ibby
Established Member
Qs, go back a few pages.
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Birmingham v Arsenal 12.45pm Saturday 23rd February 2008
- Thread starter RocktheCasbah
- Start date
- Replies 993
- Views 59,033
I won't go on about my opinions on our performance today - suffice to say that I can understand our 1st half performance based upon our reaction to Eduardo's injury - the boys just didn't seem to get it out of their heads at all.
As for the 2nd half I think Johnathan Chong's open letter on the home page pretty well sums up our performance, or at least the performances of our key players.
As for the 2nd half I think Johnathan Chong's open letter on the home page pretty well sums up our performance, or at least the performances of our key players.
famous no 10
Established Member
marco said:
Not really, was it?
I mean, yeah our heads were all ****ed up by the injury...but against a 10 men, crap 'brum side?
We were good for most of it, but Bendtner wasn't great, Ade was worse....wasteful, and greedy....clichy's mistake was just piss poor, and all in all, didn't finish them off like a team at the top of the table should....and really, if we can't finish our chance, we're not playing well.
**** it though, I'm more pissed off about our Edu.
awooga83
Established Member
If you do what he did and risk doing that to someones leg you have to face the consequences.
You say you can't stop it well then you punish the offenders as severely as you can to try to address the imbalance of justice.
You say you can't stop it well then you punish the offenders as severely as you can to try to address the imbalance of justice.
ibby
Established Member
awooga83 said:
What is "as severely as you can?" Until Eduardo comes back from injury (Which could be never)? Which is extremely unfair.
awooga83
Established Member
Well what happened to Eduardo was unfair, its merely a balancing of those situations.
I think its unfair for a player who has done that to get such a minimal punishment considering the severity of his actions and the possible implications for Eduardo.
I think its unfair for a player who has done that to get such a minimal punishment considering the severity of his actions and the possible implications for Eduardo.
ibby
Established Member
awooga83 said:
I might sound like a complete tit here but **** happens.
Have you watched Shawshank Redemption? The role Morgan Freeman plays, Red, killed someone, according to you, inorder for it to balance it out, Red should have been killed.
This is a bit like that (not really is it?) but clearly you can see where I am coming from? Especially seeing he didn't do it intentionally.
AnthonyG
Arse Emeritus
Only if the punishment proposed would be for someone to break Taylor's leg, which it is not.ibby said:
awooga83
Established Member
But people can be punsihed severly for crimes they didn't intedn to do thats part of life.
The point of red cards is to balance things up to address the wrong someone has done and in this case he has done a major wrong pratically the worse thing you can do in football.
The type of challenge he made is high risk he knows that by continuing to do it he took the risk of seriously hurting Eduardo but neglected that risk. When he ends up doing what he did as a result he has to face the music ordinarily he might have got 'lucky' and only been sent off but if you make contact like he did then you should recieve a more severe punishment because it is not an equivalent offence, the damage he has done is far worse and he must pay for it whether or not he directly intended to or not and lets not be naive anyone in football knows the type of challenge he made can result in broken legs so he can't sit there an say I had no idea that would happen.
The point of red cards is to balance things up to address the wrong someone has done and in this case he has done a major wrong pratically the worse thing you can do in football.
The type of challenge he made is high risk he knows that by continuing to do it he took the risk of seriously hurting Eduardo but neglected that risk. When he ends up doing what he did as a result he has to face the music ordinarily he might have got 'lucky' and only been sent off but if you make contact like he did then you should recieve a more severe punishment because it is not an equivalent offence, the damage he has done is far worse and he must pay for it whether or not he directly intended to or not and lets not be naive anyone in football knows the type of challenge he made can result in broken legs so he can't sit there an say I had no idea that would happen.
I don't want to get too much into this debate re the injury & suitable punishment, but I will say that I can't agree with you regarding 'intent' Ibby.
