Is Kroenke Holding Us Back?

[SuperGoon]

Every Arsenal fan puts up a tenner, we buy majority shares, then sell them off, preferably at a profit, to a new owner who agrees in writing to reinvest for success. C'mon lets do this ****!

We can't even agree on who should be our striker. No way we should have that sort of responsibility.

 

[samshere]

That's actually not true. A covenant can be applied to the key subsidiaries in a group and Arsenal would be one of the key subsidiaries in this case. There's little point in applying a covenant to a holding company if it doesn't take out cash or hold real assets.

The point is not about whether he is servicing his debt by taking money out. The point is that he may be handcuffing the club because of such restrictive covenants where certain debt ratios or cash amounts need to be maintained so as not to trigger a massive default across the entire KSE group. It's highly believable because most rich people do not keep cash in their banks.

Still very unlikely, enforcing such a covenant on Arsenal would be counter productive, in that it'll make Arsenal perform worse in their business(of playing football) and ultimately affect its valuation. Don't think any self respecting businessman would propose or accept such conditions. This entire concept is pure speculation fueled by the news that he acquired his ranch, with an attempt to tie it up to Arsenal's lack of spending. There is not a single fact anywhere.
Anyway, I'm sure this will be taken up by the AST in the next general body meeting where things will become clearer.

 

[Batman]

Chelski, Utd and City have to abide by FFP same as everyone else ... Mansour has invested an estimated 1,300m in City ... his investment is now worth 3,000m ... that's business not pleasure ...

FYI Chelski made 16m more profit than us in the last reported figures, and City only lost 18m, they are expected to make record profits this year ....

Club Finances 2015

Mansour comes from a region where people pay into 7 figures to get low numbered license plates because they're a sign of status. Literally these people will pony up millions of dollars to enjoy the "prestige" of having a license plate in the hundreds rather than thousands or tens rather than hundreds. Manchester City is not a business venture for Mansour. He's making money because you'd have to be a ***** not to in football but make no mistake it's purely a matter of vanity and prestige which is as close as you're going to get to love these days. He owns the club and wants success because they're cool accessories that are valued in his world. It's the same reason that Usmanov wants in this club. It probably pisses him off more than anything that he doesn't have a toy like Arsenal to show off to his friends. It's no different to buying a Bugatti. The second you sit your ass in it you've lost money but how many people have them?

You'd have to be a fool to suggest Abramovich is in it for the money. The amount of severance he's had to pay managers over the years is obscene. Why has he done it? Because rightly or wrongly he's made the moves he thinks will win his team the trophies he covets and that's what it's about. There are plenty of other ways for him to fill his coffers with cash. Chelsea is source of pride to him which is why he's so quick to spend whatever it costs to win. The fact that he happens to actually be turning a prophet finally is incidental. When you've got the kind of money that Roman and especially Mansour have got another few quid a year(relative to them) means f*ck all compared to the bragging rights that come with owning a prestigious club.

Kroenke is clearly different. If he gave a f*ck about winning he'd have invested his own money into the club immediately. Not only that, he'd have demanded results rather than been content with 4th place finishes that do enough to keep his business model in tact. You can pretty obviously see the difference between proactive owners like Abramovich and Mansour and owners content to sit back so long as their money isn't affected. Abramovich or Mansour would have forced Wenger to buy players and fire him if the results weren't titles. That's the difference between running a business and running a football club. It would have cost them more but they'd have valued the fruits of that cost i.e. winning above the profit margin.

 

[celestis]

@Batman , Mansour definitely has business aspects to his owning of Man City , Melbourne City and the other club in the MLS . Roman needs Chelsea for visibility .

 

[Gael Clea-show]

No lol.

I know I will be rich one day. Im an entrepreneur. Currently broke as hell but my time will come. Just need to keep working hard until I make that breakthrough.

Wasting time on AM probably isn't helping though lol.

Hi best friend

 

[TheSage]

Mansour comes from a region where people pay into 7 figures to get low numbered license plates because they're a sign of status. Literally these people will pony up millions of dollars to enjoy the "prestige" of having a license plate in the hundreds rather than thousands or tens rather than hundreds. Manchester City is not a business venture for Mansour. He's making money because you'd have to be a ***** not to in football but make no mistake it's purely a matter of vanity and prestige which is as close as you're going to get to love these days. He owns the club and wants success because they're cool accessories that are valued in his world. It's the same reason that Usmanov wants in this club. It probably pisses him off more than anything that he doesn't have a toy like Arsenal to show off to his friends. It's no different to buying a Bugatti. The second you sit your ass in it you've lost money but how many people have them?

