Arsenal vs Udinese | CL P/O 1st leg| Tues 16th Aug - 7:45pm

[outlaw_member]

That comment by AnthonyG was unbelievable. I was laughing for a good 5 minutes as I couldn't believe what I'd just read.

Having finally finished viewing the game, there are some important talking points to discuss. The most obvious one is regarding our possession capabilities. We have routinely averaged between 60-65% over the past year or so, but the loss of Nasri, Fabregas and Clichy will see our average decrease to around 55%. This means that the games we will be involved in will be far more open than we've come to experience over the past couple of years. Those who complained about our tippy tappy controlling strategy have got their wish. This decrease will have ramifications in other aspects of our style and strategy.

More possession turnovers means that we will now have to defend more than we've come to expect. The positive is that the opponent will now be forced to come out more often, thus creating greater opportunities for us to counter-attack. Secondly, the lack of control in possession from us will mean that we will seldom compress in the opponents half with 8 players moving ahead of the ball, thus decreasing our vulnerability on the counter. The downside will be that the opponent will get more chances to attack our back line. Our relative lack of care on the ball will be very frustrating to watch after the near total control that we've experienced with our team.

Furthermore, we will need to become far more decisive in the attack, if we are to perform this way, as we can't allow the game to turn into a russian roulette. There's nothing wrong with being a part of an open game, but you've got to make sure that you've got the bigger gun, and have more ammo to go with it.

Lastly, unless we bring in serious additions, we are not going to finish in the top 4. Udinese controlled the second half at the Emirates, and we were chasing shadows for the most part. This type of game in previous seasons was when we'd turn on the fireworks, record a 5-0 victory and revel in our mesmeric football. There was nothing mesmeric about us yesterday, and that was a near full strength side.

 

[Beksl]

That comment by AnthonyG was unbelievable. I was laughing for a good 5 minutes as I couldn't believe what I'd just read.

Having finally finished viewing the game, there are some important talking points to discuss. The most obvious one is regarding our possession capabilities. We have routinely averaged between 60-65% over the past year or so, but the loss of Nasri, Fabregas and Clichy will see our average decrease to around 55%. This means that the games we will be involved in will be far more open than we've come to experience over the past couple of years. Those who complained about our tippy tappy controlling strategy have got their wish. This decrease will have ramifications in other aspects of our style and strategy.

More possession turnovers means that we will now have to defend more than we've come to expect. The positive is that the opponent will now be forced to come out more often, thus creating greater opportunities for us to counter-attack. Secondly, the lack of control in possession from us will mean that we will seldom compress in the opponents half with 8 players moving ahead of the ball, thus decreasing our vulnerability on the counter. The downside will be that the opponent will get more chances to attack our back line. Our relative lack of care on the ball will be very frustrating to watch after the near total control that we've experienced with our team.

Furthermore, we will need to become far more decisive in the attack, if we are to perform this way, as we can't allow the game to turn into a russian roulette. There's nothing wrong with being a part of an open game, but you've got to make sure that you've got the bigger gun, and have more ammo to go with it.

Lastly, unless we bring in serious additions, we are not going to finish in the top 4. Udinese controlled the second half at the Emirates, and we were chasing shadows for the most part. This type of game in previous seasons was when we'd turn on the fireworks, record a 5-0 victory and revel in our mesmeric football. There was nothing mesmeric about us yesterday, and that was a near full strength side.

Good post Outie but your're a bit off to say this was our full strength side. RVP and Wilshere are two of our most influential players, quality wise and their omission had a big effect IMO. With both of them playing we're going to see a different team, more composed on the ball with bigger goalscoring threat.

 

[General]

Respectfully Ebounolike, you have not been on this forum long enough to make that judgement and this complaint is not based on that post alone so it's not an overreaction. We've been told several times Arsenal Mania is trying to portray a family image so I don’t quite understand why an admin would want to behave this way. AnthonyG started off as an ordinary forum member like you and I and it was good behaviour that got him to a place of authority. This authority mustn’t be abused. I have a sense of humour but I also see a bad trend developing here.

