Granit Xhaka: 2019/20 Performances

[Tom349]

You call the person who has a record for most errors leading to goal as our most reliable midfielder.
Covers more distance than any other player? :rofl: Where did that come from? Can you show us the source of your statistics?
His left foot is powerful but it cannot get slower than that. Remind my how many chances he created with it? The guy is not even a quarter of a player Cazorla was.
You make all these ridiculous statements and blame others of having clouded judgement?

The problem is there not ridiculous statements, their facts. You're just too prejudice to see.

Lets see:
Progressive passes; Xhaka 142, Torreira 57
Passes into final third; Xhaka 151, Torreira 41
Passes into penalty area; Xhaka 19, Torreira 3
Tackles won per 90; Xhaka 0.94, Torreira 1.57
Tackle success; Xhaka 41.5%, Torreira 35.3
Interceptions per 90; Xhaka 0.71, Torreira 1.83
Clearances; 3.35, Torreira 1.83
Dispossessed per 90; Xhaka 0.47, Torreira 0.92
Miscontrols per 90; 0.19, Torreira 0.72
Aerial duel %; Xhaka 50.7, Torreira 33.3

For the marginal upgrade that Torreria offers defensively, Xhaka offers a hell of a lot more offensively.

In terms of distance covered see no further:
https://hqreplicakit.org/distance-covered-every-premier-league-clubs-marathon-man/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/granit-xhaka-distance-covered-stats-10986718

Obviously being a midfielder you're more often than not going to cover more distance than most other position. Still Xhaka remains our best runner and can keep it over 90 without needing to be substituted unlike Torreira who drops off significantly over the course of 90 minutes. Last season Torreira averaged 70 minutes played per match compared to Xhakas 87.

This isn't a question about Xhaka being good enough long term, its about upgrading which areas first and right now it makes more sense to find a better alternative to Torreira than it does to Xhaka. Who knows maybe Guendouzi can develop significantly and be the one to dethrone Xhaka but at things stand he is our most reliable option.

 

[RacingPhoton]

The problem is there not ridiculous statements, their facts. You're just too prejudice to see.

Lets see:
Progressive passes; Xhaka 142, Torreira 57
Passes into final third; Xhaka 151, Torreira 41
Passes into penalty area; Xhaka 19, Torreira 3
Tackles won per 90; Xhaka 0.94, Torreira 1.57
Tackle success; Xhaka 41.5%, Torreira 35.3
Interceptions per 90; Xhaka 0.71, Torreira 1.83
Clearances; 3.35, Torreira 1.83
Dispossessed per 90; Xhaka 0.47, Torreira 0.92
Miscontrols per 90; 0.19, Torreira 0.72
Aerial duel %; Xhaka 50.7, Torreira 33.3

For the marginal upgrade that Torreria offers defensively, Xhaka offers a hell of a lot more offensively.

In terms of distance covered see no further:
https://hqreplicakit.org/distance-covered-every-premier-league-clubs-marathon-man/

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/granit-xhaka-distance-covered-stats-10986718

Obviously being a midfielder you're more often than not going to cover more distance than most other position. Still Xhaka remains our best runner and can keep it over 90 without needing to be substituted unlike Torreira who drops off significantly over the course of 90 minutes. Last season Torreira averaged 70 minutes played per match compared to Xhakas 87.

This isn't a question about Xhaka being good enough long term, its about upgrading which areas first and right now it makes more sense to find a better alternative to Torreira than it does to Xhaka. Who knows maybe Guendouzi can develop significantly and be the one to dethrone Xhaka but at things stand he is our most reliable option.

I never said Torreira is the answer to this. I am not sure why we are comparing the too. If we are, all the numbers you have shown except 3 per 90 stats do not show a clear picture.
Number of minutes played by Xhaka is much higher compared to Torreira. So we need to look at number of those passes per 90 minutes rather than overall numbers. Even if we did, those numbers do not give a clearer picture. How many of them were useful for us?
Dispossession stats? In spite of Torreira's higher number of dispossessions, he doesn't have so many errors leading to goal. Why? Because the situations where Torreira gets dispossessed are completely different from situations where Xhaka gets dispossessed.
Tackling stats? You need to add the tackling stats with number of fouls. Xhaka lunges like an idiot. The outcomes are mostly either you win the ball or commit a stupid foul along with a card in some cases. Xhaka playing a little over 2 times the games played by Torreira has committed over 3 times the fouls committed by Torreira and 3 times the cards received by Torreira.
If we look only at this season's stats, Torreira seems to have outperformed Xhaka in almost every statistic that mattered:
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...019-20-stats-to-arsenals-current-midfielders/
I would personally love to see Partey with someone who is dynamic moving forward. Xhaka definitely doesn't fit the bill.

