PL: Reading vs Arsenal | 22/10/06

[Big Poppa]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

 

[gunnerturk]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Once again you are spot on. I seriously doubt the sanity of some of the posters here.

 

[Alfonso]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Spot on.

 

[progman07]

His performance is really dependent on where is he playing. Left, he can't shoot, because he is left-legged. If he is on right flank, he can make a trick or two, and SHOOT. We can't expect him to shoot with his right leg as good as with his left. If he is on right side, he has got the place to push the ball closer to the box with his left leg. Some of you can't understand, but there are some tricks which can be done only to one direction, and this is the left direction (with left foot of course). Now then, if he does the trick left side, he would get even more far from the box. Check some of his older goals, he dribbled through 2-3 defenders at the right side before finishing. He can't do it right side.
Arsenal isn't about the good old left foot left flank, right foot right flank, because that was for the old long-ball style. Now, we don't really depend on this style, 'long ball from wide to box player, good header, goal...', we play totally different.

 

[Dennis10]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Just when I wanted to write a post on this subject I find this which really says everything I wanted to say, and probably a bit better than I would have said it.

 

[kel varnsen]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

what are you on about? no one is saying reyes is more skilful, only that his vision and passing skill is superior to rvp. as for your last two paragraphs, so you think van persie has the stronger mentality of the two. so what, i don't see how that is even relevant to this discussion...?

 

[celestis]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Lol , I think you will find that all we were talking about was in the context of decision making and passing skills . Which by the way you agreed with in your post .

By the way if you think Reyes has no bottle , your'e completely wrong . I have seen him score goals where it would have been easier to pull out and I have seen him win 50-50 balls with Roy Keane hardly a ***** .

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Lets not confuse consistency with the potential you see in a player. That applies to both Rvp and Reyes. When a player shows you skills its not luck..it means he has it even if for the next 4 games you don't see that again. So lets assume both of them can be consistent and then compare.

If both of them are to be consistent, I think Reyes would have had a much greater impact then RvP. Lets be frank guys, with the way we play its always been Henry scoring most goals and the rest cheaping in(creating and scoring). Reyes style of football fits with how we play..he is a good drifter and always makes the other players look good. Now that is really where I believe RvP is short. How does he make the rest of the players? Henry is who he is cos not only does he score..but he really makes other players stand out(including RvP). So all in all RvP and Reyes are i guess diff type of players but I strongly believe a consistent Reyes adds much more to Arsenal then a consistent RvP.

 

[RockyRocastle]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Spot on fella.

Van Persie has a little something about him. He is a bit arrogant and can be a sly, nasty ****er. I like that.

Reyes was simply a *****.

 

[celestis]

Tell the truth I am not interested in who is better . To me in the final 3rd RVP is better than Reyes ,even on the left flank , he can beat players and he is a decent cross. He also has a decent right foot - so why dear god does he not use it? He ain't playing well but he is still scoring.

All I am saying is, Jose received a heck of a lot of criticism for not fitting into the team , not picking the right pass and decision making . What I have seen of Robin in that department sinces the start of the season is even worse yet we are still making out that RVP has so much more football smarts . The guy has a long way to go , which funnily enough is good for us as if he can make an impact as raw as he is now , it can only bode well for Arsenal.

 

[hellolo]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

Spot on fella.

Van Persie has a little something about him. He is a bit arrogant and can be a sly, nasty f*r. I like that.

Reyes was simply a *****.

I think that's why Reyes gets a lot of stick, simply because he isn't a bloke's bloke, i feel it's a bit sad really, but i guess people have different perceptions and expectations about footballers...
BTW bip poopa, i think you are absolutely wrong but theres no point going into another Reyes v RVP debate, people are sick to death of it already

 

[Zico]

I thought Reyes' flight would end these Reyes vs van Persie debates. Why are we getting so passionate about a player who doesn't want to come back to the Grove?

On v Persie. The man has otherwordly skill. However, I still think that his speed game needs to be improved. By that I mean run with the counter attack, and if he's on the ball in a counter, release the ball at the right time to players running into space ahead of him.

He has improved his temper and petulance, so is less likely to pick up silly bookings these days.

His crosses from the left will need to improve, whether or not he's played as a winger. Too many of them are low and easily intercepted.

Finally, like Theo, he has an ability to become anonymous for long periods. Those two are the only attacking players I've seen with that weakness, and both will have to work on integrating themselves better into the game.

