PL: Arsenal vs Watford | 14/10/06

[rajkurupt]

um first time we beat united in the league AWAY! in years was thanks to him...how can u say anything bad against the YOUNG lad.....leave him be he's growing every game. i rate him 10 times higher then daddy long legs from 'pool..

 

[asajoseph]

um first time we beat united in the league AWAY! in years was thanks to him...how can u say anything bad against the YOUNG lad.....leave him be he's growing every game. i rate him 10 times higher then daddy long legs from 'pool..

Actually, we beat Man Utd. away thanks to Fabregas more than Adebayor, although his finish was certainly cool, and he did the business when called upon.

 

[Tarek]

I think he's a class act and his touch is improving game by game. He's still so young please remember that. I see him as Arsenal's future front man much more than van Persie.

 

[sesquioxide]

... I've heard him take all kinds of stick constantly to be honest, no matter what; every little thing he does is under the microscope in a way that doesn't apply to other players in the team.

I absolutely agree with this, Captain. He is treated really unfairly, in my opinion, and if I remember correctly even in the Old Trafford post mortem people managed to dig up criticisms to throw at him. Some of us even attribute our near missing out on the Champions League on his performance at Portsmouth, when there are many, many more people and many more performances to assign blame to (e.g. Sol Campbell against West Ham). We wouldn't be fans if we don't moan, but in Adebayor's case it really does seem to me we are going too far.

I suppose though that it is a matter of time when people will start appreciating him for what he is and what he does. (Or if for nothing else, Arsenal fans will remember him fondly for the goal at Old Trafford for at least a decade.) I don't think I was reading Arsenal-Mania a year ago, but if I remembered when going around the BBC fora (where I feel the fans think similarly to fans here) Helb got a lot of abuse too when he first came as well. He still gets abuse now, but it has noticeably diminished. The same would probably be true for Adebayor as well. (And I hope he speed the process up by scoring a goal at Stamford Bridge.)

But I think we need to seriously ask ourselves if we actually deserve the players who play for us rather than whether the players deserve to play for us. It's really a two way street, and players will play better if the fans give them their proper credit rather than dismissing their accomplishments by crediting them to others and/or the formation or, worse yet, by simply ignoring them.

 

[Lukazan]

Nah, there is always a difference. Much like the forum, the stadium is the same. If Henry runs into a defender or misplaces his 10th pass the odd person will make a comment like "he's not on his game today" and everyone will just say nothing.

If Ade miscontrols one pass (which he shouldn't have), everyone is on their feet and unaminous in their voicing of dissapointment.

There is a major difference between the way that players are treated at the ground.

As I said, in my experience this season that's been totally untrue. Perhaps Henry gets more leniency, but then scoring 30 goals a season generally affords you that. New players too also tend to get a little more leniency, because people are excited about the 'big name signing', and don't see the flaws in their games so quickly - Rosicky, Gallas, and Baptista have all benefitted from this, although interestingly I don't feel Hleb ever did last season. But, in comparison to players like Gilberto, Hleb, van Persie, Hoyte, Eboue, Senderos, Adebayor is treated no differently at all.

Maybe it's just where you're sitting, but I've certainly heard the 'Adebayor, Adebayor' chant more times than I've ever heard anyone jeer at him, or indeed than I've ever heard a Hleb or Gilberto chant.

I don't think I've heard a Hleb chant full stop...

Does one even exist?

 

[asajoseph]

I think he's a class act and his touch is improving game by game. He's still so young please remember that. I see him as Arsenal's future front man much more than van Persie.

I wouldn't ever see Adebayor as a long-term first choice at Arsenal, if only because even if you appreciate his style and the benefits he brings, there are still plenty of strikers who do what he does, just better.

 

[RocktheCasbah]

If Ade miscontrols one pass (which he shouldn't have), everyone is on their feet and unaminous in their voicing of dissapointment.

There is a major difference between the way that players are treated at the ground.

I've been to all but the Villa game this season and haven't seen any evidence of that. But then it's a big stadium..

 

[asajoseph]

Nah, there is always a difference. Much like the forum, the stadium is the same. If Henry runs into a defender or misplaces his 10th pass the odd person will make a comment like "he's not on his game today" and everyone will just say nothing.

If Ade miscontrols one pass (which he shouldn't have), everyone is on their feet and unaminous in their voicing of dissapointment.

There is a major difference between the way that players are treated at the ground.

As I said, in my experience this season that's been totally untrue. Perhaps Henry gets more leniency, but then scoring 30 goals a season generally affords you that. New players too also tend to get a little more leniency, because people are excited about the 'big name signing', and don't see the flaws in their games so quickly - Rosicky, Gallas, and Baptista have all benefitted from this, although interestingly I don't feel Hleb ever did last season. But, in comparison to players like Gilberto, Hleb, van Persie, Hoyte, Eboue, Senderos, Adebayor is treated no differently at all.

