Mikel Arteta: Aston La Vista To The Title?

[krengon]

Rings a bell, thought I was rock bottom, guess I am now.

I have stopped predicting rock bottoms for us now lol.

so many times I've thought we've reached it the past 2-3 years, only for them to prove me wrong

 

[tcahill]

I think the manager people should be comparing Arteta to, at the moment, is Pochettino at Sp**s (ignoring that Arteta has actually won trophies already).

Potch went to Sp**s and immediately imposed a rigid structure on a shaky Sp**s team. It was clear how he wanted Sp**s to play (with structured buildup and pressing), but the early results weren't impressive. Sp**s looked too structured, were lacking creativity and seemed incapable of scoring goals. In his first season, they finished seventh with 64 points - a decline on the previous years' performance.

There were however some positive signs of Sp**s becoming a more competitive outfit, particularly in the big games. Sp**s were routinely thumped by their rivals before Potch arrived (sound familiar?). However, despite finishing with fewer points overall, Potch's Sp**s took more points off their big-6 rivals, and (while still losing more than they won) those losses were becoming much closer. Sp**s GD vs. the top 6 went from -24 the season before Potch arrived, to -11 in his first season.

A bigger improvement was noticeable in Potch's second season. They still weren't scoring much, but they were becoming a very difficult team to play against. Their GD improved by about 30 (mostly thanks to their defence) and - while slipping up too often against the weaker sides - they were now holding their own against the big 6, winning more than they lost and finishing with a +6 GD against their rivals. People were now starting to respect Sp**s as a very difficult team to play against: no longer a "soft touch". However, the classic refrain was that Sp**s would never score enough under Potch to compete at the top level.

Then, in his third season - and apparently out of nowhere - Potch's attack exploded. Sp**s finished with 86 points and were the top scorers in the league. Their defence also continued its year-on-year improvement. This wasn't due to any new signings (Sp**s that summer bought Victor Janssen and Moussa Sissoko); rather, the structure that Potch had been working on for the previous two seasons finally 'clicked'.

Now I'm not saying that Arteta is necessarily on the same trajectory here. However, I do think it's worth highlighting that there are a lot of similarities. Arteta also wants his team to play in a very structured manner, and (while the attack looks dreadful) it's clear to me that we've improved massively as a defensive unit, and are much more competitive vs. our rivals. In fact, if we are on the same trajectory as Sp**s under Potch, it looks like we're progressing a lot quicker than they did (especially on that trophy front). Bottom line is that I think people should be patient with the attack. Arteta's is trying to instil a new structured way of playing, which will always benefit the defence more quickly than the offence (which thrives on fluidity). Over time, those structures and patterns of play will hopefully become second-nature.

Essay over.

Only time will tell if you're right or not, but I just have to say that is an absolutely great post. An interesting opinion backed up by good evidence, far better than the usual reactionary stuff on here.

 

[Trilly]

I think the manager people should be comparing Arteta to, at the moment, is Pochettino at Sp**s (ignoring that Arteta has actually won trophies already).

Potch went to Sp**s and immediately imposed a rigid structure on a shaky Sp**s team. It was clear how he wanted Sp**s to play (with structured buildup and pressing), but the early results weren't impressive. Sp**s looked too structured, were lacking creativity and seemed incapable of scoring goals. In his first season, they finished seventh with 64 points - a decline on the previous years' performance.

There were however some positive signs of Sp**s becoming a more competitive outfit, particularly in the big games. Sp**s were routinely thumped by their rivals before Potch arrived (sound familiar?). However, despite finishing with fewer points overall, Potch's Sp**s took more points off their big-6 rivals, and (while still losing more than they won) those losses were becoming much closer. Sp**s GD vs. the top 6 went from -24 the season before Potch arrived, to -11 in his first season.

A bigger improvement was noticeable in Potch's second season. They still weren't scoring much, but they were becoming a very difficult team to play against. Their GD improved by about 30 (mostly thanks to their defence) and - while slipping up too often against the weaker sides - they were now holding their own against the big 6, winning more than they lost and finishing with a +6 GD against their rivals. People were now starting to respect Sp**s as a very difficult team to play against: no longer a "soft touch". However, the classic refrain was that Sp**s would never score enough under Potch to compete at the top level.

Then, in his third season - and apparently out of nowhere - Potch's attack exploded. Sp**s finished with 86 points and were the top scorers in the league. Their defence also continued its year-on-year improvement. This wasn't due to any new signings (Sp**s that summer bought Victor Janssen and Moussa Sissoko); rather, the structure that Potch had been working on for the previous two seasons finally 'clicked'.

Now I'm not saying that Arteta is necessarily on the same trajectory here. However, I do think it's worth highlighting that there are a lot of similarities. Arteta also wants his team to play in a very structured manner, and (while the attack looks dreadful) it's clear to me that we've improved massively as a defensive unit, and are much more competitive vs. our rivals. In fact, if we are on the same trajectory as Sp**s under Potch, it looks like we're progressing a lot quicker than they did (especially on that trophy front). Bottom line is that I think people should be patient with the attack. Arteta's is trying to instil a new structured way of playing, which will always benefit the defence more quickly than the offence (which thrives on fluidity). Over time, those structures and patterns of play will hopefully become second-nature.

Essay over.

Hope so man, but they had what he had done at Southampton to fall back on.

We have glowing recommendations.

