Why do our players need the team built around them?

[lazyfreak]

The phrase itself is kind of redundant to me...every manger builds the team around the best players he has, surely?

I'd agree with that but in our case, it seems people use the idea of a team needing to built around certain players is to defend them (make excuses?) when in fact they've been crap. The most glaring case right now is Pepe!

Everybody has been saying the midfielders need to do this or need to do that, the fullback needs to this and that so Pepe can get closer to goal or be on the edge of the opposition penalty box or so he can be isolated 1v1 with the opposition fullback or whatever else.

It's a case of trying to spoon feed certain players because they have they're own idea of what they're suppose to be but currently aren't (who knows if they ever will be). In the case of Pepe, people have tagged him with "one of the best dribblers in world football" or anything else along those lines and because of that, they say other players need to do a whole lot more for him. Granted, maybe he could do with a bit better service or what have you, but overall he's been very disappointing so far like a 7.2M half-assed signing rather than a 72M one. Therefore a lot of the defense for him just comes across as excuses. I know the OP has similar sentiments as can be seen in the Pepe thread and this thread stems partly because of that.

 

[RunTheTrap]

We should build a team on the club's ideals, principles and philosophy on football. I would say Dortmund hit the nail on the head. From Klopp to Favre, the club ideals are young players, attacking style and a buy low and sell financial model. They know or at least Michael Zorc knows is no point building a team on a certain player or even a manager because they know the will leave when the offer is made.

We should be aiming to build something that even if that outlives any player or even manager. I add manager because we built everything on what Wenger saw what football was and unfortunately we are still suffering from his departure. His ideals became Arsenal's, which were inherently rigid and outdated in the new era of football. We should not make the same mistake and set our own ideals and principles and hopefully Raul delivers, if not find someone else who can.

Barcelona have their "More than a Club" (I forgot how to say it in Spanish) mantra and it suited them for awhile until they became dependent on Messi. Which when you couple that with their poor transfer dealings you can see how bad things will get when the Argentine retires. I see jokes on Twitter calling Messi a dictator and HE tells the board which players he wants to play with. I'm not sure how true that is but it's incredibly short-sighted that it might be true. This is how a club can easily lose their principles to a single identity and it can become their single fail point.

 

[shootxhakashoot]

We should build a team on the club's ideals, principles and philosophy on football. I would say Dortmund hit the nail on the head. From Klopp to Favre, the club ideals are young players, attacking style and a buy low and sell financial model. They know or at least Michael Zorc knows is no point building a team on a certain player or even a manager because they know the will leave when the offer is made.

We should be aiming to build something that even if that outlives any player or even manager. I add manager because we built everything on what Wenger saw what football was and unfortunately we are still suffering from his departure. His ideals became Arsenal's, which were inherently rigid and outdated in the new era of football. We should not make the same mistake and set our own ideals and principles and hopefully Raul delivers, if not find someone else who can.

Barcelona have their "More than a Club" (I forgot how to say it in Spanish) mantra and it suited them for awhile until they became dependent on Messi. Which when you couple that with their poor transfer dealings you can see how bad things will get when the Argentine retires. I see jokes on Twitter calling Messi a dictator and HE tells the board which players he wants to play with. I'm not sure how true that is but it's incredibly short-sighted that it might be true. This is how a club can easily lose their principles to a single identity and it can become their single fail point.

Yes, this. That identity should also reflect our funding (or lack of if thats the case). Wengers football style and project post Emirates move was a failure, we should should scrap most if not all of his football philosophy and rebuilt from ground zero. Scrap doesnt mean forget, its just not applicable to our current predicament. Arsenal is still a big club commercially around the world, build it and they will come.

 

[Ciscoo]

The phrase itself is kind of redundant to me...every manger builds the team around the best players he has, surely?

