Squad Analysis 2012/2013

[Anzac]

@ Therapy


Are you advocating a change of formation to an inverted midfield in a 451 type set up? as that's NOT how we line up OR how we execute in open play.

To reflect our current set up push Cazorla between Walcott & Podolski and Rambo into the space vacated by Cazorla = 4231.
In open play then push Wilshere forward next to Cazorla & Walcott forward level with Giroud = we are virtually a 4141 / 4132 except the 1 is a CM instead of a DM, and the 4/3 are across the AM line instead of the CM line.

My next question is how do you propose that we 'win' possession from the opposition = we don't press and we don't have a ball winner?

 

[Anzac]

I'd prefer Wilshere withdrawn in that formation alongside Ramsey. Wilshere's engine is pretty spectacular in it's own right and I don't think Cazorla has the same ability to run and run as the other two.

Neither Arteta nor Rambo/Wilshere etc plays as deep as indicated from the DM line in the hole in front of the CBs.
Arteta currently plays from the centre circle.
His average positioning prior to the Spuds game was from the opposition half of the centre circle,
and afterwards it was from our half of the centre circle.
Rambo's average positioning during a match is perched on the shoulder of the AMC as in a quasi 4141 but with a CM 1 and an AM 4 behind the CF.

 

[infineon]

We could do with an experienced squad midfielder. Someone who can give us another tactical option. Going away to Stamford Bridge this season is unlikely to result in another goal fest that we have seen in recent years with Mourinho back. It will never happen with Arsène though, he will keep attacking like crazy. At least this time Mourinho won't have Drogba to pick us off one-nil!

 

[boyinneedofhumor]

We could do with an experienced squad midfielder. Someone who can give us another tactical option. Going away to Stamford Bridge this season is unlikely to result in another goal fest that we have seen in recent years with Mourinho back. It will never happen with Arsène though, he will keep attacking like crazy. At least this time Mourinho won't have Drogba to pick us off one-nil!

Agreed. But going by the recent events on their preseason tour now, the priority may have to change (altho the sequence of which signings are finalised depend on the commercial side of it)

1. A central defender.
If there wasnt news of Vermaelen and Koscielny being injured, we might have considered a KIV approach (until Jan to determine if this position requires reinforcement, with Miguel as the 4th choice - used in the domestic cups and midtable teams in the league).

But not now. Injury (a) has already robbed us before the league has even started. What about suspension (b), loss of form (c) and fatigue (d)?

2. A holding midfielder.
Referring to your above comment, I would probably add on by saying that the addition should be a holding midfielder, not an attacking one. To be honest, I do not have full confidence playing the top teams (i.e. the Manchesters, Barca, Madrid and Munich) with Arteta being the ONLY option, despite the fact that I rate him in that role.
We WILL need more than one defensive midfielder when the occasion calls for it.

3. A striker
With Sanogo signing, we now have more "bodies" in there. Podolski's and Walcott's "backup" may be substituting Chamberlain or Rosicky or Aneke in there in an odd match or so.
The signing, if we are getting one in, is someone who can replace Giroud in the role effectively when needed, and complement him playing in Podolski/Walcott role when both are fit. It is likely Podolski whose position is at risk.

 

[Pires7_Legend]

25 Man Squad:

GK: Szczęsny, Fabianski, Martinez
GK: Sagna, Jenkinson
CB: Mertesacker, Miquel
CB: Koscielny, Vermaelen
LB: Gibbs, Monreal
CM: Arteta, Ramsey
CM: Wilshere, New Player, Diaby
AM: Cazorla, Rosicky
RW: Walcott, Oxlade
LW: Podolski, New Player
ST: New Player, Giroud, Sanogo


1) I can not see us signing new goalkeeper, unless we gonna let Fabianski go.

2) With Vermaelen and Koscielny injured we badly need new CB, not sure if he will tho! Knowing Wenger he will probably use Sagna or Miquel.

3) New quality CM is badly needed to add steel and physciality to our midfield. Diaby is finished. Luis Gustavo would be perfect for us.

4) I think we will sign Bernard and will sell Gervinho to sort out LW.

5) Quality striker is needed badly who can fill in Van Persie shoes,
either Higuain or Suarez. Girouad is very good option to have for a back up striker.

 

[beck]

Simply put this squad can NOT effectively play to top4 standard in either shape with our current roles and players, and requires far too many compromises in either guise so as to 'cover' those inherent player weaknesses (usually to do with providing numbers to smother the midfield).

