Arsenal Tactics Talk

[crazyman]

I've wanted 4-3-3 for years and the addition of Xhaka and El Neny has only increased that desire. We have a lot of quality midfielders but barely any combinations of two that actually work. Moving to a three will eliminate so many midfield problems. It should also make Bellerin an even more potent attacking force. If Özil was Zidane in the #10 role then I would understand sticking with 4-2-3-1, but he's not, so f--- it.

 

[BobP]

With respect. I completely disagree with that. Seen many posts about gaps in our defence, poor structure and unlike other clubs the players don't appear to be connected with pieces of invisible string etc etc.

But answer this, if our tactics are meh and our defence disjointed, how come we have one of the best defensive records in the premier league. We had the most clean sheets in 2015/16. And we've only lost once in 34 games now. It makes no sense.

And talking of Chelsea we walked through their defence like a knife through butter. They've already lost 3 times this season, even if Conte is new.

If we're master of anything now it's defence. Arsenal have become a really difficult team to beat, whatever people think they're seeing on the pitch.

Our defending is really quite ****, something which is exposed when we play a team with sufficient quality.

I'll use the recent PSG game as an example.

Their first goal epitomized how structurally unsound we are.

Motta has the ball and comes under absolutely no pressure, accordingly he plays a pass to Matuidi who is essentially being marked by not 1 but 2 of our defenders, Mustafi and Jenkinson, he gets by them, and whips it to the back post for Cavani to tap in.

The key question here is why was Motta not pressed? The answer is simple, because the player on the right (Sanchez I think) also had to take into consideration the presence of the advancing Maxwell, meaning If he was to belligerently press Motta, a clear avenue to Maxwell would be opened, with the space there for him to advance.

Why was Sanchez in the position of having to mark two zones at once? Simple because both Jenkinson and Mustafi were marking a single player, Matuidi. Theoretically, Matuidi was in Mustafi's 'zone', there was no need for Jenkinson to move inward and also mark him. Now, if Jenkinson remained in his 'zone', there would have at least been some sort of impediment to any advance by Maxwell, making him a less attractive passing option for Motta. Furthermore, Sanchez would have also been free to put some sort of pressure on Motta.

Maybe against lesser teams this isn't a problem because they may not have the players to play the Motta to Matuidi pass, but the point is giving such space and time on the ball to a player in such an area will ultimately prove to be detrimental.

 

[Makingtrax]

I'm sorry, I didn't really explain my thoughts well enough.

You see, I was in particular thinking about us in the past and Chelsea in the past, when we'd play scintillating attacking football but always seemed to crap the bed when we'd be pressured to defend, back then if we could have figured out our defense we'd probably be sitting on a couple of more trophies today.

I do this often, just go on and don't really notice if it makes sense to anybody else you know, because it makes sense to me...

I agree that our defense today is good; I think it could be improved, but there's not really much to complain about, although I don't like to claim such things has having one of the best defensive records this early in the season, it's safer to say when the season is over and it's set in stone.

And last season we weren't particularly better in defense than any other of the top six so I wouldn't call us masters of defense (yet), we're just plain good at most aspects of the game, but we're not really the best; that's not a slight just how I see it, our strongest play is still our attack but it's not as great as it used to be so it feels wrong to say we're masters of that as well...

I do feel like we're still in a identity crisis -one that we've been in for a few years, but that we now are finally resolving it, I think and I believe ultimately everyone agrees that we've improved year by year since we hit rock bottom back in 2011, because thems the facts.

Top posting

 

[Makingtrax]

Our defending is really quite ****, something which is exposed when we play a team with sufficient quality.

I'll use the recent PSG game as an example.

Their first goal epitomized how structurally unsound we are.

Motta has the ball and comes under absolutely no pressure, accordingly he plays a pass to Matuidi who is essentially being marked by not 1 but 2 of our defenders, Mustafi and Jenkinson, he gets by them, and whips it to the back post for Cavani to tap in.

The key question here is why was Motta not pressed? The answer is simple, because the player on the right (Sanchez I think) also had to take into consideration the presence of the advancing Maxwell, meaning If he was to belligerently press Motta, a clear avenue to Maxwell would be opened, with the space there for him to advance.

