Premier League | Stoke City vs Arsenal | 19/08/2017 | 17:30 BST (16:30 UTC) | BT Sport

[CaseUteinberger]

This is going to be a toxic season. Any loss and the hate for Wenger will pour out like puss from a boil. Not sure I can stand to see it it. Like one of Stan's bloodsport movies unfolding every week.

Unfortunately this is what Wenger signed up for when he renewed his contract. For all the good he has done there is a lot of baggage and history with the club and fans he carries around with him. All the anger and frustration hasn't disappeared just because he signed of for another 2 years. On the contrary, it will continue to fester. We better win a lot of games this year otherwise it will turn ugly again.

 

[Makingtrax]

Unfortunately this is what Wenger signed up for when he renewed his contract. For all the good he has done there is a lot of baggage and history with the club and fans he carries around with him. All the anger and frustration hasn't disappeared just because he signed of for another 2 years. On the contrary, it will continue to fester. We better win a lot of games this year otherwise it will turn ugly again.

We're not going to win much more mate.

Wenger should have left on a high. But he wants to win the league so badly. Fool really, he has no chance against Mourinho and Pep's squads.

And he hasn't sorted out a couple of key positions, meanwhile Sanchez and Özil hang over him like the sword of damacles.

 

[Jonathan Mccombie]

will be a long difficult season, might have to rely upon the europa league being our escapism like man utd did last year

 

[skip spence]

Just watched the highlights. Had a big party yesterday and missed the game, luckily it seems. Seemed like a frustrating match, once again. Same old story really. The pundit can keep on regurgitating the same old cliches about Arsenal being a bit soft and lacking the cutting edge and they are not proven wrong.

Reckon Giroud should've started this game. His lay-offs, aerial strength and, not least, ability to put the ball in the back of the net - Özil and Welbeck, I'm looking accusingly at you - would've been useful from the start.

Now we have to go to Anfield and get a result. A win would bring back some optimism.

I'm not optimistic.

 

[skip spence]

will be a long difficult season, might have to rely upon the europa league being our escapism like man utd did last year

See I just can't do that. A third rate **** cup tbqh. The losers' cup. I rate the FA-cup higher.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

See I just can't do that. A third rate **** cup tbqh. The losers' cup. I rate the FA-cup higher.

It's looking more and more like our best path back into the CL, to be frank.

 

[OnlyOne]

Just watched the highlights. Had a big party yesterday and missed the game, luckily it seems. Seemed like a frustrating match, once again. Same old story really. The pundit can keep on regurgitating the same old cliches about Arsenal being a bit soft and lacking the cutting edge and they are not proven wrong.

Reckon Giroud should've started this game. His lay-offs, aerial strength and, not least, ability to put the ball in the back of the net - Özil and Welbeck, I'm looking accusingly at you - would've been useful from the start.

Now we have to go to Anfield and get a result. A win would bring back some optimism.

I'm not optimistic.

Cheers for the invite :/

 

[bingobob]

Can't be serious. Used to rate you as a poster

Sorry to go down in your estimations

But I am deadly serious. You only need to look at our FA cup win and community shield win to see the role our superior squad depth and strength played. It's not a stretch to think we've the best overall squad in the league and one of the best in Europe. We haven't looked significantly worse or better without Alexis but taking Neymar out of Barcelona and Pique is saying it's the first time he has felt inferior to Madrid.

We can still and should cut down our squad significantly and improve the squad. There is a lot of deadwood but they are still good players.

 

[tcahill]

This game wasn't the disaster some people are making it out to be, although I can obviously see how people are frustrated, as am I.

We created easily enough chances to win the game, Welbeck alone should've had 2-3 goals if he could bloody well do his job. Ramsey might be undisciplined and a little too free in his role, but you have to admit he is a threat in the box. Xhaka had a bad game, but I still saw some quality passes from him, if this is a 'bad game' for him i'm not too worried. Lacazette didn't get the service he needed (I thought Welbeck was at fault), and absolutely belted one of the two chances he got.

The problems I saw were so easily solvable. Monreal is not a CB. He might thrive in the LCB role, but he shouldn't be anywhere near CCB. Bellerin on the left looked decent, but we had the Bundesliga LB of the season playing right behind to him in the wrong role, a player who also happens to specialise in LWB. Where was Chambers today? Where was Per? If only one of these blokes played, we could have had a decent back 3 while also allowing Seo to play his best position. This isn't even taking into account the solution of just buying a new damn CB, which would solve so many problems.

