The Great Squad Cost Thread

[Maybe]

Would really like some details on why Wenger was only allowed to buy Cech in 2015/16 season. And why Kroenke insisting on keeping money in the bank when Wenger was never allowed to get near the squad spending of City, United, Chelsea, Liverpool from 2013 onwards after the purse strings were finally relaxed a little.

Wasn't that the reason why we've had some money in the bank, because he didn't overspend like others every summer? It's was a sensible thing to do if you ask me

 

[Makingtrax]

Wasn't that the reason why we've had some money in the bank, because he didn't overspend like others every summer? It's was a sensible thing to do if you ask me

It makes good business sense, but ultimately the fans are going to slate you for it, and they did.

Ferguson kept up with Chelsea by borrowing hard and spending big. He outspent Wenger by 11 times over their rivalry period according to Transfermarkt figures. Yet fans still thought Wenger was poor because he ultimately couldn't get the same trophy haul.

 

[Maybe]

It makes good business sense, but ultimately the fans are going to slate you for it, and they did.

Ferguson kept up with Chelsea by borrowing hard and spending big. He outspent Wenger by 11 times over their rivalry period according to Transfermarkt figures. Yet fans still thought Wenger was poor because he ultimately couldn't get the same trophy haul.

The only mistake I remember from him and the board was that they've overestimated the importance of match day income and underestimated the importance of marketing and our global commercial deals.
United was already well positioned there and they were always able to cover for that spending.
We've had a good team anyway and we were only unlucky with injury problems (RvP, Diaby, Eduardo, Rosicky), think that was the main difference on the pitch

 

[Makingtrax]

The only mistake I remember from him and the board was that they've overestimated the importance of match day income and underestimated the importance of marketing and our global commercial deals.
United was already well positioned there and they were always able to cover for that spending.
We've had a good team anyway and we were only unlucky with injury problems (RvP, Diaby, Eduardo, Rosicky), think that was the main difference on the pitch

Wenger was incredibly unlucky with injuries. 2015/16 season injury list is staggering. We had £15m in wasted wages.

Imagine starting a campaign with this list of midfielders: Wilshere, Arteta, Cazorla, Ramsey, Coq, Rosicky, Flamini, Ox, Özil.

Wilshere and Rosicky had setbacks and never even got back in the team. Arteta and Cazorla received career ending injuries. Ramsey out 8 weeks and Chamberlain 21 weeks, Özil 3 weeks, Coquelin 9 weeks.

Even up front Welbeck 56 weeks, Sanchez 11 weeks, Walcott 5 weeks.

And fans were frothing at the mouth that Wenger only came 2nd We had 7 times the number of injury weeks as Sp**s and still beat them.

 

[SingmeasongSong]

Wenger was incredibly unlucky with injuries. 2015/16 season injury list is staggering. We had £15m in wasted wages.

Imagine starting a campaign with this list of midfielders: Wilshere, Arteta, Cazorla, Ramsey, Coq, Rosicky, Flamini, Ox, Özil.

Wilshere and Rosicky had setbacks and never even got back in the team. Arteta and Cazorla received career ending injuries. Ramsey out 8 weeks and Chamberlain 21 weeks, Özil 3 weeks, Coquelin 9 weeks.

Even up front Welbeck 56 weeks, Sanchez 11 weeks, Walcott 5 weeks.

And fans were frothing at the mouth that Wenger only came 2nd We had 7 times the number of injury weeks as Sp**s and still beat them.

Totally agree, but would still put some things into perspective.

Injuries cost us around 2-3 titles I'd say.

Not spending enough, and that's partly on Wenger in some moments to parts, where he might have trusted a few players a bit too much might be another one. But that refers more to the later years.

In that regard, the ultimate question, maybe the book will partly answer - "who decided in certain key moments/transfer windows that we are not going to buy player x/y that would put the finishing touches on an already very good squad ?"

And for that matter, not realizing that spending at that time would require double to thrice the money 1-2 years later because of an explosion of money in football.

Clubs like Real had many years with very questionable spending, but even if some players did not work out, their club worth increased massively, some players worked out and doubled their worth whilst the less good deals still went for the money the have come in originally because the money in the game soared.

 

[Makingtrax]

Totally agree, but would still put some things into perspective.

Injuries cost us around 2-3 titles I'd say.

Not spending enough, and that's partly on Wenger in some moments to parts, where he might have trusted a few players a bit too much might be another one. But that refers more to the later years.

In that regard, the ultimate question, maybe the book will partly answer - "who decided in certain key moments/transfer windows that we are not going to buy player x/y that would put the finishing touches on an already very good squad ?"

And for that matter, not realizing that spending at that time would require double to thrice the money 1-2 years later because of an explosion of money in football.

Clubs like Real had many years with very questionable spending, but even if some players did not work out, their club worth increased massively, some players worked out and doubled their worth whilst the less good deals still went for the money the have come in originally because the money in the game soared.

But how often has any team, in any European league won the title spending what Wenger did . . at his highest having the 5th biggest squad investment post 2004? You really think Wenger was that good, that he could have won 2 or 3 titles but for injuries?

 

[BigPoppaPump]

It makes good business sense, but ultimately the fans are going to slate you for it, and they did.

Ferguson kept up with Chelsea by borrowing hard and spending big. He outspent Wenger by 11 times over their rivalry period according to Transfermarkt figures. Yet fans still thought Wenger was poor because he ultimately couldn't get the same trophy haul.