I agree the phrase feels a bit redundant now. There’s a simple fact to this: other teams buy players who are technical, tactical and athletic. These players are much more likely to gel, regardless of who the ‘star’ is. Saka and Tierney fit this criteria and so they’d easily slot into any system. Most of our other players don’t and that will hinder any team in the modern game.

For all the talk about money, Liverpool bought Mané and Salah for around the same price we bought Pépé. We need to buy smarter.

 

[musoke]

Think the first time I really heard this saying used in a negative sense, was with Arsène when he "built the team around" Cesc...when Big Wengz gave up all he knew after 2006 on how to compete, in order to make Fab his new top guy.

Always thought it was unfair to Fabregas, as people seemed to use that phrase to prove he wasn't good enough to win things with at this club...when it wasn't anything to do with him that we dropped off post stadium move, but just a lack of funds meant we couldn't really compete with Yanited and Chelski back then.

The phrase itself is kind of redundant to me...every manger builds the team around the best players he has, surely?

Cesc was too good but he couldn’t do it alone. He did his maximum but the team was so young as well as himself being a youngster. But he held the team together.

And I don’t think any wenger team was ever built around a given player.

 

[Trilly]

Maybe I just expect too much that an Arsenal player should be able to perform to a high level consistently even if the team is playing poorly.

This doesn’t even make sense. We’ve seen the two greatest players of all time struggle when their teams have played poorly.

They’ve both had their greatest successes when the teams they’ve been on have been good.

There’s a reason so many differnt players disagree with you in the threads you’re talking about. You’re the one in the minority, this is how football works. A great player in a rubbish team will show flashes of ability but they won’t do much overall.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

This doesn’t even make sense. We’ve seen the two greatest players of all time struggle when their teams have played poorly.

They’ve both had their greatest successes when the teams they’ve been on have been good.

There’s a reason so many differnt players disagree with you in the threads you’re talking about. You’re the one in the minority, this is how football works. A great player in a rubbish team will show flashes of ability but they won’t do much overall.

Didn't realise we had so many Arsenal players on the forum Consistently doesn't mean every game??? I also didn't mention success, just performances.

All the players I mentioned have been absolutely slated except for Pepe which is why i think your knickers are in a twist. The Pepe thread is just a echo chamber at this point, nobody really posts there unless they think hes better than Henry he just needs everything to come together. My opinion is that an Arsenal player should be able to deliver a high base line performance, clearly I am setting my expectations too high according to you.

A great player in a rubbish team will perform well consistently unless they are a limited player who may be great in certain scenarios. Ill be honest I couldn't see a great player like Viera struggle in this team. A limited player will play better in a better team no doubt which I think is where you're getting confused, I'm just making an observation and wondering do I expect too much. As an aside being in the minority isn't relevant, you should attack the argument not how many people agree or disagree with you.

 

[Macho]

The phrase itself is kind of redundant to me...every manger builds the team around the best players he has, surely?

This

I don’t see why it’s a crime or why this thread even exists really.

 

[Monstar-Gunn4r]

This

I don’t see why it’s a crime or why this thread even exists really.

I guess maybe I worded it wrong, what I mean really is why must there be so many allowances for our players to get an acceptable standard out of them. Why can they not perform is conditions are less than ideal and how are so many of them limited with their all round play.

 

[Macho]

Simple answer is recruitment which has been the obvious answer for a while now

Liverpool to their credit sign very specific targets and spend whatever it takes. We don’t do that we make more opportunistic buys instead. The amount of managers we’ve had in the past 2 seasons hasn’t helped either.

A few of our current players can thrive in the right conditions it’s just the truth, it’s a team sport. Not sure why this tilts people.

You don’t need both Lacazette and Aubameyang in the same team and yet, we did just that. It’s simple stuff really.

 

[truth_hurts]

Not enough leaders or talent in the team. Look at Saka and Martinelli. Both have played and performed in various positions, whilst excuses are made for players like Xhaka, Bellerin (I'm guilty), Torreria, Pepe (guilty) and Lacazette.