 

[Oxeki]

You can literally minimise these weaknesses by surrounding him with better players and utilising him so that his weaknesses can be exploited less, which is what Arteta has done.

I disagree that he is very slow and would argue he is our fastest midfielder at top flight but he does lack acceleration and agility which makes him look slower than what he is. He has by far the best engine in the team.

Xhaka is a flawed player don't get me wrong but his strengths are far greater than those of who he is competing against for starting spot in midfield. Long term he needs to be upgraded but before we can upgrade him we need to upgrade his midfield partners who may be less flawed but lack any standout traits.

Xhaka's biggest weakness is not his lack of pace. It's his susceptibility to making errors and his inability to take responsibility for them

 

[Oxeki]

Xhaka is in the poll for our thread for Arsenal's best midfielder of the 2010s...how ffs

Sums up this club

 

[Tom349]

I never said Torreira is the answer to this. I am not sure why we are comparing the too. If we are, all the numbers you have shown except 3 per 90 stats do not show a clear picture.
Number of minutes played by Xhaka is much higher compared to Torreira. So we need to look at number of those passes per 90 minutes rather than overall numbers. Even if we did, those numbers do not give a clearer picture. How many of them were useful for us?
Dispossession stats? In spite of Torreira's higher number of dispossessions, he doesn't have so many errors leading to goal. Why? Because the situations where Torreira gets dispossessed are completely different from situations where Xhaka gets dispossessed.
Tackling stats? You need to add the tackling stats with number of fouls. Xhaka lunges like an idiot. The outcomes are mostly either you win the ball or commit a stupid foul along with a card in some cases. Xhaka playing a little over 2 times the games played by Torreira has committed over 3 times the fouls committed by Torreira and 3 times the cards received by Torreira.
If we look only at this season's stats, Torreira seems to have outperformed Xhaka in almost every statistic that mattered:
https://www.planetfootball.com/quic...019-20-stats-to-arsenals-current-midfielders/
I would personally love to see Partey with someone who is dynamic moving forward. Xhaka definitely doesn't fit the bill.

We're comparing the two as they're our only experienced options. Willock and Guendouzi are the alternatives given Cellabos won't be returning next season.

Look at the number per 90 if you want, it won't help your argument.

Funny you mention he has played far more minutes, its almost as if he is far more reliable in terms of being able to get out on the park.

Xhaka's errors leading to goal have far less to do with being disposed or poor passes and mostly relate to giving away penalties which have to be looked at in isolation. It is an issue however.

I won't disagree that Xhaka can and does lunge in like an idiot at times but what he offers to the team is far greater than what Torreira offers in spite of that. I will also defend Xhaka to a certain extent and that is he is one of the few players in the squad who understands the situation to tactically foul an opponent. While the number of cards he has received is hardly outlandish.

Torreira hasn't outperformed Xhaka in anything. You're splitting hairs with basic stats when far more informal stats are available that paint a clearer picture of what players provide to the team. Xhaka may not have contributed to many assist or key passes but he has got the ball down the flanks to the likes of Saka and Tierney who in turn become very dangerous. Torreira spends the majority of the time waiting for someone else to take responsibility.

Partey is a direct replacement for Torreira. The role Torreira plays is the role Partey would be performing albeit to a far greater standard. Again Xhaka needs to be upgraded long term but given where we are at in our rebuild he is not even close to being the first to be replaced. It's only Arsenal fans who have preconceived notions on Xhaka that want him replaced.

 

[RacingPhoton]

We're comparing the two as they're our only experienced options. Willock and Guendouzi are the alternatives given Cellabos won't be returning next season.

Look at the number per 90 if you want, it won't help your argument.

Funny you mention he has played far more minutes, its almost as if he is far more reliable in terms of being able to get out on the park.

Xhaka's errors leading to goal have far less to do with being disposed or poor passes and mostly relate to giving away penalties which have to be looked at in isolation. It is an issue however.

I won't disagree that Xhaka can and does lunge in like an idiot at times but what he offers to the team is far greater than what Torreira offers in spite of that. I will also defend Xhaka to a certain extent and that is he is one of the few players in the squad who understands the situation to tactically foul an opponent. While the number of cards he has received is hardly outlandish.

Torreira hasn't outperformed Xhaka in anything. You're splitting hairs with basic stats when far more informal stats are available that paint a clearer picture of what players provide to the team. Xhaka may not have contributed to many assist or key passes but he has got the ball down the flanks to the likes of Saka and Tierney who in turn become very dangerous. Torreira spends the majority of the time waiting for someone else to take responsibility.

