CL: Arsenal vs Porto | 30/09/08

[tam1886]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

For me, showboating like that is unnecessary, and in my opinion can be classless at times. I recognise it's down to individual preference, but I don't like tricks done for show or to mock opponents. Using a trick to beat the man is all very well and good, but I don't like players humiliating opponents for the sake of it, which I thought Eboue was trying to do tonight and Ronaldo/Nani done to us before.

The other thing that gets on my nerves about Eboue doing it is the arrogance, which General mentioned earlier. He come on, done nothing to warrant him showing off, and tried to act all flash. Considering the result at the weekend I thought it was well out of order. It's that type of over-confidence and arrogance that pisses me off. If Walcott had done it I still wouldn't have been happy but at least after having a good game he'd have earned the right to show off a bit. Eboue had no reason at all.

 

[qs]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

I don't think trying a step over or 2 is mocking the opposition. I think the fact Eboue did it is leading to people to claim it is out of their own personal dislike for him. van Persie does way more fancy trickery and he's applauded for it, and rightly so. I just think Eboue tried it to see how it went, see if he could add another something something to his game.

I suppose its down to interpretation but we'll see the next time Robin, Samir or anyone else does a step over or 2 how people react. Jesus Henry used to ritually humiliate defenders week in week out and I ****ing loved it.

 

[tam1886]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

It's not out of dislike for him that I think that. Maybe he wasn't deliberately doing it to humiliate the defender, but I don't really remember him trying out tricks and flicks in other games apart from the odd backheel now and then. All the fancy stuff is part of Van Persie's game though, he uses it to effect. I just didn't think Eboue was doing that really, like I said, maybe I'm wrong in which case I'd apologise, I'll have to see it again.

With the Henry thing, it was very rarely standing in front of someone taking the piss like Ronaldo does, for no other reason than to take the piss. He was just that good he'd make them look bad. Ronaldo can do that too, but then he goes back and takes the piss as well. I just don't like that, there's no class in it. Henry had his moments, but not to the extent I'm thinking about.

 

[McIntyre]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Sorry to butt in on the conversation, but for me I think the way a step-over is interpreted depends on the situation. At 0-0 a few step-overs from any player would probably be seen as part of the game, maybe a bit of arrogance on that player's part alone. At 4-0 and when the opposition team really is under the cosh, the only way it is going to be interpreted (rightly or wrongly) is that the player is trying to take the p*ss, regardless of who does it.

Tonight, Nasri skilled up a couple of players and nutmegged one of them, but it was to get out of a tight situation so I cheered. van Persie, Denilson and others tried fancy flicks at different points and I wasn't too happy, because unless they serve some purpose they seem unecessary, can seem arrogant and can even inspire or rile the opposition.

And this is what it comes down to. Perception. You mentioned Eboue might just have wanted to try out a few moves, and that at 4-0 up it seemed the perfect time. But whether he really was just trying it out or not, it SEEMS to the opposition like a p*ss take and could easily lead to retaliation or someone taking out their frustration on one of our players.

I just think players need to be mindful of how our entertainment as the winning team is just compounding the misery of the opposition and their fans. Eboue's step-overs weren't on a par with Nani messing around whilst we were dumped out of the Cup or Ronaldo's antagonism while our title chances disappeared, but they do undermine our outrage at such actions when we're the ones being humiliated.

We humbled Porto enough by completely outplaying them and putting four goals past them. There's no need to compound their misery and show ourselves up by trying to humiliate them, regardless of who's doing it.

 

[Gazza Martinez]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Thats what I like about Nasri. He never overdoes flicks and tricks, but he can execute them efficiently and with intelligence. Another trait which is makes him similar to Zizou.

 

[arsenalfc0719]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

I don't think Nasri is like Zidane at all. I hardly see any similarities.

Anyways, good game today. Its important that we won the way we did because that it will give our players back the confidence they lost after the match against Hull.

When we are given space, like we were given today, we play well, when we aren't given space, we struggle.

