Life after Wenger | Ornstein: Arsenal set to appoint Unai Emery

[Makingtrax]

What Simeone has done at A. Madrid is similar to what Wenger did during the mid-late 2000's. A. Madrid were in horrendous debt just 3-4 years ago, which they've now cleared while being more competitive than every single Premier League team. He's turned A. Madrid into a genuine world class team while operating on a profit from transfers. What he has done quite frankly puts every single Premier League club to shame.

Imagine if you guys were one of the most feared teams and a constant potential league AND CL winner from 2007 to 2011. That's what Simeone has done at A. Madrid.

What he's done at A. Madrid is nothing short of amazing. To call it the most impressive managerial feat of our lifetime is debatable, but the fact that it's not even hyperbole just shows the brilliance he's displayed.

I would argue that winning the Spanish league and reaching the CL final in a season where he spent £30m less than he sold for - in a league where the two biggest financial football giants both operate - is the greatest managerial feat of the last 20 years. They ****ing sold Falcao, a guy most people thought was their lord and savior, replaced him with an aging David Villa for £4m and won the league

We're witnessing something special with this guy.

Bet he stays at Atletico for 20 years now he's God to their fans. He's so good he'll probably keep them 2nd or 3rd every year.

But you know what people are like today, he'll become a victim of his own success and fans will expect him to beat the richer teams, even though he's no right to. Younger fans on the Atletico forum will start getting abusive towards him through frustration, they'll say believe in Simeone, believe in 3rd, and start taking banners to matches.

It's just a hunch.

 

[Makingtrax]

Pretty much no and no.. what Clough did at Forest, pisses all over that theory

When he was drinking heavily what Clough did at Forest was pretty much piss all over everything.

 

[Dokaka]

Pretty much no and no.. what Clough did at Forest, pisses all over that theory

Done in a completely different climate. There is very much a football establishment now, with the gap between global elites and mid-tier sides being bigger than ever before. Man Utd bought Pogba for the same amount that our owners bought our club for 7 years ago. You just can't compare the 70's and 80's to today's game, and I'm not even talking about the quality of the football on the pitch.

Just the wages alone makes it impossible for a mid-tier Spanish club to be competitive. The TV in England has made it a slightly more even playing field, but the gap is still huge.

That's what Simeone has managed to work around. Any time a player broke through for A. Madrid in recent years, they'd have to sell him for a decent fee to a giant and then immediately replace him. And he ****ing did it, every single time.

The entire club is operating on Simeone being a better manager than everyone else

 

[Rex Stone]

Atletico was **** before he came there.He just put them in another level.

Actually I think Quique Flores is unfairly forgotten in the role he played with us. Managed to bring a winning mentality taking us to two cup finals, one of which we won and although we weren't as competitive in the league like now he really turned us around following up and down years under Aguirre and Resino.

The team was starting to come together under him until he fell out with Forlan.

 

[Mitch]

Simeone's transformation of Atletico is the most impressive managerial feat of our lifetimes.

No where near. Eddie Howe achievements and transformation of Bournemouth, Ferguson at both Aberdeen and Man Utd and Brian Clough at Notts Forest ****s on it from a great height off the top of my head. I'd argue Wengers transformation of Arsenal, Klopp titles at Dortmund and Raneris LCFC league win as relegation candidates is better also.

 

[VancouverCanuck]

Bet he stays at Atletico for 20 years now he's God to their fans. He's so good he'll probably keep them 2nd or 3rd every year.

But you know what people are like today, he'll become a victim of his own success and fans will expect him to beat the richer teams, even though he's no right to. Younger fans on the Atletico forum will start getting abusive towards him through frustration, they'll say believe in Simeone, believe in 3rd, and start taking banners to matches.

It's just a hunch.

In a few years, when Simeone's team no longer be able to finish in the top 2, he will start saying that fans should already be satisfied with CL qualification. In fact, making into the CL is like winning a trophy. And not only his team loses to Real or Barca regularly, it will be by huge margin like 6-0 or 5-1. The team will start the season strongly, playing some mesmerizing football along the way. But in crucial stage of the season, they will always find ways to bottle it. The title race will always be over for them by the month of Feburary. They will never make it past the round of 16 in the CL, losing to the likes of AC Milan and Monaco. And if they meet a bigger team like Bayern, the team may play well for 45 minutes but as soon as the other team scores, Atletico will fold and cannot stop making basic defensive errors. The tie will always be over after the first leg. When the team slips up against the smaller teams in La Liga, Simeone will start saying how his team is not mentally prepared for the match and the players were playing with the handbrakes on. No team in Europe will ever fear Atletico again. In fact, they look forward to playing against them.