Partey is a direct replacement for Torreira. The role Torreira plays is the role Partey would be performing albeit to a far greater standard. Again Xhaka needs to be upgraded long term but given where we are at in our rebuild he is not even close to being the first to be replaced. It's only Arsenal fans who have preconceived notions on Xhaka that want him replaced.

He has good fitness level. I would not deny that. That doesn't warrant him a place. Premier league's error leading to goal stats do not include penalties. Xhaka was leading in both errors leading to goal and penalties conceded ever since he moved here.
The topic on him getting ball down to the flanks has been discussed to death on this thread. First, those are simple passes which any decent mid-fielder would make. Second, he takes so much time to make that pass. By the time the pass reaches the target, there is no use of that pass because his target is already surrounded by players who would not let him go forward. This is the reason why our attacking play went to **** ever since we started playing Xhaka instead of Cazorla. That split second Xhaka wastes before making a pass makes a huge difference. A midfielder to transfer the ball to attack as quickly as possible. No ifs and buts. Xhaka takes ages to even get the ball under his control.

I just gave you link that confirms key stats on Xhaka, Torreira an Partey last year. These stats are aggregated per 90 minutes and Torreira clearly outperforms Xhaka. I am not a big fan of Torreira either. If possible, we should be selling both and replace them. But on his day, Torreira is far more dynamic and quick than Xhaka can ever be. Torreira is 3 years younger than Xhaka and he is yet to hit peak. As a combination, Torreira's dynamism and Partey's defensive abilities would compliment each other lot more than Xhaka and Partey. Getting Partey would solve our defensive issues. But we will still have problem with transitioning to attack quickly. I would even give Willock(or Ceballos if we are retaining him). We badly need someone who is quick. So Arsenal fans who want Xhaka replaced are having a point and they are not acting based on preconceived notions.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I disagree that he is very slow and would argue he is our fastest midfielder at top flight but he does lack acceleration and agility which makes him look slower than what he is. He has by far the best engine in the team.

Acceleration and agility are more important than sprint speed in football though. He's stiff and immobile that's why he's poor at defending.

Still think he's better than Torreira though, Torreira is pretty pointless and a waste of a transfer.

 

[Tom349]

Acceleration and agility are more important than sprint speed in football though. He's stiff and immobile that's why he's poor at defending.

Still think he's better than Torreira though, Torreira is pretty pointless and a waste of a transfer.

I agree to a certain extent. Obviously for counter attack (both attacking and defending) it is favourable to have a higher top speed but in general play it pays to have good acceleration and agility.

As for Torreira, I think there is a good player in there he just hasn't adapted to the premier league or English culture and has been mucked around a bit by his previous manager who was playing him as a 10 to begin the season. Should still demand a decent transfer fee even if we sell him for less than we brought him for, given other transfer prices will reflect the current market.

 

[BigPoppaPump]

I agree to a certain extent. Obviously for counter attack (both attacking and defending) it is favourable to have a higher top speed but in general play it pays to have good acceleration and agility.

As for Torreira, I think there is a good player in there he just hasn't adapted to the premier league or English culture and has been mucked around a bit by his previous manager who was playing him as a 10 to begin the season. Should still demand a decent transfer fee even if we sell him for less than we brought him for, given other transfer prices will reflect the current market.

I don't even think he was being played as a number 10, he was just poor in the holding role so Emery tried to play him further up and he was even worse.

It seems no one ever wants to blame Torreira for his bad performances, it's like it's everyone's fault but his.

 

[GDeep™]

According to the Athletic, Xhaka and Arteta share a vision for the “6” role.

Sounds crazy to say after his outburst against the fans, but I think he’s one of the most important players for Arteta, just after Auba.

 

[roz]

According to the Athletic, Xhaka and Arteta share a vision for the “6” role.

Sounds crazy to say after his outburst against the fans, but I think he’s one of the most important players for Arteta, just after Auba.

Seems to be for every manager.
They can’t all be wrong surely?

mid table player every time I see him.

 

[Oxeki]

Seems to be for every manager.
They can’t all be wrong surely?

mid table player every time I see him.

We the fans all think he's sh!t, but He's been a regular under four different managers.

Maybe they see something we don't.

The last two managers paid dearly for it after insisting on playing him Everytime. I just hope Arteta knows what he's doing

 

[Tir Na Nog]

According to the Athletic, Xhaka and Arteta share a vision for the “6” role.

Sounds crazy to say after his outburst against the fans, but I think he’s one of the most important players for Arteta, just after Auba.