 

[qs]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Sorry to butt in on the conversation, but for me I think the way a step-over is interpreted depends on the situation. At 0-0 a few step-overs from any player would probably be seen as part of the game, maybe a bit of arrogance on that player's part alone. At 4-0 and when the opposition team really is under the cosh, the only way it is going to be interpreted (rightly or wrongly) is that the player is trying to take the p*ss, regardless of who does it.

Tonight, Nasri skilled up a couple of players and nutmegged one of them, but it was to get out of a tight situation so I cheered. van Persie, Denilson and others tried fancy flicks at different points and I wasn't too happy, because unless they serve some purpose they seem unecessary, can seem arrogant and can even inspire or rile the opposition.

And this is what it comes down to. Perception. You mentioned Eboue might just have wanted to try out a few moves, and that at 4-0 up it seemed the perfect time. But whether he really was just trying it out or not, it SEEMS to the opposition like a p*ss take and could easily lead to retaliation or someone taking out their frustration on one of our players.

I just think players need to be mindful of how our entertainment as the winning team is just compounding the misery of the opposition and their fans. Eboue's step-overs weren't on a par with Nani messing around whilst we were dumped out of the Cup or Ronaldo's antagonism while our title chances disappeared, but they do undermine our outrage at such actions when we're the ones being humiliated.

We humbled Porto enough by completely outplaying them and putting four goals past them. There's no need to compound their misery and show ourselves up by trying to humiliate them, regardless of who's doing it.

I'll have to be honest I really don't give a **** about hurting the oppositions feelings.

 

[SimplyFabregas]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

I wouldnt have minded the Eboue step-overs had he not given the ball away doing it.

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

"The most important thing was to respond quickly in a convincing way to the game against Hull and that's what we did," he said.

"We were focused and I was happy with the attitude. Maybe we were too tense at the start of the game but we were focused and at this level that is vital.

"It's difficult to measure our best performance of the season but this was maybe our most complete performance.

"This is half the response I want. The other half comes on Saturday against Sunderland. I expect to win the group after this."

Arsenal top Group G following last night's comfortable win and Wenger was delighted with the overall contribution of Cesc Fabregas and the display of Theo Walcott who made a number of mazy runs after the break.

"I thought Fabregas was outstanding. He was good offensively and defensively. It was a complete performance," Wenger said.

"Theo was dangerous again and is always improving."

Despite warning of making wholesale changes in the aftermath of the humiliating loss to Hull, Wenger only made one change for Porto's visit and was not made to rue his decision.

"I was tempted to make more than one change but I didn't want to give the feeling that I was punishing one player more than another," he said.

"I wanted to give the team the chance to respond quickly. The change was not to punish anyone, it was because we needed to respond quickly as a team."

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leagues/premierleague/arsenal/3113695/Arsène-Wenger-expects-Arsenal-to-top-Champions-League-group-after-routing-Porto-Football.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/leag ... tball.html</a>

 

[banduan]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Thats what I like about Nasri. He never overdoes flicks and tricks, but he can execute them efficiently and with intelligence. Another trait which is makes him similar to Zizou.

Absolutely (except the Zizou part).

I love the way Nasri refuses to do flashy stuff unless necessary. Cesc and RVP doing flicks and tricks when we were reeling from their counterattacks was distressing. Why Eboue alone should be picked on for all that nonsense I do not know. I guess because he screwed it up so bad (though RVP had done the same in the first half).

 

[GoonerGurjit]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Porto coach Jesualdo Ferreira paid tribute to Arsenal tonight, insisting: "Most teams have trouble playing them."

The Gunners crushed Porto 4-0 in their Champions League clash at the Emirates Stadium and, although Ferreira felt the match would have taken a different course had his side capitalised on a couple of early chances, he acknowledged Arsenal's strengths.

"When Arsenal had scored their first goal we'd already had two chances that we didn't make the most of," he said.

"We looked more dangerous than them early on. We did the best we could. We're still second in the group.