This seems ultra harsh for a defense that let up the 2nd least goals this year - only 3 more than the top defense, Manchester City.

I think our defense is actually pretty loaded. Koschielny is probably the most physically gifted CB in the league in terms of strength, speed, and tackling. Mertesacker is ultra solid. We have Vermaelen as a backup. We have Monreal and Jenkinson as fullback backups.

I think we need someone to replace Djourou as that deep cover. I'd prefer an emerging young talent like Zouma or promote Miquel finally.

Another case where the numbers are misleading.
As I said in another thread the defensive achievement came at the price of our attack as we needed to change to a 451 for the run home.
Further to this IMO our CBs are not suited to our ultra high line, and BFG's lack of pace is only the more obvious issue.

we scored 33 goals in our last 19 games and conceded 16
that conceded 16 in 19 is on a par with george grahams overal defensive record during his managerial career which is considered the high watermark
we scored 27 goals in our last 19 league games in 70/71 and did a double
we scored 31 goals and conceded 16 in our last 19 league games in 88/89 and won the league.
win every game 1-0 and you win the lot
i have never worried about our goalscoring but for the last 5 years have had deep concerns about our defence
the 2nd half of last season aside from that horror show at white hart lane is the best we have defended in 5 years

 

[Anzac]

Post the Spuds game (which is generally when it is considered AW made his changes)

in the EPL
P10 W8 D2 L0 GF19 GA5

in half the games we failed to score more than 1 goal
whilst keeping 5 clean sheets,
and we scored 11 of those goals in 3 games.

 

[infineon]

Too many draws to be competitive.

 

[Therapy Inc]

Is it not reasonable to think a signing like Suarez will allow us to play defensively and still get goals? IIRC we still created chances, it's just a matter of converting those chances created. I think having a better striker who fits the team better as a whole will give us more confidence in attacking and therefore we can play the game AW wants.

I noticed more committed defending from the team as a whole. You seem to be inferring a little that we parked the bus and I don't think that's accurate.

________Szszesny________
_Sagna_Mert__Kos__Gibbs_

____Arteta____Ramsey____
________Wilshere________

_Walcott________Cazorla_
_________Suarez_________

This is a pretty balanced team IMO. We don't need to flood Ramsey and Arteta into the offensive third to create chances which means that can continue to hold and press as towards the end of last year. I would like to see some better pressing in general. It seems that once we get set with numbers behind the ball that we sit and contain and I'd love to introduce a Barcelona-esque unified pressing scheme to proactively get possession back. There's a minor argument as to whether Arteta is quick enough to press but I think that Arteta's job would be to intercept after the pressing instead of actually pressing.

 

[MrBump]

I like that team, Although I think the real weak point is Ramsey. I just don't think he is good enough for 1st choice. I think that's where Wilshere should be.
I don't think Suarez will be coming.

----------szez---------
sag----per--kos---gib
--------art----wil-------
-----------caz----------
theo-----giro-----pod

That leaves us very thin with no real signs of anyone coming in.
Problem areas are obvious to everyone but those at Arsenal.
CF, CM, CB, GK, even a wide forward.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

I'd prefer Wilshere withdrawn in that formation alongside Ramsey. Wilshere's engine is pretty spectacular in it's own right and I don't think Cazorla has the same ability to run and run as the other two.

Neither Arteta nor Rambo/Wilshere etc plays as deep as indicated from the DM line in the hole in front of the CBs.
Arteta currently plays from the centre circle.
His average positioning prior to the Spuds game was from the opposition half of the centre circle,
and afterwards it was from our half of the centre circle.
Rambo's average positioning during a match is perched on the shoulder of the AMC as in a quasi 4141 but with a CM 1 and an AM 4 behind the CF.

I know! that's kinda my point. We don't need a dedicated DM if we have two hard working CMs behind the AM to share the defensive duty. Also think this makes transitioning a counter attack more effective.

This last sentence I can't figure out. Are you saying there are 4 AMs on the pitch at once?

 

[Anzac]

Neither Arteta nor Rambo/Wilshere etc plays as deep as indicated from the DM line in the hole in front of the CBs.
Arteta currently plays from the centre circle.
His average positioning prior to the Spuds game was from the opposition half of the centre circle,
and afterwards it was from our half of the centre circle.
Rambo's average positioning during a match is perched on the shoulder of the AMC as in a quasi 4141 but with a CM 1 and an AM 4 behind the CF.