Maybe it's just where you're sitting, but I've certainly heard the 'Adebayor, Adebayor' chant more times than I've ever heard anyone jeer at him, or indeed than I've ever heard a Hleb or Gilberto chant.

I don't think I've heard a Hleb chant full stop...

Does one even exist?

You mean apart from 'Shoooot! Shooooot!'?

I think we should write one, he needs it...

 

[sesquioxide]

I think he's a class act and his touch is improving game by game. He's still so young please remember that. I see him as Arsenal's future front man much more than van Persie.

I wouldn't ever see Adebayor as a long-term first choice at Arsenal, if only because even if you appreciate his style and the benefits he brings, there are still plenty of strikers who do what he does, just better.

Oh, come on, do you not think that Adebayor can improve? In 2003, "O Fenômeno" Ronaldo went to Old Trafford and scored a hat trick there (in 67 minutes), an achievement not even Henry has managed now. At that time did you say you don't see Henry as our long-term first choice because someone else (i.e. Ronaldo) can do better?

 

[asajoseph]

I think he's a class act and his touch is improving game by game. He's still so young please remember that. I see him as Arsenal's future front man much more than van Persie.

I wouldn't ever see Adebayor as a long-term first choice at Arsenal, if only because even if you appreciate his style and the benefits he brings, there are still plenty of strikers who do what he does, just better.

Oh, come on, do you not think that Adebayor can improve? In 2003, "O Fenômeno" Ronaldo went to Old Trafford and scored a hat trick there (in 67 minutes), an achievement not even Henry has managed now. At that time did you say you don't see Henry as our long-term first choice because someone else (i.e. Ronaldo) can do better?

Eh? Henry was always known as a highly talented player, from his days in Monaco and as an international before he joined Juve. People have this idea that he was a complete unknown before Wenger signed him, because he stagnated somewhat at Juventus, but that's just not the case.

Either way, Adebayor won't be the only striker to improve as time goes by, he hardly owns a monopoly on that.

 

[patrick42uk]

um first time we beat united in the league AWAY! in years was thanks to him...how can u say anything bad against the YOUNG lad.....leave him be he's growing every game. i rate him 10 times higher then daddy long legs from 'pool..

Actually, we beat Man Utd. away thanks to Fabregas more than Adebayor, although his finish was certainly cool, and he did the business when called upon.

lol. i'm sorry but that comes across as being very childish.

 

[Captain]

If Ade miscontrols one pass (which he shouldn't have), everyone is on their feet and unaminous in their voicing of dissapointment.

There is a major difference between the way that players are treated at the ground.

I've been to all but the Villa game this season and haven't seen any evidence of that. But then it's a big stadium..

When you go next week (if the game is boring) pay attention to the different reactions that different players get and you'll know what I'm talking about.

 

[asajoseph]

um first time we beat united in the league AWAY! in years was thanks to him...how can u say anything bad against the YOUNG lad.....leave him be he's growing every game. i rate him 10 times higher then daddy long legs from 'pool..

Actually, we beat Man Utd. away thanks to Fabregas more than Adebayor, although his finish was certainly cool, and he did the business when called upon.

lol. i'm sorry but that comes across as being very childish.

Suit yourself.

Personally, I think that making a tackle in the midfield, beating two players, and then playing an inch perfect through ball past the entire defence to a relatively static striker leaving him one on with the keeper in front of goal 7 yards out is probably the 'moment of magic', rather than that finish. It was a good finish, under pressure, but it was one any striker worth his salt would expect to make, although that's no discredit to Adebayor.

Point is, it's completely ridiculous to give him the credit for beating the mancs, when his task in the decisive action of the game was actually relatively simple.

 

[sesquioxide]

I think he's a class act and his touch is improving game by game. He's still so young please remember that. I see him as Arsenal's future front man much more than van Persie.

I wouldn't ever see Adebayor as a long-term first choice at Arsenal, if only because even if you appreciate his style and the benefits he brings, there are still plenty of strikers who do what he does, just better.

Oh, come on, do you not think that Adebayor can improve? In 2003, "O Fenômeno" Ronaldo went to Old Trafford and scored a hat trick there (in 67 minutes), an achievement not even Henry has managed now. At that time did you say you don't see Henry as our long-term first choice because someone else (i.e. Ronaldo) can do better?

Eh? Henry was always known as a highly talented player, from his days in Monaco and as an international before he joined Juve. People have this idea that he was a complete unknown before Wenger signed him, because he stagnated somewhat at Juventus, but that's just not the case.

