Defensive Problems and How to Fix Them

[sesquioxide]

That we may be poor going forward doesn't mean the defense is permitted to leak goals. In our cup exits, we conceded 5 at White Hart Lane, 4 at Old Trafford, and 4 at Anfield. I don't care how badly our offense might be going in all those games, but those are very grim numbers. We can't shift blame to the offense when the offense fails to produce 3 + away goals to offset the leakage in the back. Nor can we blame the offense when the defense can never be counted to "hang on", not even for the 10 minutes that separated us from another Champions League Semi-Final after Walcott's brilliant contribution.

Our defense even managed to concede 2 goals against Derby. We have the weakest defense of the Big Four for 3 seasons now and it shows.

Like I said last time, why dont you pinpoint what you think is wrong with our defence rather than throwing stats at me again? You quoting the scorline from a cup match we had our second choice defence on doesnt mean anything to me. United struggled a lot after they lost Vidic.

I think I have stated it very clearly. Our defensive players can't maintain focus and concentration. The second goal Derby scored on us was a very clear example. Gallas lost focus (perhaps because he was certain of victory?) and we were punished. The same as those penalties at Anfield and Old Trafford, or those self inflicted wounds like the penalty at Birmingham or the own goal at the Emirates against Aston Villa. There is nothing else to pinpoint because these players "on paper" are good enough to handle the situations they found themselves in, but yet failed to when the pressure is on.

And how can you say that losing cup matches with a "second choice defence" "doesn't mean anything"? Is it good enough for us to have substitutes for Gallas and Toure who concede multiple away goals, and is it acceptable when we are begging for trophies for us to ignore the Carling Cup or the FA Cup? Does it mean nothing to lose 5-1 at the White Hart Lane?

And was it really a "second choice defence" in those games? The centerback pairing may be half-"second choice" against Tottenham but it definitely wasn't against Manchester United or Liverpool:

Carling Cup
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/league_cup/7197913.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 197913.stm</a>
Arsenal: Fabianski, Sagna, Justin Hoyte, Gallas, Traore (Eduardo 65), Hleb, Denilson (Fabregas 18), Silva, Diaby, Walcott (Adebayor 65), Bendtner.
Subs Not Used: Mannone, Flamini.

FA Cup
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/fa_cup/7224064.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 224064.stm</a>
Arsenal: Lehmann, Justin Hoyte, Gallas, Toure, Traore, Eboue, Fabregas (Flamini 70), Silva, Hleb (Adebayor 70), Eduardo (Senderos 71), Bendtner.
Subs Not Used: Fabianski, Clichy.

Champions League
<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/europe/7332209.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 332209.stm</a>
Arsenal: Almunia, Toure, Gallas, Senderos, Clichy, Eboue (Walcott 72), Flamini (Silva 42), Fabregas, Diaby (Van Persie 72), Hleb, Adebayor.
Subs Not Used: Lehmann, Song Billong, Bendtner, Justin Hoyte.

I want a better centerback pairing, as simple as that. I am still on a "wait and see" attitude towards Almunia.

 

[otfgoon]

The way you talk its as if the centre back pairing are solely responsible for goals conceded, for the cup games Traore and Hoyte made it a nightmare for Gallas to defend due to their ineptness at playing offside, not to mention the lack of desire from the side including the midfield. Not saying the centre backs were faultless, but its hardly the right games to judge them on. Whether or not we should have tried harder to win those games is an entirely different debate.

What part of our defending was so terrible against United then? The handball is just a freak incident, I dont know what to call it but its not something that makes me thing GALLAS MUST GO. Gilberto conceding a free kick and Hargreaves scoring with a lovely effort is again not exactly terrible defending on the centre backs part.

Livepool game.... well yes you've got me there, horrific performance from Swiss but remember he was solid for a dozen other games. Like I said earlier you just have to look at how badly United struggled with Vidic out, as a backup centre back goes you wont get much better than Senderos.

 

[JazzG]

I'm not gonna get into detail but defending isn't just about the back four, it is about the midfield as well. Back in 03/04 when we last won the title as a team we were compact but last season that wasn't the case. Our midfield must provide more protection. We have midfielders who want to help defensively but there isn't much organisation there and it gets bypassed all to easily. Look at Man utd last season especially against Barca where you could see as a team they defended so well, as a tactic it was risky but I was impressed by how well drilled the team was defensively. On the ball no team is better but off the ball we need to be much more compact because we leave so many gaps for teams to exploit. As a team there is a lot of room for improvement and I hope Wenger works on that this summer because in attack we are good enough.

