Would we have won the league if Cesc and Nasri stayed?

[Braydz]

We consider Liam Brady a legend don't we? Why not Cesc?

 

[AnthonyG]

We consider Liam Brady a legend don't we? Why not Cesc?

Because Brady has a bench and Cesc doesn't?

Seriously, though, it's not something you can push, this legend stuff. It happens or it doesn't. And it doesn't always happen straight away. Maybe Cesc will come back and devote 15+ years to the club in a managerial role? Or maybe not.

 

[Vela]

The term "legend" gets used to much, I don't think Fabregas was an Arsenal legend. He was a very good player for Arsenal but not a legend. Players like Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Adams I would class as legends. Players like Keown, Dixon, Winterburn etc I wouldn't.

 

[fabo]

Vieira never let things distract him on the field. He wanted to leave a few times, Henry wanted to leave aswell once the trophies dried up and he realised he'd never win a CL here. It happens.

 

[Glovegun]

The term "legend" gets used to much, I don't think Fabregas was an Arsenal legend. He was a very good player for Arsenal but not a legend. Players like Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Adams I would class as legends. Players like Keown, Dixon, Winterburn etc I wouldn't.

Personally I think the latter three are as well. All proper Arsenal men through and through who fought like lions for the shirt, won everything there was to win with us and formed one of the best backlines this country has ever seen. Only conceded 17 league goals in 1998/99. We nearly conceded that at Old Trafford alone this season. They might not have had the God given ability of Bergkamp or Henry, but each of those guys were also fantastic players.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

[Agreed, although we'd be a lot closer.

Once again, if those 2 are still in the club we would have never brought the players we brought in summer. And we would probably be behind Chelsea in the league table by now.

This is a "what if" thread, let's take it in the right spirit, eh?

Saying we definitely wouldn't have signed anyone if they'd stayed is just guessing, no one really knows. Even then, what's the harm in combining the best of both? It's just a mental exercise, nothing more.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Kanu won 2 Premier Leagues and 2 FA Cups in much fewer games than Cesc, is he a bigger legend?

Cygan won 1 Premier League and 2 FA Cup, legend!

Chris Wreh did the double with us in '98! Move over Cesc! Legend!

 

[DJ_Markstar]

We consider Liam Brady a legend don't we? Why not Cesc?

Because Brady has a bench and Cesc doesn't?

Seriously, though, it's not something you can push, this legend stuff. It happens or it doesn't. And it doesn't always happen straight away. Maybe Cesc will come back and devote 15+ years to the club in a managerial role? Or maybe not.

The thing is, there is also a trend to credit Brady for his post-playing career, and helping us out. This adds to his "legend status". So why is Vieira's time at Man City not counting against him?

I feel like the goalposts are constantly moved just so that Vieira and Brady are definite legends, but Cesc is definitely not. Not sure why, either.

Pretty sure RvP will be considered an Arsenal legend when he eventually goes, too.

 

[ebouenolike]

Players like Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Adams I would class as legends. Players like Keown, Dixon, Winterburn etc I wouldn't.

Lee Dixon who won plenty of trophies, 450+ games and who absolutely loved the club?

Winterburn who played 440 games for Arsenal, trophies and dedication?

Keown who played over 300 times for Arsenal.

I love Vieira, but if he's a legend at this club then the English defenders who made our best defence ever are absolute shoe ins.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Players like Henry, Bergkamp, Vieira, Adams I would class as legends. Players like Keown, Dixon, Winterburn etc I wouldn't.

Lee Dixon who won plenty of trophies, 450+ games and who absolutely loved the club?

Winterburn who played 440 games for Arsenal, trophies and dedication?

Keown who played over 300 times for Arsenal.

I love Vieira, but if he's a legend at this club then the English defenders who made our best defence ever are absolute shoe ins.

You're better than this 8))

Agree with the point, the whole "legend" thing needs to be consistent. I feel like it is just people voicing a few players that they remember fondly and nothing more. It has got to mean more than that.

 

[ebouenolike]

You're better than this 8))

Ha - I'm tired.

 

[Vela]

They were Arsenal through and through but like I said the term legend get's used to much IMO. A club can't have hundreds of legends.

Henry and Adams both have statures outside the Emirates as they are Arsenal legends. van Persie has the potential to be one if he signs a new deal and stays here until he retires IMO.

 

[AnthonyG]

The thing is, there is also a trend to credit Brady for his post-playing career, and helping us out. This adds to his "legend status". So why is Vieira's time at Man City not counting against him?

I feel like the goalposts are constantly moved just so that Vieira and Brady are definite legends, but Cesc is definitely not. Not sure why, either.

Pretty sure RvP will be considered an Arsenal legend when he eventually goes, too.

The goalposts can move wherever they want, he11 they can fall down for all I care. There is no set-in-stone criteria for these things; maybe Vieira's involvement with ManC will have a future effect, who knows. Maybe Cesc will come to be regarded as a bona fide legend, not sure. Maybe he already is.

The way I see it in Cesc's case, it's perhaps too early for any unanimous feelings of goodwill (right or wrong). Maybe his contributions will be recognised more once we've won something? Sports (and history) are littered with 'legends', whom, at the time, many would not have considered as such. Some might not even consider Brady a legend, now. It's fluid ... until it's not. And even then, in a lot of cases, there can be some dissension, whether it's popular or academic.

 

[a_fourteen]

Opinion on cesc is too polarizing for him to get legend status. There is consensus among the fans on guys like Henry, bergkamp, Adams. I will never consider cesc in that company.

 

[mavelous]

Would we be better off had we gotten Mata?

 

[Rain Dance]

I'm inspired by this thread, maybe I should make a thread "Would we have won the league If Bergkamp and Henry stayed young?"

there wouldn't be much to debate though

 

[dpt49]

Would we be better off had we gotten Mata?

Yes.
If we had bought him Chelsea would have have struggled to get where they are this season, because he has been, probably, their best player.

Because we wouldn't pay a bit extra, Chelsea got Mata and we got Gervinho.

 

[a_fourteen]

I'm inspired by this thread, maybe I should make a thread "Would we have won the league If Bergkamp and Henry stayed young?"

there wouldn't be much to debate though

We did...thrice.

 

[DJ_Markstar]

Opinion on cesc is too polarizing for him to get legend status. There is consensus among the fans on guys like Henry, bergkamp, Adams. I will never consider cesc in that company.

And this is why a voting system doesn't work.

 

[qs]

Cesc and Nasri were both negative influences on the side this time last year. Despite his ability Cesc had been a negative influence for all of his last season and about half of the season before that. He can say he loves Arsenal all he wants but his whole time here he was still focussed on Barcelona. Near the end that focus became a very clear end goal and thats what he was playing for rather than for the cannon on his shirt.

If you think we'd be finishing any higher than 3rd if Nasri and Cesc were here then you haven't been paying enough attention for the last few years. Good riddance to both and I'd happily get rid of any other player who isn't 100% committed from now on.