You'd have to be a fool to suggest Abramovich is in it for the money. The amount of severance he's had to pay managers over the years is obscene. Why has he done it? Because rightly or wrongly he's made the moves he thinks will win his team the trophies he covets and that's what it's about. There are plenty of other ways for him to fill his coffers with cash. Chelsea is source of pride to him which is why he's so quick to spend whatever it costs to win. The fact that he happens to actually be turning a prophet finally is incidental. When you've got the kind of money that Roman and especially Mansour have got another few quid a year(relative to them) means f*ck all compared to the bragging rights that come with owning a prestigious club.

Kroenke is clearly different. If he gave a f*ck about winning he'd have invested his own money into the club immediately. Not only that, he'd have demanded results rather than been content with 4th place finishes that do enough to keep his business model in tact. You can pretty obviously see the difference between proactive owners like Abramovich and Mansour and owners content to sit back so long as their money isn't affected. Abramovich or Mansour would have forced Wenger to buy players and fire him if the results weren't titles. That's the difference between running a business and running a football club. It would have cost them more but they'd have valued the fruits of that cost i.e. winning above the profit margin.

Good post .... agree with a lot of it but you have Mansour very wrong ... whilst it is primarily his money he's investing it via Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) believe me they are all about making money ... they bought and now have a very clear plan for City Football Group Limited seeing it as a world leading sports club owning business designed to make a double digit margin on a multi-billion dollar investment, City in the end will be just a small part of this strategy ... and yes titles and trophies are vital to that success and he will spend what it takes ... it's not only vanity it's also bloody good business ...

Who will be favourites for the EPL next season? 100% it will be City ...

 

[logic DC]

yeah he is but in saying that the team is also holding themselves back, stan had nothing to do with our lose to chelsea at home or our terrible form lately which has seen us falling behind Leicester.

 

[tap-in]

yeah he is but in saying that the team is also holding themselves back, stan had nothing to do with our lose to chelsea at home or our terrible form lately which has seen us falling behind Leicester.

Indirectly Kroenke is partly responsible for our results. Sure, its Wengers fault that we did not have adequate cover for Coq, but surely the owner takes responsibility for handing Wenger a contract regardless of whether we win the PL or even make a challenge. You can guarantee he will be offered another contract this season regardless of how we finish. For this reason, Kroenke is responsible.

 

[Axel_Gunner]

That's the part I don't understand. Why are some Arsenal fans so worried about spending? It does not in any way cheapen your success if you're spending your own money. We don't get a special prize for not spending money.

its okay to spend more (i think most of arsenal fans want this).
but i dont want to spend that exzessive amounts that were paid over last years by some clubs. thats neither good for club nor for the players.

 

[Jasard]

The summer was a big mess, we are in a position now where this summer we need to replace a lot of players AND add to the squad. We only had to spend a bit to keep us out of this mess. Probably more Wenger's fault though I imagine.

 

[Godwin1]

its okay to spend more (i think most of arsenal fans want this).
but i dont want to spend that exzessive amounts that were paid over last years by some clubs. thats neither good for club nor for the players.

We just needed to add outfield playes in the summer ffs. I don't care how much we spend, we could spend 200m in theory which would both be money we've earnt and in our means.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

We just needed to add outfield playes in the summer ffs. I don't care how much we spend, we could spend 200m in theory which would both be money we've earnt and in our means.

In what position, and what player did you wanted us to sign?

 

[Godwin1]

In what position, and what player did you wanted us to sign?

ST, CM and RW were positions that could and should have been filled. Wenger needs to earn his money and find someone to replace Giroud with. FFS Hydro you've been saying the same thing in the Giroud thread for months.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

ST, CM and RW were positions that could and should have been filled. Wenger needs to earn his money and find someone to replace Giroud with. FFS Hydro you've been saying the same thing in the Giroud thread for months.

Yupp but I also say that it felt that the right players for Wenger weren't available in the summer. I rather wait for right player than replace Giroud with another Giroud. Imagine the horror if we replaced him with Benteke or Lukaku.