 

[GDeep™]

People here kid themselves that we have a good defence because ****ing Leeds got unlucky with double figures attempts

They were cutting us up at will. The defence hasn’t improved at all, we’ve just put 10 men behind the ball and totally neglected the attack.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

They were cutting us up at will. The defence hasn’t improved at all, we’ve just put 10 men behind the ball and totally neglected the attack.

It looked way better with Martinez marshaling the defense.

 

[Rasmi]

People here kid themselves that we have a good defence because ****ing Leeds got unlucky with double figures attempts

wehave a decent defence, but we been riding our luck. I cant see us having top 5 defences in the league by the end of it. Will probably concede 47-50 goals

 

[DUFFMAN]

They were cutting us up at will. The defence hasn’t improved at all, we’ve just put 10 men behind the ball and totally neglected the attack.

Against Leicester we attacked from the start.

There was most definitely not 10 men behind the ball.

 

[Kav]

That is not the dominant view today. Following Guardiola's success at Barcelona (Pep is about as structured as its possible to be), the majority of top coaches have adopted at least some elements of his 'positional-play' philosophy (which he developed from guys like Van Gaal, Cruyff and Michels). And Arteta is a Pep disciple.

E.g. both CL finalists from last season (Tuchel and Flick) had highly structured attacks, as have all the recent PL winners (Pep, Klopp and Conte). Like it or not, that's how modern teams play.

I do not doubt your argument that a number of coaches have adopted that kind of system. It was very successful however we have seen that style of play become redundant due to the modern press and transition games many teams employ. You have Zonal blocks that shift across the pitch and transition much quicker than the deliberate build up style that both Pep and Arteta rely on. Which is why Peps team struggles with both low block defenses and teams that transition very quickly.

That being said this is not so much about Pep but rather Arteta’s insistence on being rigid with his system. He needs to find the balance to allow expression on the pitch.

 

[Manberg]

An attacking midfielder and a creative winger would instantly take us up three levels and we'll look much better going forward.

 

[GDeep™]

Against Leicester we attacked from the start.

There was most definitely not 10 men behind the ball.

Yeah, that’s great.

Generally though, we’ve set up and played on the back foot.

 

[GDeep™]

An attacking midfielder and a creative winger would instantly take us up three levels and we'll look much better going forward.

Like Özil and Willian?

 

[Kav]

It is funny that we are playing with such rigidity as I do believe we have the tools here to succeed.

We have quick wingers: Nelson, Saka, Pepe.
Good striker: Auba , Laca
Creative midfielder: Özil, Willian
Dynamic Midfielder: Ceballos, Partey, ESR
Defensive Midfielder: Elneny , Partey
Box to box: Willock

So I don’t see why we can’t get a fluid attack going if we utilize our personnel effectively and play to their strengths.

 

[Macho]

It is funny that we are playing with such rigidity as I do believe we have the tools here to succeed.

We have quick wingers: Nelson, Saka, Pepe.
Good striker: Auba , Laca
Creative midfielder: Özil, Willian
Dynamic Midfielder: Ceballos, Partey, ESR
Defensive Midfielder: Elneny , Partey
Box to box: Willock

So I don’t see why we can’t get a fluid attack going if we utilize our personnel effectively and play to their strengths.

They are all crap didn’t you know.

Leeds, Villa, Southampton and Brighton have much better squads to play their attacking football.

 

[DUFFMAN]

Partey back in the team and Saka and we will see a huge difference.

We were missing 4 first team players on sunday.

 

[Manberg]

Like Özil and Willian?

Naah. Players like Firmino and Ziyech. What I had in mind.

 

[Mo Britain]

It is funny that we are playing with such rigidity as I do believe we have the tools here to succeed.

We have quick wingers: Nelson, Saka, Pepe.
Good striker: Auba , Laca
Creative midfielder: Özil, Willian
Dynamic Midfielder: Ceballos, Partey, ESR
Defensive Midfielder: Elneny , Partey
Box to box: Willock

So I don’t see why we can’t get a fluid attack going if we utilize our personnel effectively and play to their strengths.

Seems to me our players are being drilled to make keeping possession a priority over breaking quickly. Works against us in attack because our build-up play is predictable, often too slow and taking too many touches to get the ball upfield. Also works against us when we play the ball at the back under pressure with little reward and huge potential downsides. We should be taking risks in the opponent's half, not our own.

You are right. We have plenty of quality in the team to be playing brighter attacking football than we are managing at the moment. Complaints about the players is a reaction to bad results and bad play but most of our premiership rivals would kill to have the squad we have.

 

[DanDare]

You can debate the quality of the players in the context of top 4 but at the moment Arteta isn't getting top half performances out of them

 

[gamechannel]

For all the Arteta backers, some comtext:

If Aston Villa, ManU and Man City all win their games in hand, we will be in 15th place. Sure its early days but the hole is likely to get deeper as 4 out of our next PL games are against Tottenham, Everton, Chelsea and Wolves.

 

[Macho]

You can debate the quality of the players in the context of top 4 but at the moment Arteta isn't getting top half performances out of them

All I’ve been trying to say this whole time. Crap on the roster all you like but there’s literally no excuse for some of the stuff we’ve seen.

I’m all for giving Arteta time and more transfer windows if he can’t be bothered to make some of these players work, but some of the stuff I’ve seen in his defence is ridiculous.

 

[GoonerJay24]

Like Özil and Willian?

Both are too old