I'd almost be happier if Stoke completely walloped us with our best starting XI. Its so frustrating knowing that we easily could have won this, but just because of Wenger's absurd starting lineup, leading to us conceding one counter and lost the 3 points. I genuinely believe we can be title contenders with our current squad, and title winners with another CM and CB.

 

[Makingtrax]

Sorry to go down in your estimations

But I am deadly serious. You only need to look at our FA cup win and community shield win to see the role our superior squad depth and strength played. It's not a stretch to think we've the best overall squad in the league and one of the best in Europe. We haven't looked significantly worse or better without Alexis but taking Neymar out of Barcelona and Pique is saying it's the first time he has felt inferior to Madrid.

We can still and should cut down our squad significantly and improve the squad. There is a lot of deadwood but they are still good players.

OK if you can hold up that FACup card for the squad, what about Wenger? If his tactics are good enough to easily outplay Chelsea twice, how can they suddenly be rubbish for Stoke.

Can't have it both ways.

 

[skip spence]

Cheers for the invite :/

Errr... really wanted to have you over but... you know...

 

[Mrs Bergkamp]

You don't have to agree. But simply the vast majority of our players would be starting for other teams. We've the first choice RB from the French national team for the 2014 world cup sitting picking dingle berries from his butt hole when he'd be starting for 50% of the teams in the league.

When our first choice striker goes down we can call upon a French international and two English internationals or Lukas Perez. Again what other team in the league has that depth?

So I don't think that it's even a stretch to say a team that has a German world cup winning defender sitting on the bench has the best squad in the league. Starting Xi that's a different question and answer all together.

I've always thought of depth as being not just numbers but quality. Many of our back up players are quite poor evidenced by the fact that Ox aside, we'll be lucky to get up to £15m for any player we decide to sell. You mention backup to our first choice striker- Giroud is good but the two England internationals (Welbeck and Walcott) are poor and Walcott lost his place to a 33 year old Defoe lol. I agree on Debuchy but he must have a real attitude problem to refuse to fight for his place. He's also sadly an injury liability now and 2014 is a distant memory.
We sold Woj and Gabriel. I'm not sure we can rely on Per, Santi or Wilshere for fitness. Ramsey,Ox and Walcott are also injury concerns and inconsistent. Debuchy, Jenks,Gibbs and Chambers seem surplus to requirements. That's 10 players with question marks and only 3 at most make the squad if everyone is fit and performing. 33 players and less than 20 are experienced,physically durable and consistent. That's not depth imo.

 

[Gooner n Proud]

Its frustrating for us all of course that we lost but I think its important to put things in perspective; Arsenal had around 80% of the ball possession, created more chances then any other PL team this weekend and were immensely unlucky to not get any of the referees decisions go our way, if that match was played again 10 times over we'd win.

We do need to work on aspects of our game particular transitionally from Attack to defence as there just doesn't seem to be any defensive organisation off the ball at times and we get punished for it constantly. I really dont like Current Ramsey alongside Xhaka in a two man midfield as the former doesn't track back enough leaving massive gaps for opposition midfielders to exploit. Aarons a hardworking player with a great engine and defensive skills but his instinct is to attack whilst he lacks awareness and positioning in the defensive phase hence its overrall obsolete to have him in a midfield two, Elneny would provide the better balance next to Xhaka out of all our current fit midfielders.

 

[GeorgiaGunner]

Sorry to go down in your estimations

But I am deadly serious. You only need to look at our FA cup win and community shield win to see the role our superior squad depth and strength played. It's not a stretch to think we've the best overall squad in the league and one of the best in Europe. We haven't looked significantly worse or better without Alexis but taking Neymar out of Barcelona and Pique is saying it's the first time he has felt inferior to Madrid.

We can still and should cut down our squad significantly and improve the squad. There is a lot of deadwood but they are still good players.

It's a massive 'stretch' -- we finished 5th last year (and the 6th place team was otherwise occupied and won 2 real trophies & however you want to classify the CS). Beating Chelsea, especially given that they couldn't be bothered (Courtois PK?) the second time around, does not make up for that.

 

[Stumped]

I thought we played very well in the first half. Butland played a great match. It's difficult to assess because people say 'same old ****' but early season form can be turned around. Lets move on...

 

[carlito'sway]

This game wasn't the disaster some people are making it out to be, although I can obviously see how people are frustrated, as am I.

We created easily enough chances to win the game, Welbeck alone should've had 2-3 goals if he could bloody well do his job. Ramsey might be undisciplined and a little too free in his role, but you have to admit he is a threat in the box. Xhaka had a bad game, but I still saw some quality passes from him, if this is a 'bad game' for him i'm not too worried. Lacazette didn't get the service he needed (I thought Welbeck was at fault), and absolutely belted one of the two chances he got.