Why was Sanchez in the position of having to mark two zones at once? Simple because both Jenkinson and Mustafi were marking a single player, Matuidi. Theoretically, Matuidi was in Mustafi's 'zone', there was no need for Jenkinson to move inward and also mark him. Now, if Jenkinson remained in his 'zone', there would have at least been some sort of impediment to any advance by Maxwell, making him a less attractive passing option for Motta. Furthermore, Sanchez would have also been free to put some sort of pressure on Motta.

Maybe against lesser teams this isn't a problem because they may not have the players to play the Motta to Matuidi pass, but the point is giving such space and time on the ball to a player in such an area will ultimately prove to be detrimental.

You're right. Jenkinson made several mistakes in that game. The difference between him and Bellerin is chalk and cheese. He also struggles with his nerves imo. He looks like he doesn't want the ball and if he gets into a crossing position, it's usually over hit or scuffed.

Debuchy looked more assured for the short time he was on. He's been declared injured to the EPL, as has Giroud, no return dates yet. More problems for Wenger.

 

[scytheavatar]

And last season we weren't particularly better in defense than any other of the top six so I wouldn't call us masters of defense (yet), we're just plain good at most aspects of the game, but we're not really the best; that's not a slight just how I see it, our strongest play is still our attack but it's not as great as it used to be so it feels wrong to say we're masters of that as well...

I do feel like we're still in a identity crisis -one that we've been in for a few years, but that we now are finally resolving it, I think and I believe ultimately everyone agrees that we've improved year by year since we hit rock bottom back in 2011, because thems the facts.

We hit rock bottom last season, as far as quality of football went that was the worst season. For much of that season we were essentially a Louis Van Gaal team, full of sterile possession and completely clueless in the final third. The Ramsey/Flamini midfield was also the worst midfield we ever had, Denilson would have probably started ahead of either of those 2. I rate the seasons as 2013/2014 > 2014/2015 > 2011/2012 > 2012/2013 > 2015/2016.

But answer this, if our tactics are meh and our defence disjointed, how come we have one of the best defensive records in the premier league. We had the most clean sheets in 2015/16. And we've only lost once in 34 games now. It makes no sense.

2015/2016 was rock bottom for pretty much all of the big PL clubs, that's how Leicester won the title. That's why Utd/Chelsea/Citeh all had new managers. Ok it might not be rock bottom for Utd, going by how they are this season...... but you get the idea.

It needs to be emphasized that since Steve Bould became assistant manager we have been transitioning towards being a more defensive, structured team and less of a YOLO team. This season we have been playing more YOLO football with a higher line and more players high up the pitch, but we are no longer as strong offensively as we are in the past. So we need to be even better defensively to be able to win the title.

 

[Mark Tobias]

We hit rock bottom last season, as far as quality of football went that was the worst season. For much of that season we were essentially a Louis Van Gaal team, full of sterile possession and completely clueless in the final third. The Ramsey/Flamini midfield was also the worst midfield we ever had, Denilson would have probably started ahead of either of those 2. I rate the seasons as 2013/2014 > 2014/2015 > 2011/2012 > 2012/2013 > 2015/2016.



2015/2016 was rock bottom for pretty much all of the big PL clubs, that's how Leicester won the title. That's why Utd/Chelsea/Citeh all had new managers. Ok it might not be rock bottom for Utd, going by how they are this season...... but you get the idea.

It needs to be emphasized that since Steve Bould became assistant manager we have been transitioning towards being a more defensive, structured team and less of a YOLO team. This season we have been playing more YOLO football with a higher line and more players high up the pitch, but we are no longer as strong offensively as we are in the past. So we need to be even better defensively to be able to win the title.

NOt sure why people do not understand that LCFC winning last year was an absolute fluke of note. It will NEVER happen that way again. At least not in my lifetime. Everything went their way, from injuries to the top teams all dropping points where they should have to soft penalties given to them. In no way does finishing 2nd to LCFC signify that we have improved. We were the best of the worst in the league bar LCFC.

 

[Makingtrax]

It needs to be emphasized that since Steve Bould became assistant manager we have been transitioning towards being a more defensive, structured team and less of a YOLO team. This season we have been playing more YOLO football with a higher line and more players high up the pitch, but we are no longer as strong offensively as we are in the past. So we need to be even better defensively to be able to win the title.

I agree with this. We're much changed, hard to beat and prepared to give up possession.

Where we still struggle a bit is in transition and creating chances as you've alluded to. Liverpool on the other hand are creating chances for fun but struggling defensively.

