Mesut Özil: Time to Move Ön?

[say yes]

It's been proven that the chances created stat is bullshit though. Özil's creative, but he didn't create 146 chances last season. He made 146 passes that lead to a shot.

Proven?

Chances created is hardly a cast-iron barometer of creativity but it's the same rule for everyone which makes it fairly apt for comparisons.

For all the talk of it being bullshit, there's a reason why pretty much every analytics company makes use of it.

 

[Coolin]

Proven?

Chances created is hardly a cast-iron barometer of creativity but it's the same rule for everyone which makes it fairly apt for comparisons.

For all the talk of it being bullshit, there's a reason why pretty much every analytics company makes use of it.

Lets step away from this and use our own opinions for a second. We both watch football, we both know our stuff, we both know what an actual chance is.

Have you looked through these 146 "chances"? I have. Some of them were passes to Ramsey and Koscielny who then went on to smash the ball from 40 yards.

 

[Furious]

http://www.espnfc.com/german-bundes...packing-helps-us-understand-effective-passing

Interesting new stat analysis that reflects very positivly on Özil and Xhaka.

It's superb and a great illustration why he, by absolute miles, is the best no. 10 in the world. His work between the lines, off the ball movement, and finding space is in it's own league. Obviously most of us who understand football knew this, but it's nice to see some numbers put into it.

 

[say yes]

Lets step away from this and use our own opinions for a second. We both watch football, we both know our stuff, we both know what an actual chance is.

Have you looked through these 146 "chances"? I have. Some of them were passes to Ramsey and Koscielny who then went on to smash the ball from 40 yards.

Yep of course. It's a flaw of the stat however that will be the same for every player- probably more so than for Özil given that Arsenal shoot from outside the box the least in the league.

Chances created is obviously not perfect but it's objective/simple which makes it a pretty useful tool for comparisons. For all the talk of it being rubbish, there's a pretty strong correlation between chances created and assists which I think is telling.

More complex chance creation stats such as ExpG (takes into account shooting position) and Opta's 'Big Chances' (subjective tally of chances a team should score) also tell a pretty similar story with regard to last season fwiw.

 

[krackpot]

http://www.espnfc.com/german-bundes...packing-helps-us-understand-effective-passing

Interesting new stat analysis that reflects very positivly on Özil and Xhaka.

Germans and their damn stats.

They've the reason BMWs are boring as ****

 

[Jury]

Henry created tap-ins. As has already been said, Özil 'created' passes that lead to a shot ... From anywhere.

Last time those two names are on the same page, please. Bannable offense imo.

That Twitter spastic needs his face caved in with a red hot anvil.

 

[MutableEarth]

It's superb and a great illustration why he, by absolute miles, is the best no. 10 in the world. His work between the lines, off the ball movement, and finding space is in it's own league. Obviously most of us who understand football knew this, but it's nice to see some numbers put into it.

Özil will never get the praise he deserves. I've accepted it

 

[blaze_of_glory]

Henry created tap-ins. As has already been said, Özil 'created' passes that lead to a shot ... From anywhere.

Last time those two names are on the same page, please. Bannable offense imo.

That Twitter spastic needs his face caved in with a red hot anvil.

Henry created tap-ins because he was a striker who would run behind the defense and then square it across the 6 yard box after the entire defense had already been beaten. The chance was created before Henry even passed a lot of the time, as he was usually already in a good position taken the shot himself. Not taking anything away from Henry, it was down to his own ability that he was in position to make those passes.

But Özil generally plays guys in from deeper positions than Henry did since he isn't a striker, and so creates more chances overall of various kinds.

They are totally different players, both outstanding at their own game.

To be clear though: I'm not trying to say Özil is as good as Henry. No one will ever be as good as him. He is the GOAT of GOATS.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

I look at Henry and Özil as equals. Such a unique players that have both changed the game for better good!

 

[A_G]

To be clear though: I'm not trying to say Özil is as good as Henry. No one will ever be as good as him. He is the GOAT of GOATS.