I know! that's kinda my point. We don't need a dedicated DM if we have two hard working CMs behind the AM to share the defensive duty. Also think this makes transitioning a counter attack more effective.

This last sentence I can't figure out. Are you saying there are 4 AMs on the pitch at once?

All good mate,

1. I wasn't sure if you meant one to go back or the other to come forward = Arteta plays from the CM line NOT the DM line. I can deal with a 2 CM combo of Wilshere & Rambo IF they played together as a unit with both sitting in from behind, and then acting as double pivot to allow one to go in support akin to Gundogan's role - IMO we'd be far too exposed if we persisted with this false B2B role;

2. Yup you got it in one. I posted the links to the heat maps previously in another thread.
In games prior to Spuds Arteta's average position was in the opposition half of the centre circle, and after Spuds it was in our half of the centre circle. The AMC & LWF were both on the AM line whilst the B2B CM was overlapping the AMC on their right shoulder - they were virtually 1 step behind and 1 step to the right. Walcott as RWF was level with the CF but to the right so it was virtually an off set 4132.
After Spuds the shape was still the same but 1/2 a line deeper - the AMs were around that hybrid position Fabregas used in the hybrid 4213 between the CM & AM line, and Cazorla as LWF was more narrow inside the edge of the area as such.

 

[Rain Dance]

2. Yup you got it in one. I posted the links to the heat maps previously in another thread.
In games prior to Spuds Arteta's average position was in the opposition half of the centre circle, and after Spuds it was in our half of the centre circle. The AMC & LWF were both on the AM line whilst the B2B CM was overlapping the AMC on their right shoulder - they were virtually 1 step behind and 1 step to the right. Walcott as RWF was level with the CF but to the right so it was virtually an off set 4132.
After Spuds the shape was still the same but 1/2 a line deeper - the AMs were around that hybrid position Fabregas used in the hybrid 4213 between the CM & AM line, and Cazorla as LWF was more narrow inside the edge of the area as such.

Just call it 4-2-2-2 mate, hurts my head imagining how many steps this guy and that guy made.

Or make it a line up diagram so its easy to understand

It's line up like this right?

-------------Giroud (ST)------------------
----------------------------------Theo(RWF)

--Santi(AML)<-------->Rozza(AMC)----------

-----------Ramsey(CMF/B2B)-----------------
---------------Arteta (CMF/DMF)------------

It's still a bit different with the old 4-2-2-2 during Cesc era Anzac

 

[Vela]

------------------------Szczesny/Fabianski
Jenkinson/Sagna----Mertesacker/New CB----Kos/Verm-------Gibbs/Monreal
---------------Arteta/New CM---------Ramsey/Wilshere
Walcott/Chamberlain-------Santi/Rosicky---------------Podolski/New CAM/LW
---------------------------Giroud/New Striker

 

[MrBump]

Yep that's how I see it.
I'd be happy to keep both goalkeepers if we were to fill the other positions.
Striker / Midfielder / Centreback / Winger is how I'd prioritize it.

 

[Anzac]

2. Yup you got it in one. I posted the links to the heat maps previously in another thread.
In games prior to Spuds Arteta's average position was in the opposition half of the centre circle, and after Spuds it was in our half of the centre circle. The AMC & LWF were both on the AM line whilst the B2B CM was overlapping the AMC on their right shoulder - they were virtually 1 step behind and 1 step to the right. Walcott as RWF was level with the CF but to the right so it was virtually an off set 4132.
After Spuds the shape was still the same but 1/2 a line deeper - the AMs were around that hybrid position Fabregas used in the hybrid 4213 between the CM & AM line, and Cazorla as LWF was more narrow inside the edge of the area as such.

Just call it 4-2-2-2 mate, hurts my head imagining how many steps this guy and that guy made.

Or make it a line up diagram so its easy to understand

It's line up like this right?

-------------Giroud (ST)------------------
----------------------------------Theo(RWF)

--Santi(AML)<-------->Rozza(AMC)----------

-----------Ramsey(CMF/B2B)-----------------
---------------Arteta (CMF/DMF)------------

It's still a bit different with the old 4-2-2-2 during Cesc era Anzac

IMO it wasn't a 4222 - perhaps it was meant to be an asymmetric 4231?

4231
.........CF..........

...LWF...AMC...RWF...

......CM.....CM......