With respect to last season, it wasn't the overall standard of football that was poor but the consistency from match to match. In October Man C beat Newcastle 6-1 and Bournemouth 5-1 with some scintillating match play. But by February they'd had 51 injuries . . you can't win the league with those stats.

The tighter the league gets with all this TV money the more injuries and other non 'match day football' factors come into play.

 

[SummerNight]

I think it's stupid that Wenger uses Sánchez as a striker in some games.

 

[Makingtrax]

I think it's stupid that Wenger uses Sánchez as a striker in some games.

Guessing that crazy comment is click bait to advertise something amongst a young male dominated demographic.

Wait . . what's that about a PDF for the desperate on how to get girls?

Hope your advice is better than your marketing.

 

[Vinci]

Guessing that crazy comment is click bait to advertise something amongst a young male dominated demographic.

Wait . . what's that about a PDF for the desperate on how to get girls?

Hope your advice is better than your marketing.

Don't bother with that site, the answer to get any girl you want is real simple: money.

 

[SummerNight]

Don't bother with that site, the answer to get any girl you want is real simple: money.

Good luck with that attitude Anyways, this is not about my sig or whatnot, let's keep it on-topic.

 

[Fallout]

although we are doing well and seem well-positioned to have a good season, certain things about our tactics annoy me.

the biggest problem is ozils role. with sanchez playing a messi-esque false nine, Özil becomes our primary runner in behind, which has totally wasted his creative potential. so while sanchez is doing incredibly well in that role, Özil has been drifting out of games for the majority of the season (bar some notable exceptions). this needs to be fixed imo. Özil is primarily a creator who can finish sometimes, sanchez is primarily a finisher who can create sometimes. right now they are playing opposite roles.

the second problem is left wing. we are not getting reliable production from that flank. i really, really like iwobi but hes not ready yet. shoe-horning ramsey there is just bad, and ive unfortunately lost faith in oxlade to rediscover himself.

the final problem is center midfield. we are incredibly reliant on our cm's because we generally try to flood everyone forward, especially the fullbacks. this means the cm's must create a wall in front of the back line while also trying to contribute in the final third with dynamic passes and incisive runs. looking at who we've got in that position, thats asking too much. we have midfielders who are very, very good at some aspects of the game but struggle when asked to contribute beyond that.

my solution is 4-3-3 false nine. Özil at false nine. sanchez and theo wide. ramsey, elneny, and xhaka middle. here's why i think it addresses all of our problems.

with Özil at false nine, he'll do exactly what sanchez does now ... drift back to pick up the ball in space. for me, this is where he is most likely to impact games. we've seen sanchez make some incredible passes from these positions, but im positive Özil can make those and even more. on the counter, Özil can either make runs in behind like he does now or again drift in and spray incisive passes forward.

with sanchez back on the wing, yes we will get less production from him, but it will still be a hell of a lot, and it will be way more than what are getting from iwobi, ox, or ramsey.

finally, our central midfield strengthens considerably. with ramsey, we have a willing runner from central midfield to complement Özil when he drops back. with elneny, we have a connector who moves the ball quickly and efficiently and who also has incredible stamina to shield the back line. i would play xhaka in between ramsey and elneny. as we've seen from the Sp**s and bournemouth games, xhaka has a tackle in him, but only when he can get close to the ball. playing him at the base of a midfield three allows him to shield the defense without having to move too much, while also allowing him to collect the ball from the center backs and spray it all over the pitch with long range passes. that was the role he played for his former team and also for his international side.

apologies for the long post, i just had to get it all out.

 

[Makingtrax]

Don't bother with that site, the answer to get any girl you want is real simple: money.

It's worked well for Trump and Jagger over the years.

But would you want a gold digging woman?