I certainly have been on the forum long enough. I personally think it was a poor joke (i.e. not all that funny), but the person it was directed to (and most others) seem to recognize that it was just that, a joke. Why is that worse than the rest of the dross that gets posted here that we DON'T do anything about?

The real question is, why are you involved with this? It had nothing to do with you.

And you referred it to JC? LOL, sorry, that was funny. That WAS a good joke

I have PMed you so not to ruin the enjoyment for every body. Yeah it's gone to JC. He may just decide to take an impartial approach and address it.

 

[outlaw_member]

Well done, General, and great to have you back. About time someone did something.

 

[TheLoneFalcon]

Is banter only allowed for people with the appropriate rank? Why ***** about it when it's clear the person on the receiving end understands it to be nothing more than that? **** me.

Pathetic whingeing.

 

[General]

Thanks Outie my old mate. On topic - Wenger thrives under uncertainty and this game would not have told him anything he didn't already know. After being condemned to the stands, he may have spotted something that Boro often doesn't, who knows. I know this whole somewhat sad situation is so ready made for him. He would be loving the challenge of getting this team to limp to 4th (again) and he gets to play his favourite 'get out of jail card' of spending less than everyone around him.

 

[arsenallegends]

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/arsenal/82795/champions-league-play-off-arsenal-1-0-udinese-theo-walcott-ftw-photos.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/arsenal/ ... hotos.html</a>

Some nice photos. We will still enjoy moments of possession of this season. I guarantee it.

 

[outlaw_member]

Regarding the players;

Jenkinson should be nowhere near our first team. He's easily the worst technician I've seen in an Arsenal shirt, even though he's got obvious defensive potential. He's a poor man's Sagna, by that I mean, he encompasses the exact same strengths and weaknesses as him, but inferior in every way. A backup should be able to offer some positives, and no matter how one might feel about Eboue, he brought strengths to the table which Sagna didn't, so there was an improvement in some regard when we had to fall back on him. This guy will hurt us.

Ramsey was much better than he's been recently, and the most important change was that he was getting stuck in and making tackles. He was also much better on the ball, and it was a relief to see him perform closer to the level he's reached in the past. However, in 5 minutes he showed why he's not ready to be a first team player. After creating the only goal of the game, he executed a hospital pass which could have seen Udinese score if it weren't for some decisive defensive play from Song and Szczesny.

Frimpong will be an important player this season, if only for the fact that we've got no-one like him. His introduction yesterday was important in bringing some stability back into the midfield. In saying that, he's also very clumsy when he attempts challenges, and we're bound to pay for the number of free kicks he will inevitably give away. One strength of his that seems to have been overlooked is that he is lightning fast.

Gervinho spent most of the game pressing and chasing Udinese players, than he did in possession of the ball, which was a massive shame. We've needed a player like him for years, yet when he finally arrived, the one player that would have formed a great partnership with him has left. Typically, too little, too late from Wenger.

Walcott is a very decisive player, but he can't still be dribbling without the ball. It was cringe worthy seeing him run without the ball, only to check back and retrieve it.

Chamakh is finished. His link up play has gone to pot. I'd even take back Bendtner now. In fact, we should maybe give him a crack at the position one last time before we decide, either way. I can't imagine his RFW experiment did him any favours in breaking into the side.

Given that we are becoming a team looking to attack rapidly, there might be one last chance for a certain Abou Diaby. Yes, he was usually incompetent within a team that was highly adept at controlling the ball, but that's no longer the case. He's one of only two players who was actually a decisive counter-attacker, and if we are to break at speed, he will be very conducive to that. I dare say, he'll be the break through player this season, and the CM position is far more suited to him than any other. Although, I suspect Wenger will continue to play him as a DM where he's just about adequate.

Vermaelen is not a LB. You can tell that he has little understanding of how to play as one in an attacking team. He comes inside and defends like a CB out of position. The fact that Gibbs is already injured is hardly surprising as anyone could have seen that one coming, but I'd prefer Traore over Vermaelen. As for his performance in central defence, well the guy is back to his best, I'd say. Superb defender.