The back four needs to improve as well, Toure and Gallas are too similar and the general understanding between the four needs improving. Though I do feel much of our poor defensive performances in the 2nd half of the season came from Toure being a liability from the day he came back from the African cup of nations. Senderos+Gallas had been forming a good partnership but it was needlessly broken. Senderos in particular has been low on confidence and I don't think dropping him did his confidence any good but he did get back in quite quickly again when Toure got injured then dropped again. Wenger showed some courage leaving Lehmann and Gilberto out of the side but bottled it when it came to Senderos.

Ideally we needed a new GK, CB and DM but knowing Wenger and how he sometimes has a habit of neglecting the defensive side of our game I'd settle for one. Signing of Sagna last summer was a step in the right direction but more needs to be done but I wouldn't count on anything happening.

 

[thegame24]

Buy a ****ing goalkeeper, then worry about a defender.

 

[Biggus]

blah blah blah BLAME ALMUNIA AND GALLAS blah blah blah

That's the most sensible thing you've said yet MD.

 

[TomasCR]

Actually his post says exactly what is this thread about. Buy better CD, better goalkeeper, defensive problems are solved and we can blame Eboue again.

 

[irishgunnerz]

Not sure why the foul language game, seems to be what comes from you most posts....no real need for it tbh

And as others have said in past few pages, its hard point more blame at a keeper when he's consistantly let down over a period of two months by those in front of him.

Gallas strop at Birmingham, Senderos' breakdown & Toure's inexplicable loss of form after ANC cost us. I'm not sure you can point at a game and say Manny lost it for us, indeed his save against Bolton when 2-0 down pretty much earned us points that day - and at a time when confidence was fragile that win did the team alot of good.

Looking at the silly goals given away by long aimless balls over the top it's hard see why people are so bitter about Almunia. Yes the keeper organizes his defense but they also have to rely on the CBs to be strong and keep an eye on the ball and the player. Too many times Gallas and Toure, and Senderos against Pool in the Champions League seemed caught in two minds under a hooded clearance. Not alot anyone external to them can do. Lack of confidence, lack of concentration yes.

I know people blame Manny for one of the Liverpool goals but they don't mention Toure's incredibly clumsy challenge that gave them the winner. Some(and I find this incredible) simply are still bitter after the Champion's League Final.

Like wtf Manny was off the bench, hadn't been playing regularly and the defending wasn't exactly superb in fron of him for either of those goals either. That was years ago. And indeed if anyone should be castigated for that loss it should be Lehman for again an incredibly clumsy challenge and Henry for missing not one but two one on ones.

 

[Macho]

Defsensive problems and how to fix them?
You usually buy a defender or two.

 

[Smartly Dressed Morris]

Defsensive problems and how to fix them?
You usually buy a defender or two.

 

[MDGoonah41]

Damn. I tried to make these into easy to read graphics, but the length is too wide apparently.

Anyway. The big difference between 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 was the number of goals we scored away from home.

'06'07: 20
'07-08: 37

We picked up only 26 points away from home in 06/07 compared to 37 last year. We had a home GD of +27 in 06/07 compared to +26 last year, though we did concede 5 fewer goals in 07/08.

Our defense didn't change a whole lot, our ability to score goals did. By a big margin. We scored the most away goals of any EPL team in 07/08, 4 more than our closest competitor (Man U) and 8 more than Chelsea. Man U took 52 of 57 possible points at home (91%), compared to us at 47/57 (83%). That was ultimately the difference in the title race. We actually took one more point on our travels than they did, 36 to 35. Chelsea actually managed more wins away from the Bridge (13) than they did at home (12) despite a worse goal differential (+16) than both Arsenal (+17) and Man U (+18). Weird. Or luck. You choose.

 

[Biggus]

Some(and I find this incredible) simply are still bitter after the Champion's League Final.

F**king sure we still are. :wink:

 

[AnthonyG]

Some(and I find this incredible) simply are still bitter after the Champion's League Final.

F**king sure we still are. :wink:

Let it go big guy. Lehmann and Henry are gone now. :wink:

 

[Meatwad]

clichy needs to lock up the left side like sagna has done with the right side. way too much action occurred on his side of the pitch last season.

 

[Macho]

How on earth can you NOT be bitter about that champions league final?

I won't stop being bitter until we bloody win the effing cup neither.

 

[thegame24]

Not sure why the foul language game, seems to be what comes from you most posts....no real need for it tbh

And as others have said in past few pages, its hard point more blame at a keeper when he's consistantly let down over a period of two months by those in front of him.

Gallas strop at Birmingham, Senderos' breakdown & Touré's inexplicable loss of form after ANC cost us. I'm not sure you can point at a game and say Manny lost it for us, indeed his save against Bolton when 2-0 down pretty much earned us points that day - and at a time when confidence was fragile that win did the team alot of good.

