Player Ratings - CL: Sparta Prague vs Arsenal | 18/10/05

[chandraraj]

i would give 10 for henry. just because he did his job perfectly, scoring goals to ensure our victory.

 

[_scorpion_]

Asa, I agree with most of your ratings, but Pires was a shadow of his former self again.

If I were judging him against the Pires of old (which is how Kel is probably looking at it) I'd give him a 3.

If I was judging him on what he has dished out for us the last 2 seasons, he'd get a 5.5 for that effort (just above average).

It's sad to see a great player in such decline but my point is it is more noticable with Pires because he was so great in the past.

Agree Cesc had a top game, so did Toure but how do you go past Henry as our most important player in the match?

 

[Asterix]

I haven't seen the match yet, so I'm not going to argue about specific performances, and I don't expect to get flamed for not knowing what I'm talking about.

I did however want to back up asa in his arguments about the role of midfield passing. You should all have a read of this
http://soccernet.espn.go.com/columns/st ... pe&cc=3436

which deals with Pablo Garcia's role at Madrid. Simple distribution in midfield is a critical element of successfully building an attack. Passing the ball to a team mate in space and then moving to space yourself is hugely important and yet under rated. It builds momentum for the team and moves defenders out of position. If Pires was in fact helping to do this, while waiting for the right time to make the killer pass, then he's done his job and done it well.

Thanks for the write up Asa - sounds like there were some good performances last night.

 

[Lord Dula]

Well I cant agree with Fabregas being man of the match. For a start I felt Gilberto was more influential in the midfield.

Obviously Toure made more telling contributions to the game.

But I just cant see past Henry for man of the match. Had he not come on it would have been a completely different game. We would have been toothless.

Asa I know sometimes we all fancy ourselves as a bit of a football connoisseur and try to go against the norm and forward attention to the less obvious, but come on??

Are you seriously trying to say that put in the position of taking either Henry or Cesc out the game, you'd take out Henry?

I'm not buying that for a sec.

And if you're serious, I shant be recommending you to sky one to take Graham Taylors position as manager of the celebs.

 

[Allyboy]

Eboue was okay last night, but still looked very rough around the edges.

Against West Brom he was awful, I guess the lesson to be learned is that for now at least he is better off being put upfield, where if he loses the ball it wont be as costly as consistantly giving the ball away on the edge of our area!

Clichy is finding it hard at the moment but when Campbell comes back in that might help him out a bit.

Toure however is playing great, he looks like the 03/04 player he was which is very good for us.

It will all come together, the Premiership is realistically beyond us but I see no reason why we can't finish 2nd, even if we have to be outside the top 5 come christmas.

 

[asajoseph]

Guys,

Please don't think I don't recognise the great performance Henry put on last night - he scored 2 fantastic goals set up Fabregas for what should have been another.

BUT, just to give a little clarity as to why I chose Cesc slightly ahead of him as my MOTM. I don't tend to look at individual moments of brilliance when I assess how a player performs over a 90 minute match. Obviously they're important, but in my oppinion every contribution a player makes, small or large, needs to be taken into account when making these judgements. So yes, Henry had a few moments of pure brilliance. But for much of the game he was also quite quiet, there were periods where he didn't manage to get involved, and sometimes when he did his touch was quite poor. Of course, without those moments of brilliance we might not have won last night, and I don't want to be churlish and criticise him for a record breaking performance.It’s just that I feel that over the course of 90 minutes, Fabregas’ performance, when judged by every single contribution he made was marginally better. No, he didn’t have the flash moments Henry did, but he was very involved in our passing moves, he used skill to beat players, was aggressive in the challenge and moved off the ball very well too. Yes, as usual he missed opportunities where he should have shot, but on the whole, over 90 minutes, I think he was creative, influential, and important to our success last night.

 

[Ratinho]

Ratings out of ten. (1=s**t, 5=average, 10=Henry )

Lehmann - Little to do. One barking moment, but never in danger even then. 5

Lauren - Solid as ever, and did everything right. 7

Cygan - With a speedy Toure next to him, he is always solid in europe with a slower game around him. His 1 or 2 semi-errors were negligable. 7

Toure - Turning into strange sweeper figure, who clears up the loose balls at the back by sprinting back from infront of the defence. Read the game well, powerful, great in the tackle, and is showing that his relative dip in form last season was just that, a dip in form. Most nights, he'd have been MotM. 8

Clichy - Inexperience showed last night. All the ability, pace and technique is there, but he has a lot to learn about positional play and discipline. Poor tbh. 4

