Defensive Problems and How to Fix Them

[Nela]

I think this topics merits a thread of its own as I see it coming up with regularity in various threads throughout the forum. So I thought we could discuss it in one place.

We all know we had defensive problems last season. We let in too many goals, conceded leads and couldn't defend the long ball. Wenger has talked about it quite a bit. So now let's talk about how to fix it.

I think we have two issues that need to be adressed.

1.) CB Pairing
We simply don't have a first choice CB pairing that compliments eachother. Gallas showed he was a top defender when playing with Terry. Toure showed that he was a top defender when playing with Campbell. But together, they just don't work. And I believe Wenger finally realized this and it may be part of the reason Toure was shifted to right back after he and Gallas were destroyed by Drogba at Stamford Bridge.

-Song's development is starting to look really encouraging, and despite his lack of height he is a good header of the ball.

-Senderos, who was rightly held responsible for a couple of the goals at Anfield, also showed quality when he was given a consistent run during Toure's time at ACN and his strong defensive work played a big part in our games against AC Milan. Despite his mistakes, ultimately, he didn't make any bigger or more costly mistakes than Toure or Gallas last season.

-Djourou also seems to be becoming a CB, but I doubt he'll play more than a few CC games.

2.) Changing our Defensive Tactics
I think/hope we'll see a slight shift in how we defend as a team. There are a couple of issues that may/should be adressed.

- Our high line
We play with a very high line and look very vulnerable to counterattacks by the opposition. A lot of us agree that our defense needs a Vidic-type player. But if Vidic had to play in our defense, his weakness, specifically his lack of pace, would be much more exposed than it is at United. So maybe it's time to admit that we need to change this part of our defense a bit. It's definetely something to think about: Is it reasonable to expect our defense to be as good as Uniteds when we persist with such a high line? A slightly lower line may do us a world of good.

- "DM" or what it really should be called "the position next to Cesc"
Flamini's place in the starting 11 was a big part of our success during the first half of the season with his workrate, tenacity and energy. But could it also have been part of our defensive problems by the end of the season? By the last few months of the season Flamini was spending more time further up the pitch than Fabregas than he was shielding the back four. His energy and workrate was still there, but became very offensive in his game.

I think we need stronger positional sense from our centre-midfield. Particularly when opposition teams start with the threatening long-ball tactic.Our CBs need to do more to win those balls, and our "DM" need to be more positionally aware to win the second ball and make sure it doesn't go to an opposition player. Could more emphasis on positioning be part of Wenger's supposed interestin Alonso?

 

[Anzac]

I've raised the question on a number of threads here yesterday - IMO it's got to be players, tactics or both.

We play a high line because of the way we attack. Without a DM type we need to shorten the pitch, especially as the CBs are left alone, so as to limit their isolation and condense 'the hole'. Because of this we need the CBs to have pace to cover back for the balls hit over the top, and this is when Senderos becomes exposed due to a lack of pace.

If we play a deeper line with our CBs we open up 'the hole', and need a more defensive minded player in the middle, OR we need to not commit our FBs in attack so that the CBs can attack the ball down the middle & not be exposed down the flanks with the extra room. Similarly with a deeper line the CB's need to impose a more physical presence in the air, neither of which Gallas or Toure provide, but which Senderos or Djourou can.

We haven't seen new players - so have we seen any difference on the pitch as yet????

 

[Lancelot]

Don't forget the role of a Goalkeeper as well, especially when you approaches the game with high line of defence. His instinct, concentration, anticipation, decision-making as well as his ability to handle the threat accordingly and successfully are all as important as the other points you've mentioned in the opening post.

All that and it's down to only one man to do it right every single time.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Not sure we suffer from crosses or in the air. We conceded less headers than any team in prem last season. We suffer from letting ball drop and bounce from long aimless punts upfield. Thats a positional and awareness issue

 

[number_0]

Our problems can be narrowed down to the 2 CB and goalkeeper, and if one of them should be benched its the goal keeper, hes the worst of the 3, and a better goal keeper should be a priority imo.
I dont like the gallas-toure combination, but with a good goalkeeper and a top DM, their incompatibiltiy will be a myth of the past..