What about Giroud?

 

[blaze_of_glory]

What about Giroud?

There is a chance my love for Giroud may be somewhat affectational. My love for Henry is more... pathological.

 

[Batman]

Henry created tap-ins because he was a striker who would run behind the defense and then square it across the 6 yard box after the entire defense had already been beaten. The chance was created before Henry even passed a lot of the time, as he was usually already in a good position taken the shot himself. Not taking anything away from Henry, it was down to his own ability that he was in position to make those passes.

But Özil generally plays guys in from deeper positions than Henry did since he isn't a striker, and so creates more chances overall of various kinds.

They are totally different players, both outstanding at their own game.

To be clear though: I'm not trying to say Özil is as good as Henry. No one will ever be as good as him. He is the GOAT of GOATS.

I mean he's narrowly the greatest Arsenal player ever (just barely above the Dutch God DB10) and a bloody genius but R9 was better. He is the the Dragon that ate all the GOATS.

 

[Jury]

Özil makes more passes more than most, if not all other No. 10's. He probably passes it more than anyone. period. So it stands to reason that a percentage of even the most innocuous of passes he completes could result in a player trying something from nothing. The fact that he passes the ball so much --particularly from deep areas, as @blaze_of_glory pointed out--makes his 'chances created' stat more dubious than others. Rolling the ball to someone from wide areas too, pads that stat out as well.

But then I hate the air he breathes, so it's only natural that I'd pick up on something as outlandish as that.

 

[blaze_of_glory]

I mean he's narrowly the greatest Arsenal player ever (just barely above the Dutch God DB10) and a bloody genius but R9 was better. He is the the Dragon that ate all the GOATS.

You take that back!!

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

Özil makes more passes more than most, if not all other No. 10's. He probably passes it more than anyone. period. So it stands to reason that a percentage of even the most innocuous of passes he completes could result in a player trying something from nothing. The fact that he passes the ball so much --particularly from deep areas, as @blaze_of_glory pointed out--makes his 'chances created' stat more dubious than others. Rolling the ball to someone from wide areas too, pads that stat out as well.

But then I hate the air he breathes, so it's only natural that I'd pick up on something as outlandish as that.

It's clear as day you go an extra mile to find something which qualifies as critiquing Özil. After the season he just had, for you still to make that kind of effort simply means you haven't/cannot warm to him as a player. Even when you praise him it tends to be a back-handed compliment.

I recommend staying out of this thread and investing your efforts elsewhere. I.e- our fight you keep dodging. Things are all agreed on my side Jury Sr. is making negotiations incredibly difficult.

 

[Jury]

I recommend staying out of this thread and investing your efforts elsewhere. I.e- our fight you keep dodging. Things are all agreed on my side Jury Sr. is making negotiations incredibly difficult.

 

[fabo]

It's been proven that the chances created stat is bullshit though. Özil's creative, but he didn't create 146 chances last season. He made 146 passes that lead to a shot.

Unbelievable muck stat tbf. Lad had an average enough season for me regardless, yet again.

People should rewatch Henry's assist video from 03 and see how many were passes to another to tap in from close range. Not forgetting it wasn't his actual job to create.

 

[fabo]

I mean he's narrowly the greatest Arsenal player ever (just barely above the Dutch God DB10) and a bloody genius but R9 was better. He is the the Dragon that ate all the GOATS.

Objectively tbh, Henry was better than Bergkamp. Legends as they are.

Convinced Vieira was Wenger's most important player though.

 

[Tir Na Nog]

I've got an excuse to post this.

 

[MutableEarth]

Objectively tbh, Henry was better than Bergkamp. Legends as they are.

Convinced Vieira was Wenger's most important player though.

Same. Vieira is Wenger's strongest buy, bar none.

RE: The chances created stat - even if you narrow the stats down to chances created in purely goalscoring situations (which can be done and has been), Özil most likely still tops it anyway.