Looking at the silly goals given away by long aimless balls over the top it's hard see why people are so bitter about Almunia. Yes the keeper organizes his defense but they also have to rely on the CBs to be strong and keep an eye on the ball and the player. Too many times Gallas and Touré, and Senderos against Pool in the Champions League seemed caught in two minds under a hooded clearance. Not alot anyone external to them can do. Lack of confidence, lack of concentration yes.

I know people blame Manny for one of the Liverpool goals but they don't mention Touré's incredibly clumsy challenge that gave them the winner. Some(and I find this incredible) simply are still bitter after the Champion's League Final.

Like wtf Manny was off the bench, hadn't been playing regularly and the defending wasn't exactly superb in fron of him for either of those goals either. That was years ago. And indeed if anyone should be castigated for that loss it should be Lehman for again an incredibly clumsy challenge and Henry for missing not one but two one on ones.

lol here we go about the swearing again.

I i get told about my swearing once then everybody jumps on it, meanwhile mods and elite mmbers say **** or **** every other post and nothing is said.

Oh yea i was also called a racist maybe you wanna jump on that too, good thing i shut them up big time with those accusations.

Oh and until almunia helps us win a major trophy, hell always be ****!

 

[Anzac]

How on earth can you NOT be bitter about that champions league final?

I won't stop being bitter until we bloody win the effing cup neither.

seconded - the only reason I'm not still bitter about losing the FA Cup to Owen & LFC, is because of our inept performance to deny ManU & lift the trophy on penalties!!!!

 

[Anzac]

Damn. I tried to make these into easy to read graphics, but the length is too wide apparently.

Anyway. The big difference between 2006-2007 and 2007-2008 was the number of goals we scored away from home.

'06'07: 20
'07-08: 37

We picked up only 26 points away from home in 06/07 compared to 37 last year. We had a home GD of +27 in 06/07 compared to +26 last year, though we did concede 5 fewer goals in 07/08.

Our defense didn't change a whole lot, our ability to score goals did. By a big margin. We scored the most away goals of any EPL team in 07/08, 4 more than our closest competitor (Man U) and 8 more than Chelsea. Man U took 52 of 57 possible points at home (91%), compared to us at 47/57 (83%). That was ultimately the difference in the title race. We actually took one more point on our travels than they did, 36 to 35. Chelsea actually managed more wins away from the Bridge (13) than they did at home (12) despite a worse goal differential (+16) than both Arsenal (+17) and Man U (+18). Weird. Or luck. You choose.

Chel$ki are supposed to be a team of star name players, but play boring defensive football - however thair stats are on a par with ours for all that. Alternatively for all our brilliant football we aren't noticeably better than them in attack.

One thing I'd like to see with those stats is WHEN those goals were scored - IMO that's about as telling as anything about how you are going on the pitch. EG - we can claim to be an attacking, attractive possession passing footballing team, with the 2nd best goals scored in the PL - but if the majority of those goals are being scored in the last 30 mins then the question must be asked as to how effective we are in what we do. I'd far rather we scored the majority of those goals in the 1st 30 mins than any other time period - gives you soooo many options & control of the game.

 

[Biggus]

How on earth can you NOT be bitter about that champions league final?

I won't stop being bitter until we bloody win the effing cup neither.

seconded - the only reason I'm not still bitter about losing the FA Cup to Owen & LFC, is because of our inept performance to deny ManU & lift the trophy on penalties!!!!

I'm still bitter about losing the 1972 FA cup to Leeds (0-1 from an Alan Clarke header) because that's what caring about a team is- you feel happy when they win and sad they lose....Remember

WIN = GOOD

LOSE = BAD

If you want to sit and appreciate the quality of the entertainment on an intellectual level I suggest that you watch two sides that you have no emotional interest in.

 

[clockwork orange]

We should get somebody responsible for the defensive working under Wenger. A defensive coach. Would like him to have a big say in who we sign. Our key problem is not how we defend (of course there's room for improvement & we should always work on improving it), but who Wenger buys/plays. Never rated his choice of goalies and same goes to a lesser degree for his choice of central defenders.

 

[qs]

We should get somebody responsible for the defensive working under Wenger. A defensive coach. Would like him to have a big say in who we sign. Our key problem is not how we defend (of course there's room for improvement & we should always work on improving it), but who Wenger buys/plays. Never rated his choice of goalies and same goes to a lesser degree for his choice of central defenders.

Theres alot of truth in this. Its not a new thing either. Since losing the great defence he inherited its always seemed his main weakness when making signings, not at full back mind you. Then again I don't think we've ever gotten the level of performance from Gallas he gave Chelsea, which I'll admit is hard to judge as they were a very defensive team under Mourimho and we're an attacking side so obviously you ask more of your defence when you play as we do.

He's never unearthed a great centre half though like he has with attacking players and fullbacks. Maybe if we'd more money he'd just bite the bullet and sign a big name defender but then who knows what sort of money we have.