 

[irishgunnerz]

Totally disagree. Almunia suffered from a defence that paniced for three months under high aimless hoofed balls. Cant blame keeper for that. it was a shaky cb pairing that cost us points last season. Manny didnt win us many points Bolton game aside but didnt lose any either. A solid if unspectacular player. By far the most costly player was Gallas' strop at B'ham. Worst performer of the three was Toure post-ANC

 

[tam1886]

I don't agree with you number_0. Gallas and Toure aren't the best suited, although they did show improvements in working together over the first few months of the season. Signing a more defensive minded midfielder, and a better goalkeeper will not fix the problems they have in their game though, it will only paper over the cracks, if it even does that. We all know we aren't getting a new goalkeeper though, so we won't find the answer there.

I think defensively, we should be more worried about the CB pairings' concentration and focus than ability or tactics. I've not got the numbers, but I'm pretty sure that a large percentage of goals we conceded come as a result of momentary lapses in concentration from either one of the CB pairing. Gallas, Toure and Senderos were all guilty of this last season, and have been throughout their Arsenal careers. Unfortunately I think this may be a harder problem to solve than making tactical adjustments. What's more worrying is the fact that Gallas is as prone to these lapses as anyone else in the team, and for a man with his experience it is a terrible flaw in his game. I don't see the one midfielder that we might possibly get being the answer to our defensive problems, and it's highly unlikely Wenger is looking to change any of the players, or add to them for that matter. This leaves an awkward situation though, because if mental aspects like concentration or focus are harder to resolve, and we won't be changing/adding players to fix our problems it seems like we'd need to make changes to our tactics. That has implications of our style of play, most noticably affecting how our attacking fullbacks might play or disrupting the balance in central midfield. Fixing the defence in this way may compromise our attacking qualities, but without knowing for sure how much, it would dangerous to mess about with. Since we have seen no sign of any tactical changes so far in the pre-season games, I suspect Wenger is not going to be making any adjustments to how we play to fix our defensive frailties. It seems like Wenger is working on the logic that learning from past mistakes will iron out the creases. Whether this will be enough to see improvements in defence remains to be seen, although like I said earlier, someone like Gallas (and to a lesser extent Toure) making these basic mistakes is especially worrying and if he is still making these mistakes at his age I really don't see any hope of him learning from them in future.

There is the also issue of the long ball, but dominating players like Drogba or Crouch does not worry me. I'd be quite happy for them to win their headers, but we should be more alert and be waiting for the second ball. No doubt we should be challenging and making their lives as difficult as possible, but those players are among the best at what they do in the world. The players don't have the sense of urgency needed when someone like Drogba wins his knockdown. Perhaps this was inexperience or being naive, or a mixture of the two, but we need to cut that out and stop attackers getting a sniff of the ball around our box. The attacking players in support are usually as dangerous as the targetman, but don't get treated with the same respect on long balls, which is criminal when you consider how much damage some of these players can do in and around our half. The long ball is hopeless without proper support but we don't seem to focus enough attention on these players in anticipating the movement of the ball. Ideally we would be able to stop long balls at the first opportunity, but if we don't manage that then winning the second ball should be a must (and it gets the ball on the ground for us to play).

As a captain, and the main CB, I also get annoyed at Gallas' lack of leadership at defending set pieces. All to often someone else is left to pick up the dangerman when Gallas should be stepping up to the plate an inspiring confidence in the team. We seem to overload the box with every available player at set plays, and I think it's because we lack the confidence in the defensive players to carry out their job. There is no need to have ten players in and around the box when we are defending corners, but all too often we defend like that and it looks very messy and disorganised. We are capable of breaking quickly, but I feel that if we were able to leave RvP/Walcott/Player X further up the pitch we would be far more dangerous in coming out and countering. I'm all for leaving Adebayor or Bendtner in the box, as their height is a real advantage, and they do seem to win their fair share of headed clearances when they play.