"Arsenal are a great team. They play a short game with a lot of combinations and they do it everywhere, in the league or Champions League, and against any opponents.

"Most teams have trouble playing at Arsenal - and that's what we faced too."

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/Porto-coach-Most-team-have.4544242.jp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport ... 4544242.jp</a>

Gallas video interview:
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0,23791,14968_4227573,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.skysports.com/video/clips/0, ... 73,00.html</a>

 

[asajoseph]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

The run was great, but where the hell was his right foot?

He really should have hit that.

Otherwise, I thought Vela was decent, but not entirely spectacular tonight - on the merit of today's performance from both, I wouldn't be replacing Van Persie with him just yet.

why not? simply because of the goals rvp scored? if so, vela should have kept his place in the team after the cup match.

or is the bar simply set higher for vela than rvp? the latter is automaticallt prefered?

Because despite all the feverish discrediting of our 1st teamers, and the insane over-hyping of our Carling Cup victory, I don't think Van Persie's been playing that badly, and he's scored 5 fairly important goals for us so far this season, compared to Vela showing only flashes so far.

Vela's young and new to the league - when he starts making an impact as a sub in meaningful games, I think we'll be ready to start talking about him remplaing players who're making an impact from the start.

Or is the bar simply set lower for vela than everyone else?

 

[dutchMasta]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Nasri's ball retention skills are pretty damn good too. Really happy with him so far. Does a lot of small little touches, always in control of the ball. Uses his body well too, very efficient player. But to be honest, I much prefer watching these types of players than the flashy types.

If he could work on some extra speed, he could really burst down those wings, leaving players in the dust, bit like Messi. But either way, he's adapting a lot quicker than I expected, and I love it.

Vela also impressed me loads, and I think he deserves a good 30 mins per game as sub at least for now. CC or some FA cup, him and Bendtner (who also deserves some good game time) will wreak havoc. We've got a pretty crazy striker situation on our hands. Keep on expecting to hear complaints of not enough game time, but all I hear are how they must keep working hard to break into the 1st team, and that you'll see loads more from them, exactly the right attitude, and it's working for them.

 

[Feet]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

RvPs first goal was the goal of the game. Lovely through pass by Cesc to a perfectly timed run behind the defence (for once) by Ade, and then RvP showed real acceleration and desire to get to the front stick and poke it in with some force, beating the defender.

People need to calm down about Eboue though. I think people really misunderstand his attitude. Ok yes it was slightly unprofessional, but it was also absolutely ****ing hilarious and I think he was genuinely trying to entertain the crowd who had gone practically silent by that point, rather than he was trying to time-waste or disrespect Porto.

The atmosphere at the Emirates was very good until 80 minutes when it went completely silent and really started to empty out which I thought was a damned shame, I really don't think you get that situation in any other stadium in the country even when teams are winning by a large margin. Unfortunately I've not managed to get to the Emirates yet, but are the transport links so bad that people have to leave early or is it just that most ticket holders aren't actually proper fans?

One thing yesterday evening has proved to me is how Wenger is so completely different style of management and in particular man management. It seems he challenged the players and they responded to him, even though he only made one change. It's actually an interesting subject, so I might make a thread about it later, see what people think about the way he motivates.

 

[asajoseph]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Sorry to butt in on the conversation, but for me I think the way a step-over is interpreted depends on the situation. At 0-0 a few step-overs from any player would probably be seen as part of the game, maybe a bit of arrogance on that player's part alone. At 4-0 and when the opposition team really is under the cosh, the only way it is going to be interpreted (rightly or wrongly) is that the player is trying to take the p*ss, regardless of who does it.

Tonight, Nasri skilled up a couple of players and nutmegged one of them, but it was to get out of a tight situation so I cheered. van Persie, Denilson and others tried fancy flicks at different points and I wasn't too happy, because unless they serve some purpose they seem unecessary, can seem arrogant and can even inspire or rile the opposition.