Intent is a bit of a smoke screen - in this instance if he intended to cause injury he should be charged with a criminal offence (let alone civil), as that amounts to an 'assault with intent to injure' - the fact that it took place during a contact sport is another smoke screen, especially as going over the ball is deemed illegal.
Furthermore the Law also recognises 'reckless', 'careless' or 'dangerous' behavior, where the individual's actions may not have been deliberate in their 'intent' to cause the consequences of their actions (i.e. he did not mean to break his leg), but that he knew that an injury or such was a likely consequence of his actions.
To put it a different way - intent = murder charge, whereas without it = manslaughter. But I do agree that this sort of incident / tackle is far too tolerated in sport, and that as in Law 'ignorance is no excuse'.
I applaud the ref for taking such direct & immediate action.
Intent is a bit of a smoke screen - in this instance if he intended to cause injury he should be charged with a criminal offence (let alone civil), as that amounts to an 'assault with intent to injure' - the fact that it took place during a contact sport is another smoke screen, especially as going over the ball is deemed illegal.
Furthermore the Law also recognises 'reckless', 'careless' or 'dangerous' behavior, where the individual's actions may not have been deliberate in their 'intent' to cause the consequences of their actions (i.e. he did not mean to break his leg), but that he knew that an injury or such was a likely consequence of his actions.
To put it a different way - intent = murder charge, whereas without it = manslaughter. But I do agree that this sort of incident / tackle is far too tolerated in sport, and that as in Law 'ignorance is no excuse'.
I applaud the ref for taking such direct & immediate action.
giuliob
Well-Known Member
@awooga
All your posts regarding the injury, what constitutes intentional injury, etc. are really well articulated....Nice job.....
All your posts regarding the injury, what constitutes intentional injury, etc. are really well articulated....Nice job.....
scruzgooner
Well-Known Member
k80, your post is dead on. there should be no "studs up mother brown" in english football, and players who do injure others from reckless challenges like taylor's should be banned for the length of the injured's absence. if it ends their career they should be forced to pay restitution from wages as long as they're in fa-sanctioned english football, as well as suffer a year's ban.kamikaze80 said:
otherwise the gits will keep playing this way; it's all they can do against superior skill ("he was too fast for me", makes me sick).
however, let's focus on the positive. send him a note, sing his name, wear his shirt...if you pray, pray for him and his family.
get well soon edu!
thegame24
Established Member
sick day.
absolutly disgusting challenge and that was never a penalty.
like last season, we lose all our trophies in one week.
absolutly disgusting challenge and that was never a penalty.
like last season, we lose all our trophies in one week.
kamikaze80
Established Member
i dont think its lost yet. we're still 3 pts ahead and i think our boys will continue to surprise everyone with their mental strength. getting rosicky and van persie fit and playing would be a great start.
arsenalfc0719
Established Member
Not a good day at all.
Although I'm more concerned, as probably is all our team, fans, coaches and staff about Eduardo then the game itself.
It was a disappointing result and we really should have won the game.
Were still upfront by 3 points though and I'm sure we can keep it that way.
Although I'm more concerned, as probably is all our team, fans, coaches and staff about Eduardo then the game itself.
It was a disappointing result and we really should have won the game.
Were still upfront by 3 points though and I'm sure we can keep it that way.
CrazyInLoveWithArsenal
Well-Known Member
I ****ing hope Taylor rots in hell! ****ing bastard..
I just pray Eduardo will get better soon, I for one am confident we will see him in an Arsenal shirt again.
I just pray Eduardo will get better soon, I for one am confident we will see him in an Arsenal shirt again.
Ooh to be a gooner
Active Member
Alliadiere got a red card for slapping Mascherano today, and it would be the most perverse kind of justice if Taylor received the same punishment for that brutal and abhorrent challenge on Eduardo. Now I'm not necessarily of the opinion that it was intentional, but I am certain that it was horrendously reckless.