 

[arsmile]

i do think that both gallas and toure are fantastic CBs...the problem is they appear, to an extent, to be incompatable in certain systems, i think though- the most likely solution is to find a way to make them work as oppose to find new personel- neither would be happy at being dropped, nor could we accomodate them elsewhere in the team, and they are the two most experienced players we have- loosing them means we may suffer in other areas- particularly if we are not replacing them with a similarly experienced CB.

with regards to the system, our fullbacks are rightly untouchable- and also they neccesetate a high line- in order for them to effectively catch up with the defensive line- and also the CBs will be left exposed- with the fullbacks up the other end of the pitch and no DM hanging around if we drop deeper- also we have a pacy back line including our two first choice CBs, so that is soemthing we need to stick with. a high line means that our goalkeeper may be exposed and needs to be able to sweep up effectively- not something almunia has had a particular problem with in the past

with regards to a partner to cesc- no doubt we could sure ourselves up with a bonafide DM- but is it worth it- my favourite for that position is denilson, and i would not be prepared to sacrifice what he can contribute for a gilberto, or worse a makalele figure. so i would, again, say finding a DM to help win the headers/long balls (which is our number one problem)- is probably not the solution.

i say the solution is simply to change the approach the team has to defending the long balls that catch us out- it's all about the second ball, and woth Cbs and cesc and his partner in the core of the team- we could be lightweight but good hustlers- we actually did change our approach in the last few weeks a biut and it started to work.

other problems we had are just a matter of making sure the midfielders track runs (which they havent), improving concentration with regards to marking at set pieces.


so all i'm saying is i think that our solution could be in systems and tactics, not personel- mainly because bringing in a defensive player in the problem positions could detract from our all round play (DMs)- or take away what little experience we have (CBs)- and sometimes it's worth risking being exposed a bit in favour of causing offensive opportunities (just look at our fullback philosiphy)-

 

[Captain]

We'll be defensively stronger with Denilson (or the new signing) replacing Flamini and Nasri taking the left sided role permanently.

 

[tam1886]

I understand what you're saying about Denilson, but what do you mean about Nasri? Do you mean that he would be an improvement on Diaby playing there, or that he brings something else to the team?

 

[Captain]

The left side will be much stronger defensively because not only is Nasri more adept at winning the ball then the players we have had playing there, but the development of a real partnership rather then the chopping and changing of the last couple of years will improve Clichy and lighten his burden.

We conceded goals from that side last year and some of it was down to Clichy's errors but a larger proportion was because he was too stretched by basically playing on his own out there.

 

[nidza7]

We have only Gael as quality at LB atm.My wild guess is AW will sign some CB capable of switching with Clichy.We`ll murder the frenchman playing week in week out.

 

[DC Gunner]

1.) CB Pairing
We simply don't have a first choice CB pairing that compliments eachother. Gallas showed he was a top defender when playing with Terry. Touré showed that he was a top defender when playing with Campbell. But together, they just don't work. And I believe Wenger finally realized this and it may be part of the reason Touré was shifted to right back after he and Gallas were destroyed by Drogba at Stamford Bridge.
.
.
.
.

Maybe you don't want to say it directly, but both campbell and Terry excelled in the Aerial part of the defensive duties, that would explain a lot about the above statement.I think they are too similar to each other to be complementary to each other.

2.) Changing our Defensive Tactics
.
.
.
- "DM" or what it really should be called "the position next to Cesc"
Flamini's place in the starting 11 was a big part of our success during the first half of the season with his workrate, tenacity and energy. But could it also have been part of our defensive problems by the end of the season? By the last few months of the season Flamini was spending more time further up the pitch than Fabregas than he was shielding the back four. His energy and workrate was still there, but became very offensive in his game.

Flamini won people here because of his hustling and exuberance, something if combined with talent would have made a better player out of him which would have made wenger cling to him more.

Whatever role he was playing, he certainly was not defensive oriented in terms of discipline, and he was not Scholes nor Hargreaves quality wise[and that is why he is not here]

I think we need stronger positional sense from our centre-midfield. Particularly when opposition teams start with the threatening long-ball tactic.Our CBs need to do more to win those balls, and our "DM" need to be more positionally aware to win the second ball and make sure it doesn't go to an opposition player.

I think part of the issue has to be the style, Full backs pushing forward forces the CBs to move higher in order to delay a counter and give the full backs time to track back quickly, the success of that does course depend on how the opponent execute their counter attack.