Arteta was saying as much a while back when he was still trying to convince him to stay. If Arteta wasn't such a big fan Xhaka wouldn't be at the club still, he was pretty much gone. The effort Arteta went in to keeping Xhaka shows just how much he rates him.

People who think Xhaka will soon be a thing of the past will be disappointed I reckon. I'm not sure why tho he's been one of our best players since Arteta took over, an undeniable fact, I don't get why they'd expect Arteta to decide he's no happy with Xhaka when there's been such an upturn in his performances. If we're signing Partey, a big if, he'll be playing alongside Xhaka not instead of him.

 

[dashsnow17]

This guy will end up playing here for like a decade and by the end fans on here will still be debating whether he's good or not, mark my words. Fwiw I still don't know for sure whether he's good or not. Like he is, but also he isn't.

 

[Oxeki]

Arteta was saying as much a while back when he was still trying to convince him to stay. If Arteta wasn't such a big fan Xhaka wouldn't be at the club still, he was pretty much gone. The effort Arteta went in to keeping Xhaka shows just how much he rates him.

People who think Xhaka will soon be a thing of the past will be disappointed I reckon. I'm not sure why tho he's been one of our best players since Arteta took over, an undeniable fact, I don't get why they'd expect Arteta to decide he's no happy with Xhaka when there's been such an upturn in his performances. If we're signing Partey, a big if, he'll be playing alongside Xhaka not instead of him.

I agree he's been playing well since Arteta came. How sure are we that it's not another false dawn?

So, he's player that divides opinion. Some think he's good. Others think he's not good enough to play for Arsenal nevermind to be in the starting XI.

The only hope is that we buy a capable CM that can cover his weakness, but even that might not be enough.

He still has those misplaced passes in him that has the ability to put us under pressure.

Just hope Arteta designs a system that helps us minimize the damage when he finally makes those mistake.


A lot of people make a case for him to start by saying he's our best ball progressor. But most of his passes are sideways. We're only stuck with him because he's the CM in the squad that is capable of playing penetrative forward passes on rare occasion. In an ideal world, I would want him to be upgraded on but there's not enough fund. So the next best thing is buy a CM that will strengthen our midfield to partner him. Most people might not like it but it's the best we can do

 

[roz]

I agree he's been playing well since Arteta came. How sure are we that it's not another false dawn?

So, he's player that divides opinion. Some think he's good. Others think he's not good enough to play for Arsenal nevermind to be in the starting XI.

The only hope is that we buy a capable CM that can cover his weakness, but even that might not be enough.

He still has those misplaced passes in him that has the ability to put us under pressure.

Just hope Arteta designs a system that helps us minimize the damage when he finally makes those mistake.


A lot of people make a case for him to start by saying he's our best ball progressor. But most of his passes are sideways. We're only stuck with him because he's the CM in the squad that is capable of playing penetrative forward passes on rare occasion. In an ideal world, I would want him to be upgraded on but there's not enough. So the next best thing is buy a CM that will strengthen our midfield to partner him. Most people might not like it but it's the best we can do

Absolute myth that he’s been good since ARteta took over. He hasn’t been bad. Theres a difference.

as long as he starts for us expect mid table folks.

 

[hydrofluoric acid]

This guy will end up playing here for like a decade and by the end fans on here will still be debating whether he's good or not, mark my words. Fwiw I still don't know for sure whether he's good or not. Like he is, but also he isn't.

Well said mate!

 

[Camron]

Absolute myth that he’s been good since ARteta took over. He hasn’t been bad. Theres a difference.

as long as he starts for us expect mid table folks.

This exactly. Whenever he manages to string a few games together without putting the ball on a plate for our opponents he is suddenly our best midfielder.

 

[Manberg]

Xhaka's been good since he joined us. I don't quite know what those who think he's a bad or average player see when they watch him.

Does he have weaknesses? Sure, who doesn't. But his strengths outstrip his weaknesses.

 

[Riou]

I don't quite know what those who think he's a bad or average player see when they watch him.

Countless mistakes, lack of on-field leadership/accountability (don't care how popular he is behind scenes, on the pitch he is the one of the first to crumble under pressure really), we signed him as a starter then immediately dropped out of the Champions League after being in it for 20+ years, he has neither extreme technical or physical attributes like past Arsenal midfielders such as Vieira or Fabregas so we always have to carry him in matches (he has no real standout attributes really, bar being the first Arsenal captain to directly tell the fans to **** off so I guess there is that) and his good moments aren't good enough or even in enough volume to way out all the bad he directly causes.

So yeah, I don't get why fans think he has been a poor signing either...