 

[nick gould]

although we are doing well and seem well-positioned to have a good season, certain things about our tactics annoy me.

the biggest problem is ozils role. with sanchez playing a messi-esque false nine, Özil becomes our primary runner in behind, which has totally wasted his creative potential. so while sanchez is doing incredibly well in that role, Özil has been drifting out of games for the majority of the season (bar some notable exceptions). this needs to be fixed imo. Özil is primarily a creator who can finish sometimes, sanchez is primarily a finisher who can create sometimes. right now they are playing opposite roles.

the second problem is left wing. we are not getting reliable production from that flank. i really, really like iwobi but hes not ready yet. shoe-horning ramsey there is just bad, and ive unfortunately lost faith in oxlade to rediscover himself.

the final problem is center midfield. we are incredibly reliant on our cm's because we generally try to flood everyone forward, especially the fullbacks. this means the cm's must create a wall in front of the back line while also trying to contribute in the final third with dynamic passes and incisive runs. looking at who we've got in that position, thats asking too much. we have midfielders who are very, very good at some aspects of the game but struggle when asked to contribute beyond that.

my solution is 4-3-3 false nine. Özil at false nine. sanchez and theo wide. ramsey, elneny, and xhaka middle. here's why i think it addresses all of our problems.

with Özil at false nine, he'll do exactly what sanchez does now ... drift back to pick up the ball in space. for me, this is where he is most likely to impact games. we've seen sanchez make some incredible passes from these positions, but im positive Özil can make those and even more. on the counter, Özil can either make runs in behind like he does now or again drift in and spray incisive passes forward.

with sanchez back on the wing, yes we will get less production from him, but it will still be a hell of a lot, and it will be way more than what are getting from iwobi, ox, or ramsey.

finally, our central midfield strengthens considerably. with ramsey, we have a willing runner from central midfield to complement Özil when he drops back. with elneny, we have a connector who moves the ball quickly and efficiently and who also has incredible stamina to shield the back line. i would play xhaka in between ramsey and elneny. as we've seen from the Sp**s and bournemouth games, xhaka has a tackle in him, but only when he can get close to the ball. playing him at the base of a midfield three allows him to shield the defense without having to move too much, while also allowing him to collect the ball from the center backs and spray it all over the pitch with long range passes. that was the role he played for his former team and also for his international side.

apologies for the long post, i just had to get it all out.

Don't apologise. This is a brilliant post however I happen to think that Lucas on the left could just be as effective. He can make runs in behind and can assist too. He takes the burden of Theo, Sanchez and Özil by scoring goals. And it doesn't affect the rest of the team.

 

[NotAUserName]

although we are doing well and seem well-positioned to have a good season, certain things about our tactics annoy me.

the biggest problem is ozils role. with sanchez playing a messi-esque false nine, Özil becomes our primary runner in behind, which has totally wasted his creative potential. so while sanchez is doing incredibly well in that role, Özil has been drifting out of games for the majority of the season (bar some notable exceptions). this needs to be fixed imo. Özil is primarily a creator who can finish sometimes, sanchez is primarily a finisher who can create sometimes. right now they are playing opposite roles.

the second problem is left wing. we are not getting reliable production from that flank. i really, really like iwobi but hes not ready yet. shoe-horning ramsey there is just bad, and ive unfortunately lost faith in oxlade to rediscover himself.

the final problem is center midfield. we are incredibly reliant on our cm's because we generally try to flood everyone forward, especially the fullbacks. this means the cm's must create a wall in front of the back line while also trying to contribute in the final third with dynamic passes and incisive runs. looking at who we've got in that position, thats asking too much. we have midfielders who are very, very good at some aspects of the game but struggle when asked to contribute beyond that.

my solution is 4-3-3 false nine. Özil at false nine. sanchez and theo wide. ramsey, elneny, and xhaka middle. here's why i think it addresses all of our problems.

with Özil at false nine, he'll do exactly what sanchez does now ... drift back to pick up the ball in space. for me, this is where he is most likely to impact games. we've seen sanchez make some incredible passes from these positions, but im positive Özil can make those and even more. on the counter, Özil can either make runs in behind like he does now or again drift in and spray incisive passes forward.

with sanchez back on the wing, yes we will get less production from him, but it will still be a hell of a lot, and it will be way more than what are getting from iwobi, ox, or ramsey.

finally, our central midfield strengthens considerably. with ramsey, we have a willing runner from central midfield to complement Özil when he drops back. with elneny, we have a connector who moves the ball quickly and efficiently and who also has incredible stamina to shield the back line. i would play xhaka in between ramsey and elneny. as we've seen from the Sp**s and bournemouth games, xhaka has a tackle in him, but only when he can get close to the ball. playing him at the base of a midfield three allows him to shield the defense without having to move too much, while also allowing him to collect the ball from the center backs and spray it all over the pitch with long range passes. that was the role he played for his former team and also for his international side.

apologies for the long post, i just had to get it all out.