Also, too much passing on our part in the last third means more players are involved forward.

I don't know who could be a good midfield replacement, but think that we have enough scoring potential to warrant getting someone who is a little bit more defensive oriented than Flamini was.

 

[Anzac]

see for a short passing possession based style - I don't see the reasoning behind having our FBs so committed to the attack!!! Sure they provide over laping runs & cross the ball - but so what!!! IMO as an attacking tactic that flies in the face of our basic play, and then we aren't very good at putting in a quality cross so we are in effect giving away possession with a low percentage play.

I agree with something (I think it may have been Kel) said earlier about Ade's physical height encouraging us to play sloppy / hoof ball.

 

[TomasCR]

I don´t think there is any problem in the defence and I will be satisfied with the duo Gallas - Toure. All the things that have been said in this thread are maybe true and on the paper, it looks very simply, but it´s not so easy to be a defender. As the nearly last player before your goalkeeper you have the biggest responsibility because when you lost a ball or make some huge mistake, it´s only your mistake and you´re the player that will be blamed for the goal, no one cares it was a midfielder that lost the ball before you or it was Adebayor that didn´t score a clear chance and an opponent scored from the fast break, you´re a defender and that´s it.

You should also realize that against our defenders play the best players in the world and they´re the best because they can achieve against to anybody. Of course you look clumsy when Drogba scored and you´re the player that shoud stop him but what can you do, he is just too good.

The Cesc´s partner will be propably the most important player in the question of defensive, he is the player who must run deep into our side and want ball to pass it to the next player, it can make the life of defenders much easier, a quality defensive midfielder would solve our defensive "problems".

 

[Anzac]

good ball distribution in a timely manner..........as opposed to dwelling on the ball or passing sideways only.........

 

[Biggus]

No commanding presence in the area either from our "captain", goalkeeper or a tall CB.

 

[sesquioxide]

I think defensively, we should be more worried about the CB pairings' concentration and focus than ability or tactics. I've not got the numbers, but I'm pretty sure that a large percentage of goals we conceded come as a result of momentary lapses in concentration from either one of the CB pairing. Gallas, Touré and Senderos were all guilty of this last season, and have been throughout their Arsenal careers. Unfortunately I think this may be a harder problem to solve than making tactical adjustments. What's more worrying is the fact that Gallas is as prone to these lapses as anyone else in the team, and for a man with his experience it is a terrible flaw in his game.

I absolutely agree with this. There is no need to look for number, just enough to look at the most decisive games:

Liverpool - Emirates (Champions League Q-Finals)
Adebayor 23
Kuyt 26

Liverpool - Anfield (Champions League Q-Finals)
Adebayor 84
Gerrard (pen - Toure) 86

Manchester United - Old Trafford (Title Decider)
Adebayor 48
Ronaldo (pen - Gallas) 54

Conceding goals and penalties in our 3 most important games at the late season 5 minutes after someone managed to score a goal is simply horrendous and will not be rectified by better defensive tactics. I am willing to forgive Toure's mistakes late season because he just came back from injury and because he has showed what he can do previously (e.g. run up to the Champions League final). Gallas however I find impossible to forgive. For all his supposed experience, he has demonstrated no ability to deal with his old teammate Drogba. For his talk of mental toughness he conceded an own goal in one game and conceded a penalty in another in our 2 games against Manchester United in the league.

We need better defensive players, and I can't understand why Wenger continues to trust Gallas with the armband.

 

[Gazza Martinez]

Buying a commanding goalkeeper who's adept at organising the defense and not afraid to bollock the likes of Kolo, Phil, and even Gallas when they do their wanton pub defender impressions. Never underestimate the effect an authorative keeper can have on the defense.

 

[Linson]

I think its absolutely absurd anyone can blame Almunia for our defensive problems! Our biggest problem is that Toure and Gallas are too similar in style to play together.
IMO -
Gallas - Djourou or
Toure - Senderos

These combinations have proved to work, granted the naivety of Djourou is worrying at times. We need an energetic, tough tackling, no nonsense DM in our squad. A more mobile version of Torsten Frings or a less defensively naive Diaby would do the job I think.