Either way, Adebayor won't be the only striker to improve as time goes by, he hardly owns a monopoly on that.

I was just trying to make the point that it is absurd to refuse to think of a player as a long-term first choice just because there are better players out there, because we will never have a monopoly over all the best players in the world. Not even Chelsea can think like that.

And Adebayor's club record as a 21 year old would easily equal Henry's at that age. Henry had 20 goals out of 105 appearances for Monaco. Adebayor would have 18 goals out of 78 appearances for them. As a 22 year old, Henry did not score in 10 games since joining Arsenal. Adebayor scored the very first game he played for us and went on to score 4 goals in the first 10 games he played as a 21 year old. But thank goodness Arsenal gave Henry a chance to acclimate to the club, no? Let's give Adebayor a year or two more before we even start thinking about whether he should be a long-term first team player or not?

 

[patrick42uk]

whatever. i'm not even going to contest that post which is so bias-ridden i wouldnt know where to begin.

anyway, i'm trying to avoid these 'my favorite player is better than your favorite player' arguments that seem to develop in just about every thread. its too time-consuming trying to argue constructively with someone whose opinions regarding certain players could, for all we know, be motivated by social/cultural perceptions.

 

[asajoseph]

I was just trying to make the point that it is absurd to refuse to think of a player as a long-term first choice just because there are better players out there, because we will never have a monopoly over all the best players in the world. Not even Chelsea can think like that.

It's one thing if there are one or two players better than Adebayor in the world. It's quite another if there's a handful in your own league.

 

[asajoseph]

whatever. i'm not even going to contest that post which is so bias-ridden i wouldnt know where to begin.

Suit yourself, although if you didn't want a response perhaps you shouldn't have commented in the first place eh?

anyway, i'm trying to avoid these 'my favorite player is better than your favorite player' arguments that seem to develop in just about every thread. its too time-consuming trying to argue constructively with someone whose opinions regarding certain players , for all we know, be motivated by social/cultural perceptions.

Elaborate on that, please...

 

[patrick42uk]

the response wasnt for your benefit.

 

[sesquioxide]

I was just trying to make the point that it is absurd to refuse to think of a player as a long-term first choice just because there are better players out there, because we will never have a monopoly over all the best players in the world. Not even Chelsea can think like that.

It's one thing if there are one or two players better than Adebayor in the world. It's quite another if there's a handful in your own league.

If you compare with people like Drogba, Shevchenko, etc., then that would be true. But for a kid at the age of 21? Let's compare with Rooney (about the same age as Adebayor), shall we? Rooney scored 38 goals in 97 domestic league appearances. That's about 39%. Adebayor scored 6 goals in 19 domestic league appearances, and that's about 31%. It does look like it's a bit off from Rooney, but do remember that Adebayor's statistic is still susceptible to noise, such that if he had scored only 1 more goal then the percentage rises to 37%. (I don't know how many of those appearances are from the bench or as starters, but I'm pretty sure Rooney started relatively more often and had more actual play time. I am sure if that factor is considered in then Adebayor is at most a hair off of Rooney.) And even if Rooney is better, how much do you think we need to pay to get Rooney from Manchester United? So really, let's be fair to Adebayor, shall we?

 

[kamikaze80]

I don't think I've heard a Hleb chant full stop...

Does one even exist?

i apologize in advance but i have to give it a shot..

to the vieira tune:

al-ex-hleeeb
woaahhh
he comes from belarus
he almost never shoots

...anyway just finished watching the match and i have to say i was impressed by walcott in the first half. decision-making was good and he had the right idea most of the time. he lost the ball a few times, but you'd expect him to be outmuscled at his age.

adebayor had an off night in terms of passing and linking up, but his movement was good, as usual. just to chip in on the silly ade v. rvp debate going on, i love rvp as much as the next guy, but all the skill in the world means absolutely nothing if you cant be in the right spot at the right time, or make the run that gets spotted by hleb, fab, titi or tommy. rvp shouldnt be playing at LM, however, that much is clear.

ade got a couple good crosses from hoyte, who looks a competent premiership RB, but i still rank him behind eboue, lauren and gilbert. not so much an indictment of his skills than a measure of my esteem for the other 3.

our favourite czech made some fantastic runs in the 2nd half; almost ljungberg/pires-esque. the finishes werent coming off, but id like to see him keep making those penetrative diagonal runs into the box. great combo with hleb on that shot just tipped round the post.

djourou and toure looked weak at times, tho i'm sure they et their focus slip due to the scoreline. still, i'm glad we have clichy back and gallas there to play CB.