Despite all that, there will be at least one Atletico fan who keeps insisting Simeone remains the right man for the job despite his last real success was over 10 years ago. For the great job that Simeone has done in the last 5 years, he never has to achieve anything again and can have the manager job for life.

It's just a hunch.

 

[Dokaka]

No where near. Eddie Howe achievements

Getting a Championship team promoted to the Prem and battling relegation for 2 seasons ****s on Simeone's achievements? :s Your post reeks of PL bias.

Klopp's performance at Dortmund was similar domestically but he did not have nearly the same consistency in Europe. Beating Bayern (the only real contender tbf) is also inherently less impressive than beating both Real Madrid and Barcelona, both better than Bayern.

Lots of exaggeration going on in this thread. Saying Howe's achievements "****s" on Simeone's is just ridiculous. Howe in general is being hyped up to an extreme level, smells a bit like Martinez 2.0.

 

[carlito'sway]

I suppose some people are so sick of the current status quo that they want a radical change. A bit like the voters in the recent Brexit and US presidential elections.

And we all know where that is taking us in the States.

 

[carlito'sway]

I'm coming to the conclusion, Wenger will sign a new deal

None of the names being rumored so far really inspires confidence. My personal choices are definitely out of the running (Emery, Ancelotti and Pep).
Actually, I would be ok with Wenger signing a 1 yr deal and the club hiring a technical Director (Pires would be my choice). His job would be to start preparing the transition in 2018.

 

[Arsenio Venger]

No where near. Eddie Howe achievements and transformation of Bournemouth, Ferguson at both Aberdeen and Man Utd and Brian Clough at Notts Forest ****s on it from a great height off the top of my head. I'd argue Wengers transformation of Arsenal, Klopp titles at Dortmund and Raneris LCFC league win as relegation candidates is better also.

Atleti was a piece of **** before Simeone.

 

[scytheavatar]

None of the names being rumored so far really inspires confidence. My personal choices are definitely out of the running (Emery, Ancelotti and Pep).
Actually, I would be ok with Wenger signing a 1 yr deal and the club hiring a technical Director (Pires would be my choice). His job would be to start preparing the transition in 2018.

What the heck is there to prepare for "the transition in 2018"? What can Wenger do in that one year? Wenger doesn't know how to teach the team to press, doesn't know how to teach his team to beat opponents pressing them, doesn't know how to teach his team to have discipline...... the promising career of players like Ramsey, Chamberlain, Wilshere, Özil, Coquelin have all stalled and gone backwards in recent years. Soon Xhaka and Mustafi could join that list. I have a hard time understanding how that one more year of Wenger can make things better rather than worse.This attitude of being cowards when it comes to life after Wenger is the worst possible option, in life refusing to take risks is frequently the most risky thing one can do.

 

[AshburtonGhost]

Let's see how Howe goes at a club with more resources and higher expectations than Bournemouth. He's not ready for a club of Arsenal's stature.

Whoever comes in is going to have a clean-up job on their hands. The squads a bit of a mishmash, even with Sanchez and Özil (who are likely to leave at the end of the season anyway). I can't understand what Wenger has been trying to build over the past 5 or so years. There doesn't seem to have been any rhyme or reason to player acquisition and we don't even really have an identity in terms of 'style' anymore. I'm all for versatility but We're just kind of an attacking side that doesn't do anything exceptionally well. I do wonder whether a new manager will have trouble trying to cobble together some sort of coherent system with what Wenger has left behind. It will be interesting to watch.

 

[Mitch]

Getting a Championship team promoted to the Prem and battling relegation for 2 seasons ****s on Simeone's achievements? :s Your post reeks of PL bias.

Klopp's performance at Dortmund was similar domestically but he did not have nearly the same consistency in Europe. Beating Bayern (the only real contender tbf) is also inherently less impressive than beating both Real Madrid and Barcelona, both better than Bayern.