The media in the UK have attempted to appear "measured" iin their response, and whilst obviously disturbed by the event, have refrained from calling for any additional punishment to be meted out to Taylor. In fact some commentators have even tried to almost portray Taylor as the victim who is deeply overwhelmed with grief at having subjected a fellow pro footballer to a potentially career threatening injury.
Now please imagine a scenario where England are in the semi finals of the world cup (I know that this will require an extraordinary leap of imagination, but please try) and Wayne Rooney has almost single handedly got them there, and they face Germany in the semi's, and he is scythed down by a similar challenge to what Eduardo faced today with the same horrific outcome. I doubt whether the media would have the same detached and reasoned response as they did today if that happened! Let's be honest, they would be virtually calling for the players head on a platter!
Maybe it will require a player of the stature of a Rooney, Henry, Ronaldo, Zidane etc to be cut down in there prime before something is done.
What happened today is totaly unacceptable, and the game would only benefit if this type of challenge was outlawed. This would enable the more skillful, and technically gifted players to flourish, which is surely what football lovers want to see.
It wouldn't be the first time a law protecting players has been introduced, after all there was a time when you could barge a goalkeeper even when he had both hands on the ball, and the game certainly wasn't affected detrimentally as a result of that change. And even more recently the tackle from behind has largely been eradicated, and good riddance to it!
I really hope something good comes out of Eduardo's personal tragedy
The media in the UK have attempted to appear "measured" iin their response, and whilst obviously disturbed by the event, have refrained from calling for any additional punishment to be meted out to Taylor. In fact some commentators have even tried to almost portray Taylor as the victim who is deeply overwhelmed with grief at having subjected a fellow pro footballer to a potentially career threatening injury.
Now please imagine a scenario where England are in the semi finals of the world cup (I know that this will require an extraordinary leap of imagination, but please try) and Wayne Rooney has almost single handedly got them there, and they face Germany in the semi's, and he is scythed down by a similar challenge to what Eduardo faced today with the same horrific outcome. I doubt whether the media would have the same detached and reasoned response as they did today if that happened! Let's be honest, they would be virtually calling for the players head on a platter!
Maybe it will require a player of the stature of a Rooney, Henry, Ronaldo, Zidane etc to be cut down in there prime before something is done.
What happened today is totaly unacceptable, and the game would only benefit if this type of challenge was outlawed. This would enable the more skillful, and technically gifted players to flourish, which is surely what football lovers want to see.
It wouldn't be the first time a law protecting players has been introduced, after all there was a time when you could barge a goalkeeper even when he had both hands on the ball, and the game certainly wasn't affected detrimentally as a result of that change. And even more recently the tackle from behind has largely been eradicated, and good riddance to it!
I really hope something good comes out of Eduardo's personal tragedy
vin de guerre
Well-Known Member
In a rather perverse way I do hope AW takes the opportunity to motivate our squad to change their mind frame. We now need to show that every game is our final game and in honour to Eduardo we dont drop a point nor lose a CL game.
We doubly need the siverware back home at the end of the season. I just remember after we won the EPL and crocked Pires came on to an almighty ovation from fans and players! I hope we can do the same for Eduardo.
We doubly need the siverware back home at the end of the season. I just remember after we won the EPL and crocked Pires came on to an almighty ovation from fans and players! I hope we can do the same for Eduardo.
CrazyInLoveWithArsenal
Well-Known Member
Now we know why footballers are payed so much, in an instant their career could end though I have hope that we will see Eduardo play again
Player:Tomiyasu
anyway, there was alot of fair points motd rightly pointed out for this match.
ade should have been given a penalty for shirt tugging.
clichy should not be crucifield of his error, he did make a mistake but he redeemed himself as he made a legitimate tackle, which the ref blundered and gave a stupid penalty. wtf
ade should have been given a penalty for shirt tugging.
clichy should not be crucifield of his error, he did make a mistake but he redeemed himself as he made a legitimate tackle, which the ref blundered and gave a stupid penalty. wtf