I genuinely believe we can be title contenders with our current squad, and title winners with another CM and CB.

Totally agree that we need an other CM.

About Ramsey, yes he is a threat in the box but that is not his main role on the pitch is, or at least should be. He is a CM in 2 midfields setting at Arsenal and we can afford to have the team constantly out of shape because he is galloping forward all the time. That is just not working.

 

[Gooner Zig]

This is not a good result and after last weeks game pretty much confirms that this team has


I agree with this. People need to understand that Arsenal's main goal is not to win the Premier League, but to be "competitive". Finishing in the top four and winning a domestic trophy is a fantastic season in the clubs eyes.

Fans getting upset have high expectations from the club for some reasons, when the club has blatantly showed everybody for years that they aren't prepared to spend money with the likes of City, United and to an extent Chelsea.

Uhhhh did you not listen to what Kroenke himself said about what the club's expectations are when Arsène re-signed?

“Our ambition is to win the Premier League and other major trophies in Europe,” he said.

“It’s what the fans, players, staff, manager and board expect and we won’t rest until that is achieved.

“Arsène is the best person to help us make that happen. He has a fantastic track record and has our full backing.”

I don't know how much more candid you can get than that.

 

[Mo Britain]

This game wasn't the disaster some people are making it out to be, although I can obviously see how people are frustrated, as am I.

We created easily enough chances to win the game, Welbeck alone should've had 2-3 goals if he could bloody well do his job. Ramsey might be undisciplined and a little too free in his role, but you have to admit he is a threat in the box. Xhaka had a bad game, but I still saw some quality passes from him, if this is a 'bad game' for him i'm not too worried. Lacazette didn't get the service he needed (I thought Welbeck was at fault), and absolutely belted one of the two chances he got.

The problems I saw were so easily solvable. Monreal is not a CB. He might thrive in the LCB role, but he shouldn't be anywhere near CCB. Bellerin on the left looked decent, but we had the Bundesliga LB of the season playing right behind to him in the wrong role, a player who also happens to specialise in LWB. Where was Chambers today? Where was Per? If only one of these blokes played, we could have had a decent back 3 while also allowing Seo to play his best position. This isn't even taking into account the solution of just buying a new damn CB, which would solve so many problems.

I'd almost be happier if Stoke completely walloped us with our best starting XI. Its so frustrating knowing that we easily could have won this, but just because of Wenger's absurd starting lineup, leading to us conceding one counter and lost the 3 points. I genuinely believe we can be title contenders with our current squad, and title winners with another CM and CB.

I agree with your final paragraph because ultimately the point is that we could and should have won this game but ended up beating ourselves by not choosing the right players or the right players for the right positions. I am not a Wenger-hater, quite the contrary, but if our conclusions are that without these mistakes we would have won, the worrying thing is that I don't know how/why he is going to stop making them.

 

[argon__]

 

[tcahill]

Totally agree that we need an other CM.

About Ramsey, yes he is a threat in the box but that is not his main role on the pitch is, or at least should be. He is a CM in 2 midfields setting at Arsenal and we can afford to have the team constantly out of shape because he is galloping forward all the time. That is just not working.

Ideally we'd be able to easily balance out his runs with the behaviour of the wingbacks. If Ox/Seo sees Ramsey making a run one or both could drop back to cover, and vice versa. It'd be a very dynamic system and hard to defend against. Of course this is pure speculation, in reality we have Bellerin off in winger-land, Ox doesn't seem to really have the tactical awareness, and Ramsey does what
he well likes.

On paper we should have easily enough defensive cover, with three CBs, Xhaka sitting, and the WBs also contributing defensively. Again, this is pure speculation, Bellerin doesn't seem to have the stamina to both attack and defend all game, while Ox isn't a full back by trade and sometimes struggles defensively.

I agree with your final paragraph because ultimately the point is that we could and should have won this game but ended up beating ourselves by not choosing the right players or the right players for the right positions. I am not a Wenger-hater, quite the contrary, but if our conclusions are that without these mistakes we would have won, the worrying thing is that I don't know how/why he is going to stop making them.

I have no idea either, pretty sure Chambers, Holding and Per were all fit today, no idea why they didn't play. I genuinely can't understand some of Arsène's decisions today. Sometimes with his mistakes you can picture what he was thinking, and understand that his gamble simply didn't pay off. Not this time.