Lots of exaggeration going on in this thread. Saying Howe's achievements "****s" on Simeone's is just ridiculous. Howe in general is being hyped up to an extreme level, smells a bit like Martinez 2.0.

Taking over a side in League 2 in the month of January with a 17 point deduction after failing to exit administration and being 10 points from relegation safety in 2009 to getting the team promoted several times and getting them into the PL by 2015 despite being an outside bet for even getting into the playoffs in 2014/15 in process rightly earning himself the football league manager of decade.

That achievement is a greater transition of a club than taking over a team in 2011 that finished 9th in La Liga in the previous season but whom finished 4th the season prior to that. Then turning them into league winners 2014. I don't even know how that's even debatable.

 

[scytheavatar]

The problem with Simeone is that he would be far too drastic a change from Wenger; I do not think we have the players for his passive 4-4-2 counter attacking football which leaves no gaps to work. Heck the current Atletico is already starting to show signs of cracks, I am not sure if he is able to recreate the magic of the 2014 league win again. If he stays any longer in Atletico I suspect his reign there will end up like Klopp's reign in Dortmund.

 

[krackpot]

Pretty much no and no.. what Clough did at Forest, pisses all over that theory

what Wenger did at AFC..but no, you don't want to hear about it

 

[DanDare]

People forget the hegemony is pretty crazy now and self perpetuating. Minnows doing stuff on low budgets now is more impressive than in the past I think.

 

[BobP]

If we 'decline' after Wenger's departure, it won't be because he departed, it'll be because the club have failed in preparing for his departure.

But ultimately, its a tricky situation.

Ideally, for the sake of transition, I'd have proposed bringing in a technical director or director of football to oversee, together with Wenger, our footballing operations, in the hopes that they'd take over after his eventual departure. However, I highly doubt he would have ever accepted any encroachments on his current hegemony, after all, he is always yapping on about his dislike for DoFs. This is ultimately to the clubs detriment, because nobody can simply come in an replace Wenger by taking on all of his responsibilities, especially when they're coming into a club which they're completely unfamiliar with.

 

[Sanchez11]

The has had plenty of time to plan this through, if they havn't then heads should roll!

 

[carlito'sway]

What the heck is there to prepare for "the transition in 2018"? What can Wenger do in that one year? Wenger doesn't know how to teach the team to press, doesn't know how to teach his team to beat opponents pressing them, doesn't know how to teach his team to have discipline...... the promising career of players like Ramsey, Chamberlain, Wilshere, Özil, Coquelin have all stalled and gone backwards in recent years. Soon Xhaka and Mustafi could join that list. I have a hard time understanding how that one more year of Wenger can make things better rather than worse.This attitude of being cowards when it comes to life after Wenger is the worst possible option, in life refusing to take risks is frequently the most risky thing one can do.

Dude, spare us of your moralistic and snotty judgments.
The club in general will need through a transition either Arsène leaves this year or next. He holds control over everything football related at the club and wether you like it or not, his stature at the club is immense and there will be a huge void when he leaves that will be needed to be filled.
One new manager is not going to do so, specially one coming from outside of the club and the league. As I said, I am absolutely fine with him staying with a clear transition plan from the club, starting with hiring a Technical director/director of football.

 

[carlito'sway]

If we 'decline' after Wenger's departure, it won't be because he departed, it'll be because the club have failed in preparing for his departure.

But ultimately, its a tricky situation.

Ideally, for the sake of transition, I'd have proposed bringing in a technical director or director of football to oversee, together with Wenger, our footballing operations, in the hopes that they'd take over after his eventual departure. However, I highly doubt he would have ever accepted any encroachments on his current hegemony, after all, he is always yapping on about his dislike for DoFs. This is ultimately to the clubs detriment, because nobody can simply come in an replace Wenger by taking on all of his responsibilities, especially when they're coming into a club which they're completely unfamiliar with.

Good post! However, I do believe considering the current situation that he would be willing to accept a DOF. Someone that Arsène is comfortable with like a Pires who could come in with fresh ideas, some control over transfers, more hands on approach over the academy, to be a link between the manager and the board and so on. That is a requirement at Arsenal and with or w/out Wenger, that will have to be put in place.