm

 

[albakos]