And this is what it comes down to. Perception. You mentioned Eboue might just have wanted to try out a few moves, and that at 4-0 up it seemed the perfect time. But whether he really was just trying it out or not, it SEEMS to the opposition like a p*ss take and could easily lead to retaliation or someone taking out their frustration on one of our players.

I just think players need to be mindful of how our entertainment as the winning team is just compounding the misery of the opposition and their fans. Eboue's step-overs weren't on a par with Nani messing around whilst we were dumped out of the Cup or Ronaldo's antagonism while our title chances disappeared, but they do undermine our outrage at such actions when we're the ones being humiliated.

We humbled Porto enough by completely outplaying them and putting four goals past them. There's no need to compound their misery and show ourselves up by trying to humiliate them, regardless of who's doing it.

I'm not complaining about the stepovers because they might hurt the opposition's feelings - though I imagine the relatively easy tackle that they put in on him would have more than compensated. The sheer number of stepovers was just absurd though - it was as if he was more interested in some kind of funny joke, rather than actually playing football.

No, I just think that it's pathetic that, at a time when professionalism and attitude are all important, a player who absolutely has EVERYTHING to prove thinks he can take it on himself to play silly buggers whilst most of the rest of the team are putting as much effort in as they possibly can to put a respectable opponent to the sword, right until the end.

 

[the dawn raids]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

"I was tempted to make more than one change but I didn't want to give the feeling that I was punishing one player more than another,"

"I wanted to give the team the chance to respond quickly. The change was not to punish anyone, it was because we needed to respond quickly as a team."

it would appear he not only wants a squad of kids he wants to treat them like kids as well.

come on, these are professional footballers. for the salary theyre on they deserve a dressing down when they dont deliver, and they deserve to lose their place when they dont show complete commitment and desire no matter who the opposition. this is the same kind of attitude that will see out of form players retaining their place because he doesnt want to punish them for being ****.

im not trying to take the shine away from a good result, because it was a much better performance, and i certainly wasnt calling for the entire carling cup squad to get the nod. but i was hoping to see wenger stand by his previous comments that age has no bearing in our squad and performances do, and he completely bottled it. basicaclly longterm i think our squad would have benefitted much more with a kick in the ass, but i guess well just have to wait and find out.

 

[True Gooner]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Well, I disagree. Sometimes when you lose a game, especially in the manner that we did on Saturday, most players would want to change that ASAP and it would make sense to channel that energy in a positive way.
I'd have still liked to see Djourou come in at some point of time, but that would open up another can of worms and lead to further competition.

I wonder if the Hull game can be used as a reminder for all our players throughout the season. Yes, the Fulham loss was shocking but the Hull game was somehow more painful, probably because we were playing our strongest side (bar Nasri) and no one bothered to turn up. Wenger should use that to his advantage and remind the players of the game whenever we look disinterested or take our opponents lightly.

 

[asajoseph]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

Ultimately, if we're going to do anything this season, the majority of our team is going to have to come from the same players that lost to Hull and beat Porto.

It's all very well dropping 6 or 7 of them for one game, but it's actually more important to get this group firing on all cylinders as quickly as possible. With that in mind, I think Wenger really did the right thing against Porto - yes, attitudes have to change, but we still need these same players to form the spine of our team.

 

[KY]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

"Most teams have trouble playing at Arsenal - and that's what we faced too."

most teams but not hull city.

 

[the dawn raids]

Re: Arsenal vs FC Porto: Champions League: Tues 30/9/08 19:45

but when you show up and play that way no matter what the competition or opponent, why should you be given the immediate oppurtunity to rectify that when youve got other players whove shown against similar opposition that theyre ready to show up and take their chance? you shouldnt, and thats the problem. what edge are these guys possibly going to have when they cant hit the flat side of a barn for 90 minutes and still retain their place?

i just think for a manager who is so keen on motivating his players as he apparently is with his flyers and everything, he just let a very good oppurtunity to motivate a lot of his players fly right out the window.