Bernd Leno: Chosen One

[SA Gunner]

Ffs. Arteta was asked about Martinez and he said this:
. It is very difficult to promise players game time or to be the first choice. It is part of this period in the market. We try to manage the situation as well as we can, all the time counting on what the players' expectations are, what we can achieve with them as a club and we are making decisions towards that."

https://www.arsenal.com/news/arteta-Özil-martinez-guendouzi-and-lacazette

And therein lays my question to Arteta. Was it so hard to convince Martinez that he wouldnt be guaranteed the spot but could win it on merit?

Either Arteta didnt believe in Martinez long term or Martinez wanted to be number one, no matter what happens. It surely has to be the former.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

My very next paragraph begins with... "None of that in my opinion". To be clear, that statement is not me guessing, its me reacting to the sentiment both on Arsenal Mania and out there on social media. I dont agree with that thinking and I state my reasons why.

My thoughts are also based on speculation yes, but I back up my thoughts by what I see before me. Better performances, a national call up and a number one jersey at a fellow PL club and a tremendous (I still think low) fee paid. These are tangible points I use to draw my conclusions.

The comment you make about Leno not being displaced doesnt hold water IMO. I, and others here, arent saying Leno was poor, hardly, we are saying that Martinez was better, there is a difference. We cant sit here and say that because Martinez didnt displace Leno, it immediately means Martinez is ****. No, it is possible for Leno to be good, but Martinez is actually better... and we only get to see that when Leno is forced from his position.

When did Martinez displace Leno?

How was he better when he literally had no competition and no pressure? The moment Leno is back fit Martinez wants reassurance.

How can you be reaching when the manager himself... you know what, keep making 2+2=50

 

[drippin]

And therein lays my question to Arteta. Was it so hard to convince Martinez that he wouldnt be guaranteed the spot but could win it on merit?

Either Arteta didnt believe in Martinez long term or Martinez wanted to be number one, no matter what happens. It surely has to be the former.

Well it was that hard because Martinez was sold, when Arteta said he was even better than Leno by the adjectives he used on both.

So you questions Arteta's competence. That's fine.

I trust he tried his all to keep a great HG goalkeeper who has served the club for a long time.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

And therein lays my question to Arteta. Was it so hard to convince Martinez that he wouldnt be guaranteed the spot but could win it on merit?

Either Arteta didnt believe in Martinez long term or Martinez wanted to be number one, no matter what happens. It surely has to be the former.

Wouldn't the GOAT know that he will, like any other player in the team, get involved on merit? Hasn't that been the case since Arteta joined?

 

[SA Gunner]

He was competing with an injured player, its pretty easy to look good when comparing yourself to thin air.

They are not excuses, those are actual valid points. There being crowds behind the GK actually adds a lot of pressure to their performance. Him having a purple patch is exactly what you described in your previous post. The guy has been here for almost a decade and he has a few good months and he is apparently GOAT?

Which injured player? Leno?

And where do you get this extra analysis from, crowds, pressure, purple patches, etc? Its as though you are convinced that factors are more important to what's actually happening on the field of play.

Martinez came in and delivered excellent performances against Wolves, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool again, in addition to the other games he played. Rarely put a foot wrong and showed superb attributes on the field of play. Furthermore, he secured a national call up, secured a move to be number 1 at a fellow PL club, and went for an excellent fee.

How is this on field evidence inferior to points like crowd pressure, claims of temporary purple patches, Leno being injured (goodness me) and other interesting excuses made?

 

[Macho]

My thoughts are also based on speculation yes, but I back up my thoughts by what I see before me. Better performances, a national call up and a number one jersey at a fellow PL club and a tremendous (I still think low) fee paid. These are tangible points I use to draw my conclusions.

Well, whilst you do that - I will continue to use facts and quotes confirmed by both parties.

You can't accuse people on fanboying and making agendas and do this sh*t the proof has literally been planted in your face.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

Which injured player? Leno?

And where do you get this extra analysis from, crowds, pressure, purple patches, etc? Its as though you are convinced that factors are more important to what's actually happening on the field of play.

Martinez came in and delivered excellent performances against Wolves, Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool again, in addition to the other games he played. Rarely put a foot wrong and showed superb attributes on the field of play.

How is this on field evidence inferior to points like crowd pressure, claims of temporary purple patches, Leno being injured (goodness me) and other interesting excuses made?

You disregard the managers comments in favour of your own speculation.

You wan't me to come out with an analysis of why those factors play a huge part in the game but you'll happily move the goal post. Nah mate.

What Arteta said, the way the whole situation played out, Martinez history at the club and Lenos performances until getting injured trump whatever speculation and echo chamber you are part of.

 

[SA Gunner]

When did Martinez displace Leno?

How was he better when he literally had no competition and no pressure? The moment Leno is back fit Martinez wants reassurance.

How can you be reaching when the manager himself... you know what, keep making 2+2=50

Are we missing something here. Why does it matter that Martinez had to displace Leno for Martinez to be a quality keeper?

Can you not understand that Leno can be a good keeper, and Martinez can be a better keeper at the same time?

If you dont get what Im saying, ask yourself this... how often do you see keepers changing? Especially when the starting keeper is doing a good enough job?

Dont try and belittle Martinez's contribution because Leno got injured. Go back, look at what Emi has done and rate that, end of story.

 

[Mo Britain]

https://www.clarin.com/deportes/emiliano-martinez-aston-villa-arsenal_0_PxcIIQ05A.html

Try this. For those with problems in reading Spanish, Martinez confirms he would have preferred to stay but was told he would be on the bench for the start of the season.

 

[SA Gunner]

You disregard the managers comments in favour of your own speculation.