Fans only live in 2-3 weeks periods while manager have to thing 1-2 years ahead. No need for Wenger to fill the squad with more dross on 5 year contracts while he is waiting for Flamini and Arteta contracts to run out.

 

[Fallout]

i'd be shocked if kroenke has subjected the club to explicit covenants that restrict our spending. i think we're just an asset in his portfolio. he probably has very limited involvement in anything we do. my guess is he appointed his son to the board just to make sure we don't do anything crazy while he's unaware (not that such a thing would ever happen).

prior to buying our club, he was on our board for a long time, so he knows exactly what culture we have in the boardroom, and because of that he knew that we were one of the safest sports investments he could have made.

i think fans are upset because it's clear he views us as a sporting investment rather than a passion. but he's not holding us back, nor moving us forward. any spending or lack of spending is down to Arsène wenger / the board and not kroenke.

a 3mil dividend every year, however, i have a problem with. okay, the money is small given our profits and net worth ... but it adds up over time. and on principle, if he's not willing to put anything else into the business, it's ethically wrong to take cash out, and it reinforces the idea that fans are simply customers buying a product rather than supporters supporting a club.

 

[Godwin1]

Yupp but I also say that it felt that the right players for Wenger weren't available in the summer. I rather wait for right player than replace Giroud with another Giroud. Imagine the horror if we replaced him with Benteke or Lukaku.

Fans only live in 2-3 weeks periods while manager have to thing 1-2 years ahead. No need for Wenger to fill the squad with more dross on 5 year contracts while he is waiting for Flamini and Arteta contracts to run out.

If you don't think there are any options out there that will impove upon this squad, and improve upon Giroud then I don't know what to say. Like I said in the Giroud thread, something which you agreed with, it's not the case anyone of waiting for a world class striker to replace Giroud with. We simply need a striker that's going to change the dynamic of the team. If 12 touches Walcott can do it then anyone can.

Waiting untill january to sign a CM who hasn't played yet so we have to endure flamini fo a longer period of time simply isn't good enough mate. Wenger botched another transfer window, you know it and I know it, I don't think there are many on here who deny this.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

If you don't think there are any options out there that will impove upon this squad, and improve upon Giroud then I don't know what to say. Like I said in the Giroud thread, something which you agreed with, it's not the case anyone of waiting for a world class striker to replace Giroud with. We simply need a striker that's going to change the dynamic of the team. If 12 touches Walcott can do it then anyone can.

Waiting untill january to sign a CM who hasn't played yet so we have to endure flamini fo a longer period of time simply isn't good enough mate. Wenger botched another transfer window, you know it and I know it, I don't think there are many on here who deny this.

What players out there would you have sign?

Arsène and his scouts have to deal with a lot more imformation than us who just want the club to go out and sign player.

 

[eye4goal]

he's not holding us back, nor moving us forward. any spending or lack of spending is down to Arsène wenger / the board and not kroenke.

Its hard to say for definite. I get the feeling he'll not be around post Wenger as the club will not be as "stable" then. Maybe he's building up the cash reserves towards selling it on Wenger retires. The previous "custodians" did the same to the detriment of the football club.

 

[Batman]

@Batman , Mansour definitely has business aspects to his owning of Man City , Melbourne City and the other club in the MLS . Roman needs Chelsea for visibility .

I'm not saying that there's absolutely no business aspect to it. Of course that has to come into play. We're comparing these 2 to Kroenke though. The fact is that these seem much more like vanity projects that actually matter in terms of Mansour/Abramovich's image rather than just parts of the portfolio. I certainly don't dispute that there's a calculated strategy to make money though. I just feel they have more invested in the success of their clubs than money exclusively whereas Kroenke wouldn't care if we never won anything if the return on investment was acceptable.

 

[Sweggeh]

Lol, the good ol "the right players weren't available" line.

Funny how every single club in Europe could find the right players yet Arsenal couldn't find a single outfield player to improve the team.

Funny how Barcelona, Bayern, Real, PSG and Juventus all went out and improved their teams with fresh players and improved several positions in their team.

If only they knew all they needed to do was follow the Arsenal way of buying no one. Thats why we win title after title while those clubs don't.

Thats the story these Wenger lovers are trying to spin, huh?