All in all, I am strangely excited at how different our way is becoming, but it's obvious that our quality is very low. Someone said that we've gone from a good team with weak areas, to a weak team with good areas and I think he was absolutely spot on.

 

[fabo]

Jenkinson looked like he was nabbed from the toilets and given a red shirt.

It's gonna be a hard season, serious lack of quality throughout the team right now. Someone said to me last night that the Cesc-era may feel like a golden period compared to what might be coming our way, 'golden period' was probably a bit much but I could see where he was coming from.

 

[celestis]

Good post Outie , I would say we do need 2 quality signings in midfield . Although I don't mind if they come next season . It's time some of the fringe players stepped up instead of letting the stars carry them and that can be seen with Ramsey improving a little with every match , Theo is more active than he was before it seems as well .

Actually the signing we need most with our team like this is a gun centre forward . This team is a bit reminiscent of 05/06.

 

[CandysRoom]

That game last night was the type of game the Arsenal team of 2-3 seasons ago would have thrived upon. Open, attacking play from Udinese every time they got chance. Have we forgotten how to counter attack?

Outlaw mentioned some of us getting our wish at surrendering some possession in order to drag their players out into an open game. I'm one of those who wanted to see this but we must learn to capitalise when breaking from our own defence. Udinese were there for the taking last night and we didn't ever look likely of exploiting all that space.

Don't know what's happened to Chamakh but he's very poor. In Walcott and Gervinho we have two pretty fecking fast wingers yet we can't break on the counter ever. Strange!

Oh, and Rosicky. What a complete waste of a first team slot!

 

[celestis]

Candy you need midfielders who can find the breaking wingers .

 

[DK Gooner]

Jenkinson should be nowhere near our first team. He's easily the worst technician I've seen in an Arsenal shirt, even though he's got obvious defensive potential. He's a poor man's Sagna, by that I mean, he encompasses the exact same strengths and weaknesses as him, but inferior in every way. A backup should be able to offer some positives, and no matter how one might feel about Eboue, he brought strengths to the table which Sagna didn't, so there was an improvement in some regard when we had to fall back on him. This guy will hurt us.

I didn't think Jenkinson was that bad, but disagree about definitely needing different qualities to the main guy. Sagna plays the role with more physical relish and a confidence in his abilities acquired through experience. Jenkinson will never be able to compete with that yet, but does not have the baggage of Eboue who seemed to have lost the trust of his manager and fellow players. Jenkinson's biggest drawback at the moment for me is that his passing is far too conservative even for a defender. It is understandable that he will be amongst the weakest in that department given his prior background, but given time, and I mean a few weeks and not months, he should develop sufficient competency to perform a back-up role.

Ramsey was much better than he's been recently, and the most important change was that he was getting stuck in and making tackles. He was also much better on the ball, and it was a relief to see him perform closer to the level he's reached in the past. However, in 5 minutes he showed why he's not ready to be a first team player. After creating the only goal of the game, he executed a hospital pass which could have seen Udinese score if it weren't for some decisive defensive play from Song and Szczesny.

Agree Ramsey was better last night. I'm in tow minds about him at the moment. He is a very forward thinking player and as such does go for the riskier option more often than not. That leads me to want him playing in the AM role so that there are two players behind to mop up should things go wrong. However, I'm also thinking that by playing him in a deeper role, he will be forced to develop a greater appreciation for possession of the ball. He would be forced to become more aware of the situation around him and adapt his decision-making and improve his execution as a result. It has worked very well with Wilshere so far even though Jack seems naturally better suited for the role than Ramsey. Overall I think Ramsey is worth persevering with in a deeper role.

Gervinho spent most of the game pressing and chasing Udinese players, than he did in possession of the ball, which was a massive shame. We've needed a player like him for years, yet when he finally arrived, the one player that would have formed a great partnership with him has left. Typically, too little, too late from Wenger.

Was not that impressed by Gervinho. He has some of the direct attributes that we are crying out for and his willingness to get in the box ahead of you know who was a big plus. However his decision making and execution is still far too inconsistent for someone who now has to take the mantle of senior WF. He will take time to adapt, but we do not have the luxury of giving him a whole season as we have done with previous acquisitions. He is markedly one-footed and mad no real impression on the game, but for one potential assist to Walcott despite receiving the ball in threatening positions on quite a few occasions.