You wan't me to come out with an analysis of why those factors play a huge part in the game but you'll happily move the goal post. Nah mate.

What Arteta said, the way the whole situation played out, Martinez history at the club and Lenos performances until getting injured trump whatever speculation and echo chamber you are part of.

Moving what goal post?

My analysis is simple... Martinez was better than Leno during those ten games. No moved goal posts, no bias... just clear analysis of his performances for us. And Ill state my metrics again...

Better aerial handling, better distribution, better communication, better levels of composure, better overall command of the box, equivalent agility.

There is no favouritism here my guy, I saw what I saw and I am now making my call.

This is not to say Leno cannot improve, of course he can. But the winner for me right now is Emi.

If its any consolation, then take comfort in the fact that Arteta doesnt agree with me. That should be the ultimate decider because he sees what we dont see... and I bet its got nothing to do with "crowd pressure".

 

[El Granit-Coq]

Are we missing something here. Why does it matter that Martinez had to displace Leno for Martinez to be a quality keeper?

Can you not understand that Leno can be a good keeper, and Martinez can be a better keeper at the same time?

If you dont get what Im saying, ask yourself this... how often do you see keepers changing? Especially when the starting keeper is doing a good enough job?

Dont try and belittle Martinez's contribution because Leno got injured. Go back, look at what Emi has done and rate that, end of story.

"With Bernd Leno being taken off injured during the first half of Arsenal's defeat to Brighton on 20 June 2020, Martínez came off the bench to make his first Premier League appearance since the 2016–17 season.[29]"

2~3 months of good performance over a decade is a purple patch.

Saying Martinez is better than Leno is absurd. Saying he had good performances when called upon makes a lot more sense.

 

[drippin]

Can you guys first focus on the proof and keep this Martinez vs Leno a separate issue.

Things are getting confused and soon I have to make the copy-paste comment I will put every time people forget what the proof on the matter is. So the gossip doesn't hurt the club.

No way Arteta (or anyone who is sane) wanted to sell a HG goalkeeper who is good on the ball too, only to spend much of the money on a replacement.

Martinez had only 2 years in contract also, so needed renewal.

 

[Tourbillion]

Wish we kept Martinez.

 

[SA Gunner]

"With Bernd Leno being taken off injured during the first half of Arsenal's defeat to Brighton on 20 June 2020, Martínez came off the bench to make his first Premier League appearance since the 2016–17 season.[29]"

2~3 months of good performance over a decade is a purple patch.

Saying Martinez is better than Leno is absurd. Saying he had good performances when called upon makes a lot more sense.

I think I've made my point guy, you can read on it in my previous responses to you. Clearly you do not want to understand it.

 

[Mo Britain]

https://balonlatino.net/una-mano-de-emiliano-martinez-para-independiente/

Or this one. He would "return to the subs bench" when Leno was fit.

 

[Macho]

No way Arteta (or anyone who is sane) wanted to sell a HG goalkeeper who is good on the ball too, only to spend much of the money on a replacement.

Martinez had only 2 years in contract also, so needed renewal.

This is it really, fanatics are turning it into something else. As usual.

 

[El Granit-Coq]

I think I've made my point guy, you can read on it in my previous responses to you. Clearly you do not want to understand it.

Watched closely by Lionel Scaloni for the Argentine National Team , he knows that at 27 he needs competition, and with the recovery of Bernd Leno, he would return to the substitute bench. That is why he made the decision to leave the club, which between assignments, was for 11 years to fight for a place in the 'Albiceleste'.

Martinez himself disagrees with you. But sure, keep your opinion in the face of reality.

 

[SA Gunner]

Watched closely by Lionel Scaloni for the Argentine National Team , he knows that at 27 he needs competition, and with the recovery of Bernd Leno, he would return to the substitute bench. That is why he made the decision to leave the club, which between assignments, was for 11 years to fight for a place in the 'Albiceleste'.

Martinez himself disagrees with you. But sure, keep your opinion in the face of reality.

My opinion is based on what happened on the field of play, it was, simply put, superior goalkeeping.

 

[drippin]

Arteta is not stupid enough to sell a HG-goalkeeper, who is good with his feet, in this expensive GK market unless absolutely forced to make that decision. Or does someone think so?

"on what convinced him that Bernd was the long-term option...
I was very clear with both of them that it wasn't a #1 and a #2 and that they had to compete for the place like any other position in the team. To be fair, Bernd was superb before he got injured at Brighton and Emi was absolutely excellent with all of the games that he played and how much he helped us as well with winning the trophies. But at the end of the day, that created a big competition, some big expectations from both of them and we had to deal with that. We were really open, trying to have those discussions and at the end, Emi had a really good offer, really well-suited to what he wants to achieve long-term and short-term and we allowed him to leave the club."

https://www.arsenal.com/news/arteta-west-ham-willian-signings-transcript

 

[Furious]

"on what convinced him that Bernd was the long-term option...
I was very clear with both of them that it wasn't a #1 and a #2 and that they had to compete for the place like any other position in the team. To be fair, Bernd was superb before he got injured at Brighton and Emi was absolutely excellent with all of the games that he played and how much he helped us as well with winning the trophies. But at the end of the day, that created a big competition, some big expectations from both of them and we had to deal with that. We were really open, trying to have those discussions and at the end, Emi had a really good offer, really well-suited to what he wants to achieve long-term and short-term and we allowed him to leave the club."

https://www.arsenal.com/news/arteta-west-ham-willian-signings-transcript

Proves nothing.

Emi was going to be benched for the 1st game, which is what most on here have a problem with. He performed better than Leno and thus deserved to continue playing.