 

[Big Poppa]

Can't honestly believe some of the things I'm reading on here. Reyes more skilful than van Persie?!? That's joke of the century. Robin's individual skillset extends far beyond anything that Reyes can ever even think of trying to pull off. Once we got past his inability to stay on his feet longer then five seconds, then came his constant laxness in possession.

Capable of a brilliant long pass yes. Capabale of an exquisiste cross-field ball, yes. But everything in between was god awful and horribly inconsistent. The difference between Robin and Jose is simple. Robin can be a mtachwinner on the big stage - Jose can only hope to. They both suffer from similar frustrating traits of having promising attacking moves breaking down with the reach them - and nobody can deny that this is infuriating, but at least with Robin you can see a sense of ruthlessness and fight.

If there's a 50-50 ball against a henched up lower-league centre-back, you think Robin would pull out? You ever seen Robin on the floor looking like he's on the verge of tears after any collision? Honestly Reyes' antics were all the more irritating because they slowed us down and stopped us taking quick free kicks. Robin is mentally stronger, more gifted in terms of raw ability, and better suited to Premiership football. Even with a tendancy to reflect upon previous players in rose tints, this cannot even be questioned.

what are you on about? no one is saying reyes is more skilful, only that his vision and passing skill is superior to rvp. as for your last two paragraphs, so you think van persie has the stronger mentality of the two. so what, i don't see how that is even relevant to this discussion...?

What you're describing here is a comparison between someone who approaches the game more in the 'team' frame of mind (Reyes) and someone who places more emphasis on the role of their individual performance (Robin). Robin is a forward and Reyes is an attack minded midfielder. Their instincts are very different. One thing is very true though, and that's the fact that Robin needs to improve his application of team play. Is it a Dutch thing? No. I think the Dutch are all naturally very self-confident but perhaps its not so bad of Wenger to give him a spell in a wide midfield position where linking play with others in this Arsenal team is more of an necessity than a choice.

You can see with Robin that when he chooses to ping a ball 40 yards across the pitch, it's almost effortless and blindingly accurate. But he only does it as a last resort or when he is under some sort of tactical restraint (i.e. being asked to play deeper and out wide). I feel he should look to improve the frequency and speed of his short passing game. This will take him to the next level. In that sense, he and Reyes share something similar.

Nonetheless I never thought there was anything particularly godly about Reyes' vision. Quite often when he found himself in an unusually large amount of space then he could split a defence with a brilliantly weighted pass - but his 'vision' has never been on the level of a truly creative playmaker who can see things that others don't - at all times. I'm talking disguised passes, awareness of the keeper's positioning on his line, awareness of his supporting full-back's run creating space for him to move inside. He wasn't a player that you could say was constantly looking around whilst running with the ball, yet from a standing position, his passing was often very very good.

I think much of it is down to the fact that he was so pre-occupied about incoming challenges and this undoubtedly affected his game. In his mind he didn't feel protected by the referee as he would be at home. I just think that when the two hit the top of their game, Robin has an awful lot more to his armoury and is much more primed to succeed here because of his determination to win. People often talk about great players and say this; small signs appear at early stages of their career, and one of the biggest is that little something to produce a goal out of nothing despite playing below their usual level and swing a tight contest in their team's favour. Robin has a lot of areas to improve in his game right now, but he is someone who welcomes the responsibility and carries far more self-assurance on the pitch than many others his age, including but not exclusively, Reyes.

Mentality kel, is relevant on a uniform platform so does not really have to be justified there in my final paragraph. When a player like Jose is unable to ride even the most minor of challenges and is effectively 'solar powered', skills like passing and vision become about as useful as an inflatable dartboard in the wider scheme of things. Luckily for us, Robin is actually scoring goals without playing well. Just wait till he hits top form!

 

[Zico]

I think Poppa might've nailed what Wenger's doing by playing van Persie on the wing:

"perhaps its not so bad of Wenger to give him a spell in a wide midfield position where linking play with others in this Arsenal team is more of an necessity than a choice."

If v Persie was played wide on the right, then his natural inclination would be to cut in most times and go for goal. Being on his weak side, shooting-wise, forces him to pass to other players. For shot passes, he'll have to improve his right foot control, and there's definitely still a lot of room for growth in his crossing.

Make no mistake - our players don't pass the ball around in the 6 yard box because they're genetically programmed to: Wenger likes selfless players, and he's trying to turn v Persie into more of a giver.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

You will struggle to have a major impact at Arsenal if you are a selfish player. Its that simple. The system is built with the number one assumption being you will release the ball to the player in the best position to contribute to the scoring of the goal. People Hleb fit in so well..then cos he shoots only when there is no one else to pass to reminds me of me