Walcott is a very decisive player, but he can't still be dribbling without the ball. It was cringe worthy seeing him run without the ball, only to check back and retrieve it.

Like his aggression, but still far form technically proficient enough for the winger we need him to be. Checked back far too much and wasted potential one on one situations from poor execution of runs.

Given that we are becoming a team looking to attack rapidly, there might be one last chance for a certain Abou Diaby. Yes, he was usually incompetent within a team that was highly adept at controlling the ball, but that's no longer the case. He's one of only two players who was actually a decisive counter-attacker, and if we are to break at speed, he will be very conducive to that. I dare say, he'll be the break through player this season, and the CM position is far more suited to him than any other. Although, I suspect Wenger will continue to play him as a DM where he's just about adequate.

Diaby has a spark which when harnessed which makes him virtually unplayable. Likewise his form post injury also makes him unplayable though not in the same sense. I don't think we have room enough for both him and Ramsey in the squad. Diaby offers more offensive potential and a far greater counter-attacking threat than the Welshman, but his injury record and subsequent form means he is just far to unreliable to integrate into the team readily.

 

[outlaw_member]

I'd be surprised if Jenkinson is able to reach an adequate technical so soon. The importance of the fullback has been stated numerous times before, and a top player like Sagna has often been found wanting in this regard. Yet, Sagna is a very technical player and only lacks the ability to carry the ball in order to be very effective going forward. Jenkinson is lacking in almost every technical area. Being adequate going forward is not good enough, especially as it would require the wide forward to drop deeper, and as such, remove them from dangerous positions. If his future lies at CB, then he needs to be moved there now, because as it stands, this guy does not have the tools to play as a FB for us in the immediate future. I'm holding out on the hope that he just lacks confidence, but having seen a couple of his performances for Charlton, he is performing with the ball about as well as I had expected.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Is banter only allowed for people with the appropriate rank? Why ***** about it when it's clear the person on the receiving end understands it to be nothing more than that? **** me.

Pathetic whingeing.

Pretty much. Some people it seems need a "cause" to fight for - even, to be frank, if they need make one up

 

[lee1001]

The thought of Chamakh leading the line when RVP gets injured for a few months is scary. I really hope Campbell isn't the back up plan.

 

[lee1001]

Gervinho lacks composure in his final delivery (Eboue anyone?), but that is expected being new to the team. I think he is probably very nervous/excited too. I expect him to become more calm and assured as the games go by.

 

[outlaw_member]

Is banter only allowed for people with the appropriate rank? Why ***** about it when it's clear the person on the receiving end understands it to be nothing more than that? **** me.

Pathetic whingeing.

Pretty much. Some people it seems need a "cause" to fight for - even, to be frank, if they need make one up

It's pretty obvious that if a Forum Member or below had made that comment, he would have been warned in some shape, or form. I know this for a fact, because I've been on the end of these warnings in the past.

Oh, and it's funny that people felt the need to state that AntG was joking, yet the man himself hasn't claimed anything of the sort. How the **** would they know whether it was a joke, and I bet that AntG would be the first to admit that the comment wasn't said with humorous intentions. Unless, of course, AntG claims it was a joke.

P.S. I have no problem with language like that, but seeing that I was reprimanded on numerous occasions for 'aggressive' language, and demoted for that very reason. it's absolutely ridiculous that the Admin can get away with it on a continual basis. Double standards, as usual.

 

[irishgunnerz]

It depends on the context Outlaw. If it offended the other party or they took exception, then yes such a comment is unwarranted. DJ to his credit laughed it off and didn't see it as a problem (albeit it was an unfunny joke)

If he hasn't an issue then why anyone else? Happy to talk on pm rather than here

 

[TheLoneFalcon]

I enjoy your intelligent posts Outie, but you're wrong on this one. DJ and Ant have been trading humourous 'insults' recently. Nothing in it.