FB....CB.....CB....FB

Us - 4141 / 4132
.........CF....RWF...Walcott was level with the CF Giroud/Podolski

...LWF...AMC.........Podolski-Cazorla / Cazorla-Rosicky - AM line
............B2B......Rambo was just off the AMC

.......CM............Arteta worked from the centre circle.

We can 'get away' with this imbalance with the ultra high line, but this is what I loathe about the B2B role using a player who's natural game is to go forward & why we are exposed in a deeper line without a genuine defensive minded player/role.
In the heat maps I saw last season (not a lot but some were aggregates & not just single matches IIRC), Arteta was on his own as the DLP and the B2B was always closer to the AMC than even the AMC to the CF,
and Walcott was always level with the CF.

 

[Rain Dance]

IMO it wasn't a 4222 - perhaps it was meant to be an asymmetric 4231?

I doubt it, unless Theo just say "**** you Wenger I am a striker and play as one" and went roaming on his own
It's more likely a variant of 4-2-2-2 from 2008 but lacking dedicated DMC/B2B hardman.

Us - 4141 / 4132
.........CF....RWF...Walcott was level with the CF Giroud/Podolski

...LWF...AMC.........Podolski-Cazorla / Cazorla-Rosicky - AM line
............B2B......Rambo was just off the AMC

LB.....CM............Arteta worked from the centre circle.

Accompanied with one of our full back, there is always someone from our full back overlapping mate, the LB has more tendency than RB (unless Jenko is playing)

We can 'get away' with this imbalance with the ultra high line, but this is what I loathe about the B2B role using a player who's natural game is to go forward & why we are exposed in a deeper line without a genuine defensive minded player/role.
In the heat maps I saw last season (not a lot but some were aggregates & not just single matches IIRC), Arteta was on his own as the DLP and the B2B was always closer to the AMC than even the AMC to the CF,
and Walcott was always level with the CF.

Ultra high line makes us "get away" offensively, but defensively very fragile. Just bait one of our CB to move forward

BAM wide open door, even with Kos speed is too easy to unlock.

 

[Anzac]

@ Rain Dance

I'm peeved because the diagram doesn't reflect how it looked when I drew it up.

..................CF.....RWF....

....LWF....AMC............
....................B2B.........

............DLP............

Hopefully this keeps it shape better.
To try to get it to look 'right' it's waaaay off set.

The CF & AMC are in line in the middle of the pitch,
the WFs are in line with the edge of the penalty area,
and the DLP-AMC-B2B would be positioned as if in a flat midfield 3 but as if they were linking arms,
and the DLP is in the opposition half of the centre circle.

Agreed re the FBs, but in overlapping the LB is ahead of the DLP and more in line with the B2B, whilst the RB is level with the DLP.
and even our CBs are both split and staggered with Kos around the outer edge of the centre circle & BFG around the DM line.

Also I VERY much agree with your comments re the ultra high line,
and hence my earlier comments that our CBs are not well suited to play it.
IMO the 'ideal' scenario would have a BIG stopper to directly challenge the ball / ball carrier and stop the opposition attack from progressing (partly due as a result of NOT having a genuine ball winner in midfield), and to have a smaller more nimble CB covering.
Kos is NOT a ball winner / stopper = he is a man marker who looks to shut down the player not to win the ball, whilst BFG is not nimble to play as a covering role in a high line, and as a consequence we fail to exploit his height other than at set piece scenarios.

 

[Sydney Gooner]

..................CF(Giroud).....RWF(Walcott)....

....LWF(Podolski)....AMC(Rosicky)............
....................B2B(Ramsey).........

............DLP(Arteta)............

I think the front six will line up something like this for our opening game against Villa. Justifiably so as well as they have looked the goods this pre season. Cazorla, Chamberlain (even though he has impressed) and Wilshere should be on the bench on opening day.

 

[truth_hurts]

Stylistically I'd be happy with a Wilshere and Ramsey pairing at central midfield both have great engines, ability on the ball and aren't afraid to put a foot in what both lack however is experience and also leadership - although this seems harsh talking about a Welsh captain (pst) and a lionheart in Wilshere.

Arteta is nowhere near as dynamic as either Ramsey or Wilshere but does offer discipline and leader ship qualities. I agree that we do not need a defensive shield like Gilberto used to be and would benefit more from a player with energy who can put a foot in. Examples a more mature and technical Frimpong, The good Flaimini who had the 5 month purple patch this is the type of midfielder who would balance us. If we can't get balance then we should just get quality for example Cesc, Fellaini or Alonso do not fit our current midfield but would improve it simply because of their attributes.