But you know according to the cabal of geniuses on AM that money spent doesn't really matter and is miniscule to the success of a team.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Wenger was incredibly unlucky with injuries. 2015/16 season injury list is staggering. We had £15m in wasted wages.

Imagine starting a campaign with this list of midfielders: Wilshere, Arteta, Cazorla, Ramsey, Coq, Rosicky, Flamini, Ox, Özil.

Wilshere and Rosicky had setbacks and never even got back in the team. Arteta and Cazorla received career ending injuries. Ramsey out 8 weeks and Chamberlain 21 weeks, Özil 3 weeks, Coquelin 9 weeks.

Even up front Welbeck 56 weeks, Sanchez 11 weeks, Walcott 5 weeks.

And fans were frothing at the mouth that Wenger only came 2nd We had 7 times the number of injury weeks as Sp**s and still beat them.

Tbf you should know what you're getting with Rosicky, Wilshere, Ramsey and Ox even Arteta was on his last legs by 2015. That was my problem with Arsène, for someone so experienced he could be naive and had way too much faith in injury prone players or players who just can't perform consistently and when they did they would f off the first opportunity they got.

 

[Makingtrax]

Tbf you should know what you're getting with Rosicky, Wilshere, Ramsey and Ox even Arteta was on his last legs by 2015. That was my problem with Arsène, for someone so experienced he could be naive and had way too much faith in injury prone players or players who just can't perform consistently and when they did they would f off the first opportunity they got.

Arsène certainly got berated for that. Nobody expected Rosicky to come back really, but Wilshere was due to return and Arteta was only 33.

This current regime has just given a 3, with a 4 year option contract for a 32 year old and the bum squad who nearly all wanted Wenger out are the ones perfectly happy with that. Also Klopp is way up there amongst their esteem, and they used him regularly to have a go at Wenger, but he'd obviously seen Ox's record, but still wanted to invest all that money on him. Double standards.

The thing that really ruined that season was Cazorla's knock at Norwich which ultimately saw him off. Very sad, lovely two footed player.

 

[kash2]

But how often has any team, in any European league won the title spending what Wenger did . . at his highest having the 5th biggest squad investment post 2004? You really think Wenger was that good, that he could have won 2 or 3 titles but for injuries?

dont forget the referees in the reality show called the premier league

 

[A_G]

But you know according to the cabal of geniuses on AM that money spent doesn't really matter and is miniscule to the success of a team.

Literally no one has said this. They only say that money isn't the one and only factor in success, the theory pushed forward by Trax and co.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Literally no one has said this. They only say that money isn't the one and only factor in success, the theory pushed forward by Trax and co.

Pretty sure I've seen you say that verbatim tbh.

 

[A_G]

Pretty sure I've seen you say that verbatim tbh.

You haven't, because I've never said that. I've only ever said that money doesn't guarantee you success, and spending less than others doesn't mean you just admit defeat before the season begins.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

You haven't, because I've never said that. I've only ever said that money doesn't guarantee you success, and spending less than others doesn't mean you just admit defeat before the season begins.

Yeah but that was after I changed your mind.

 

[A_G]

Yeah but that was after I changed your mind.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Obviously no one said that same way no one said you should quit when the season starts, I do think people understate how much the difference in money effected Arsenal and how insane the cash injections Chelsea and City got.

 

[Makingtrax]

Pretty sure I've seen you say that verbatim tbh.

Yeah, you're right. @American_Gooner and the anti money brigade are always posting 'squad cost' when a lower team beats a bigger team. And they're always misquoting me pretending I say money is the only thing that matters.

The reality is they don't understand what I've been saying about money giving you better odds because of the players you can buy, and how those odds come into force over a number of games. Or how the teams at the top usually finish on or within a few places of the squad cost position. Or that teams below the top 7 or 8 are all grouped within a £100m or so, so their positions will be more random.

It's not an easy concept tbf, so not surprising they struggle

 

[Makingtrax]

You haven't, because I've never said that. I've only ever said that money doesn't guarantee you success, and spending less than others doesn't mean you just admit defeat before the season begins.

There's a huge difference between admitting defeat and being realistic. If no one looked at money the fans of lower teams would always be sacking their managers and getting depressed every season.

But understanding that teams like Chelsea, City, United and Liverpool have a big advantage, means you can work within your limitations.

 

[A_G]

Yeah, you're right.

Find me a quote where I said that verbatim. Not surprised you'd believe a fabrication like that.

Yeah, you're right. @American_Gooner and the anti money brigade are always posting 'squad cost' when a lower team beats a bigger team. And they're always misquoting me pretending I say money is the only thing that matters.

The reality is they don't understand what I've been saying about money giving you better odds because of the players you can buy, and how those odds come into force over a number of games. Or how the teams at the top usually finish on or within a few places of the squad cost position. Or that teams below the top 7 or 8 are all grouped within a £100m or so, so their positions will be more random.

It's not an easy concept tbf, so not surprising they struggle

Everyone knows what you mean. But things like tactical mistakes have nothing to do with money.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

Find me a quote where I said that verbatim. Not surprised you'd believe a fabrication like that.

Everyone knows what you mean. But things like tactical mistakes have nothing to do with money.

It's easier to cover for tactical mistakes when you can afford the best players in the world, which you get with money. Pep is full of 'tactical mistakes' and has his team play a ridiculous high line but doesn't matter because all his players are world class. Managers influence is miniscule compared to the quality and depth of players.

@Makingtrax is right, what should be a simple concept seems to confuse a lot of people. You're either a simpleton or an ostrich if you don't agree tbh.