Fabregas - Sharp, linked the play brilliantly and did all this out of position. Continues to impress. 8

Gilberto - Did what he does best. Sat in and broke things up, started them going the other way. Still needs a top man next to him, who can power forward after he's broke it up. 6

Flamini - Bit of headless chickeness still there for me, especially in the second half, but he harries and breaks things up. He's one of those who should be competing for a squad place though, not starting. 6

Pires - Average throughout. Didn't help a struggling Clichy at all, but frustrated by showing how good he can still be with a Beckham-esque ball fro Henry's second. 6

Reyes - As ever, sharp and linked up well with Cesc early on. The treatmen he gets from almost every team he plays against shows you how much he scares them. Didn't play long enough to rate though. -

RVP - Just ok. Didn't play badly, but didn't do anything but link the play, and not in an especially positive way. 5

Subs:

Henry - People will say were a one man team. People will say that we rely solely on Henry.

Remove Ronaldinho, remove Rooney, remove Ballack......there are great players around the Henry's and Rooney's of this world, but they make teams tick. They raise the players around them, and they can produce brilliance that even the Reyes/Deco/Giggs cannot.

He wasn't fit last night. He was clearly low on energy, but did that stop him chasing back? No. Did that make his touch or his footballing brain work slower? No. He stepped out, took HIS captain's armband and grabbed the game by the balls within minutes.

If Henry wants us to spend, we should ask how much and on who. He's that important.

And yes, he deserves a small section. 9 - MotM

Eboue -Like Asa, not keen on defending a lead, but Eboue is not the worst man to have if you decide to do this. Strong and energetic, solid way to see out the game. 6

Quincy - No real reason for him to even be in the squad in the end. Wenger was proven right in sticking with experience for this type of game. Could have been butchered if he started. 5

 

[ccc]

Pires - Average throughout. Didn't help a struggling Clichy at all, but frustrated by showing how good he can still be with a Beckham-esque ball fro Henry's second. 6

why pires is blamed for no covering for clichy? it was rvp who played in left winger since TT came on. pires played like a 2nd striker, so it was not his responsibilty to help clearing in front of clichy.

 

[dunhate_d_gunners]

Toure was outstanding and Flamini was very impressive in midfield....Cygan was slow as usual but made some nice defensive moves...Pires was quite solid today.
Clichy tried a bit but he opens up himself too often and is easy dribbled....Lauren was very much o.k...was hardly ever out of position except one time.
Lehmann.???????..what's wrong with his clearance..Can't he just kick a ball straight out ...he's shots always drift out wide to the right.
Cesc..was good..showed some good passing in the early stages of the game.
RVP..wasn't really effective even though he could have been put clean through if not for some delayed passes.
Gilberto was really solid today...got the tackles in and stopped the opposition play.
finall, our KING...our Pride and Joy...King Thierry Henry...simple unstoppable...

 

[Gurgen]

Jens 6 - A bit shaky on the high balls, otherwise solid.
Lauren 8 - Started a bit nervy but was excellent from then on.
Kolo 8 - A rock. Had to clean up for Cygan and Clichy on numerous occasions and did so with aplomb.
Cygan 6 - Nervous as always, good in the air though.
Clichy 5 - Very poor. Bad positioning, bad timing and bad judgement. Needs to work on his awareness.
Cesc 7 - Kept possesion well, should have scored.
Flamini 7 - Very useful. Good tackling and did a good job breaking up counter attacks. Passed adequately as well.
Gilberto 7 - Invisible, and that means he played well.
Pires 6 - Didn't do much apart from the assist, at least didn't give away the ball too much.
Reyes 6 - Generally got fouled a lot.
RvP 6 - Booked for being fouled, then played at LW. First Wenger tells him to keep it simple in midfield because his strengths are in the box then he moves him into that very same midfield. Great thinking Arsène. Well he sure kept it simple.
Henry 9 MOTM - Brilliant. First goal was a peach. Sure he had a poor touch at times, but he was out for six weeks. Still scored two great goals though, and that's the difference between 0-0 and 0-2.
Eboue 6 - Gave the ball away too much I thought, stupid substitution anyway.
Quincy * - Not enough time to rate him, he sure is fast though.

 

[sabret00the]

RvP 6 - Booked for being fouled, then played at LW. First Wenger tells him to keep it simple in midfield because his strengths are in the box then he moves him into that very same midfield. Great thinking Arsène. Well he sure kept it simple.

someone had to say it though

 

[Wenger14]

Guys,

Please don't think I don't recognise the great performance Henry put on last night - he scored 2 fantastic goals set up Fabregas for what should have been another.