Not sure if Özil has what it takes to play as a false 9. The reason it kind of works for Sanchez is not only because he drops deep to make passes, he is also a very good dribbler, can hold off opponents and of course a much better finisher. He is more complete than Özil hence better suited to the role. I'd still play Özil on one of the flanks but give him a free role like how Messi/Muller/Silva (for Spain mostly) are currently utilized.

Also think we are missing a good dribbler in that midfield, especially in Santi's absence.

 

[redanddread]

Our defending is really quite ****, something which is exposed when we play a team with sufficient quality.

I'll use the recent PSG game as an example.

Their first goal epitomized how structurally unsound we are.

Motta has the ball and comes under absolutely no pressure, accordingly he plays a pass to Matuidi who is essentially being marked by not 1 but 2 of our defenders, Mustafi and Jenkinson, he gets by them, and whips it to the back post for Cavani to tap in.

The key question here is why was Motta not pressed? The answer is simple, because the player on the right (Sanchez I think) also had to take into consideration the presence of the advancing Maxwell, meaning If he was to belligerently press Motta, a clear avenue to Maxwell would be opened, with the space there for him to advance.

Why was Sanchez in the position of having to mark two zones at once? Simple because both Jenkinson and Mustafi were marking a single player, Matuidi. Theoretically, Matuidi was in Mustafi's 'zone', there was no need for Jenkinson to move inward and also mark him. Now, if Jenkinson remained in his 'zone', there would have at least been some sort of impediment to any advance by Maxwell, making him a less attractive passing option for Motta. Furthermore, Sanchez would have also been free to put some sort of pressure on Motta.

Maybe against lesser teams this isn't a problem because they may not have the players to play the Motta to Matuidi pass, but the point is giving such space and time on the ball to a player in such an area will ultimately prove to be detrimental.

It's this passive low block that we often utilise. We still get caught out a little too often not applying pressure on the man with the ball and play a dangerous offside trap at the same time - the goal you talked about was a prime example.

If there's no pressure on the passer then go with the runners - that's how I understand it to be.

Our defense is still a worry for me. Never comfortable when we slip into defensive mode as the opposition seems to get too close to our goal for my liking. We're more reactive than proactive at the back sometimes. I wish we were more aggressive in our defending in the middle/final 3rd at times. Saying that Mustafi can be overly aggressive too often for my liking at times.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

Alexis must stay higher up the pitch, and play on the shoulder more. I bet yous will be surprised how much more potent we become if Alexis just looks for the ball in behind on occasions. Occasionally dropping deep does wonders for us keeping possession and playing fluid footy, but we need that point of reference in attack.

Alexis has it in him to be one of the best pure strikers on the planet, I genuinely believe that. But sometimes he needs to trust his teammates to create chances for him, rather than forcing the issue himself. Man Utd is the obvious example, he spent more time by the half way line than he did in the opposition box.

He needs to mix up his game a bit, dropping deeper when the game needs it and staying on the shoulder mainly.

 

[redanddread]

Alexis must stay higher up the pitch, and play on the shoulder more. I bet yous will be surprised how much more potent we become if Alexis just looks for the ball in behind on occasions. Occasionally dropping deep does wonders for us keeping possession and playing fluid footy, but we need that point of reference in attack.

Alexis has it in him to be one of the best pure strikers on the planet, I genuinely believe that. But sometimes he needs to trust his teammates to create chances for him, rather than forcing the issue himself. Man Utd is the obvious example, he spent more time by the half way line than he did in the opposition box.

He needs to mix up his game a bit, dropping deeper when the game needs it and staying on the shoulder mainly.

He'll stay up there more if his midfielders get the ball to him - at OT he was forced to drop back because, well we all know the ****fest that was happening in our midfield.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

He'll stay up there more if his midfielders get the ball to him - at OT he was forced to drop back because, well we all know the ****fest that was happening in our midfield.

Yeah that's true, but he also drops deep unnecessarily. Against Bournemouth when we had control of the game he kept dropping deep. It's a tricky one because he loves being on the ball. I'd just like to see him making more striker-like runs. He has the pace and finishing ability to be our Aguero... and then some!

 

[4R5Emaniac]

Özil
Xhaka Elneny

I really feel there is a lot of potential in that trio if they play regularly. In theory it has balance,efficiency and productivity.

@Lancelot Where are you, buddy?