BUT, just to give a little clarity as to why I chose Cesc slightly ahead of him as my MOTM. I don't tend to look at individual moments of brilliance when I assess how a player performs over a 90 minute match. Obviously they're important, but in my oppinion every contribution a player makes, small or large, needs to be taken into account when making these judgements. So yes, Henry had a few moments of pure brilliance. But for much of the game he was also quite quiet, there were periods where he didn't manage to get involved, and sometimes when he did his touch was quite poor. Of course, without those moments of brilliance we might not have won last night, and I don't want to be churlish and criticise him for a record breaking performance.It’s just that I feel that over the course of 90 minutes, Fabregas’ performance, when judged by every single contribution he made was marginally better. No, he didn’t have the flash moments Henry did, but he was very involved in our passing moves, he used skill to beat players, was aggressive in the challenge and moved off the ball very well too. Yes, as usual he missed opportunities where he should have shot, but on the whole, over 90 minutes, I think he was creative, influential, and important to our success last night.

Asa,

IMO a MOTM at first option should be handed over to a player who influenced the game the biggest, be it in a moment or for the entire span of the game. It needn't have come to life on the pitch for an entire 90 minutes, but Henrys 1st goal lifted the team and lifted our game, it was that moment where the game turned.

I do not agree that Cesc had a brilliant game, and I certainly don't agree he deserves the MOTM. He may have been more consistent throughout the game, but isn't that something we expect from every player?

 

[asajoseph]

Wenger14,

That's your oppinion, and you're entitled to it. As far as I'm concerned it's an subjective assessment anyway. In my oppinion though the MOTM award should go to the player who played at the consistently highest level over the course of the match. Often, the player who influences the game most and the player who plays at the consistently highest level are the same - but not always. You could argue, by your standards, that Pires 'influenced' the game more than Fabregas, because he was involved in the build-up of one of the goals. But he didn't play nearly as well over 90 minutes. Similarly, a striker might come on for 5 minutes at the end of the game, and score the winning goal in a 1-0 victory - he had a massive influence on the game, but is his overall contribution ever going to be worthy of the MOTM award? Not really, in my oppinion, unless the rest of his team was truly dire.

But how you hand out your MOTM award is really up to you, and if you don't agree with me it doesn't bother me at all. The fact that you don't agree that Fabregas had a brilliant game is a little more alarming (although I wouldn't have said he was brilliant, just very good - but that's a semantic issue anyhow). The ability to recieve the ball in the middle of the park (the most congested area of the field) and ride challenges, beat players and distribute creatively is an difficult and undervalued skill by many on this board, and Fabregas did pretty consistently well in that area last night, for someone only 18 years old. Add to that his running off the ball, which is getting better and better, and you had a very strong performance. Again, he was reluctant to shoot, which is becoming the biggest flaw in his game, but if he can develop this he'll be one heck of a player.

 

[RockyRocastle]

Fabregas MOTM? Are you on glue?!

Kolo was immense, Pascal looked solid and Ralph was his usual self. Clichy was poor again which is rather worrying.

Pires was average, but improved ten fold when he was moved into the middle, Gilberto did his job, Cesc and Flamini were average, so was VP.

And Henry was Henry.

Just showed how much of a one man team we are, that cutting edge and moments of class have been missing since he has been out.

 

[Ziontrain]

You know all those spectacular coverage saves by Toure, actually define the number of times that Cygan was out of his own position and too slow to recover to his place, let alone to cover for the (clearly nervous) Clichy.

So if Toure is an 8 then I don't see how Cygan does any better than a 4. HE was the one who made Toure look good!

 

[kel varnsen]

asa, what kind of weird rating system are you using? assuming it is 1-10, a 7 is pretty darn good rating. no way pires deserves that. i'd say 4,5-5 is more accurate...

 

[kamikaze80]

to me, youre rated on an objective scale and you start the match at 5. you cant be rated based on your own previous performances, otherwise i could play for arsenal and be atrocious but if i tried really hard, id get a 7?

also, to me, a fair but somewhat invisible performance highlighted by a goal or an assist is more valuable than one that is good throughout but has no end product. after all, the name of the game is goals. even though i understand and even agree w/kel regarding pires (can i type re: or is that txt language?), you cant overlook the assist. no one else was able to place a better through ball during the match.

and no way cygan was a 4, he was caught out a few times but he plays knowing what kind of player toure is and makes decisions accordingly. and he was dominant in the air, clearing almost every cross and corner himself with his big bald french noggin.

 

[Tegh]

Let's remember this is Asa's own personal opinion, it's not Gospel.

As you can see from people like Ratinho, Gurgen and Wenger14, you're allowed to give your own ratings.

I agree with most of your ratings Asa, and i'm not putting you down, just using your ratings as a basis.

Pires put in his best performance so far, but still wasn't amazing. I'm not sure wether to give him a 6 or a 7, so for me it's a 6.5.

Van Persie had a quiet game, but that's mainly because we never passed the ball to him. After the goal we no longer looked the dominant team, and chances came few and far between until the second half. So I'd probably give Van Persie a 5, not really by any fault of his own. Strikers rely on supply, and he just didn't get anything all night. 5

Lehmann gets a 6 for me, as he didn't have much to do all night.

Kolo was solid, and made sure he cleaned up any mistakes at the back, a great performance, and one we needed. Clean sheet, stopped Lehmann from having to do much work. Man of the match for me. 8

Cygan made one mistake all game I think, where he gave it away outside the area, but he was strong in the air, and came close scoring with a header up the other end. All in all he played pretty well, and with Toure playing as he was, I expect he was feeling comfortable. 7

Lauren was as usual his steady self, didn't let much get past him, and never really looked troubled. He and Toure have a good relationship between them on the pitch, and that's good to see with stand in defenders lining up. It's no doubt a big confidence boost keeping a clean sheet.

Clichy was quite poor, but that's mainly down to nerves. It was his first Champions League start in the absence of Ashley Cole. He made a fair few mistakes and errors in judgement which could of been punished by a better side. Hopefully he'll take all this into account and put in some of the good performances we've seen from him in previous games. 5

Pires was rated above, but here it is again: 6.5

Fabregas played well, showed good determination in tracking back, and had a great work rate about him. He chased everything down, and didn't give the ball away easily, good job. 7.5

Gilberto looked solid alongside Fabregas, and not much got past him down the centre. 7.5

Flamini did well, he looked physically strong in the middle of the park, and that was a good thing with Sparta Prague pushing us around the pitch. Didn't really make any mistakes, and his passing wasn't bad. In fact, I don't think he fell over once whilst making a pass, good boy! 7

Henry scored a great goal, outstanding even. His return will prove to be a huge boost for us as long as he can stay fit. We have lacked his clinical finishing, and team morale should now have lifted upon his return. Was quiet after his first goal for the remainder of the first half, but he wasn't at full fitness so I wasn't even expecting one goal, let alone two. 8

Eboue looked strong, and quick, but he gave the ball away a couple of times and didn't really look strong attacking. I thought he was a defender, meh, whatever. Anyway, he's young, and has lots of time to gain experience. He looks promising, and from what I've heard, sounds promising, so I look forward to seeing more of him in action. 6

 

[Wenger14]

Asa,

Selecting a MOTM is really down to one's opinion, and how he/she saw the game through their eyes. Someone can come on here and argue that Toure's influence was a greater asset than Henry's or as you did with Fabregas.

Although, comparing the perfomances of Henry and Fabregas, who really made more of an impact on the game? IMO it was Henry without a doubt. He instilled a renewed confidence in the team with a moment of pure brilliance, that IMO changed the course of the game, and gave us that extra self belief.

As you said, you are enititled to your opinion and if you saw Fabregas as your choice of the MOTM, there is nothing wrong with it at all. But I can't really see beyond Henry as the MOTM. As a commentator on ITV2 said, he came on from the bench, took the armband from Gilberto, scored an amazing goal, and lifted the team.

Let me calrify a point I made on selecting a MOTM on a moment of pure brilliance. It boils down to common sense in the end when selecting the MOTM. Obviously a person who comes on in the last 5 minutes of a game, hardly had time to justify being the best player on the pitch, even if he scores an exceptional goal, winning the match in the process. What I tried to get through was that, (I'm using Henry and Ces as examples) Fabregas' perfomance although being solid, didn't have a greater impact on the game than Henry's and in selecting the MOTM, a solid perfomance like Fabregas' would be outdone by a solid overall game + a moment of absolute brilliance + the impact made on the game by Henry. If you do the Math, Henry would be the rightful winner.

Many on here, including me, would have Toure ahead of Cesc as well, but again, it's down to one's opinion, and every one person is entitled to their own. Freedom of speech isn't it :wink:

 

[Wenger14]

Let's remember this is Asa's own personal opinion, it's not Gospel.

Well it may not be gospel, but it's pretty good :wink: