Emirates Cup - Arsenal Vs Rangers |02.08.09| 4.15pm

[asajoseph]

What Denilson needs, as much as anything else, is the ability / confidence to get his head up and read the situation on the field around him, when he's got the ball. He's got to learn to protect it better, and hang onto it a bit longer, instead of selecting the first open man he sees in the direction he's facing.

It felt like about half of his passes on Saturday just went straight back to Gallas - nothing wrong with keeping possession, but he has to be able to use the ball more effectively. It's all very well showing for it 95% of the time, but if you're not create momentum when you've got it, you're just slowing everything down.

So yeah, that, on top of strength, and the desire to actually track back when play gets behind him, and maybe he'll one day be good enough to start regularly.

You see, i don't see that as being his role in this side, and i believe he's doing exactly what is asked of him. To pick the ball up short, and keep possession ticking over. To me, the role you've described is the one you'd expect of Cesc. I do think a central midfield of Cesc, Denilson, and a busier, powerful midfielder could really do the business for us.

I don't really buy this argument, or the idea that Wenger has somehow 'shackled' Denilson.

I don't think this idea that someone who will sit and play conservative backward and lateral passes in front of the defence is something we need. Fine, if he's not got great vision, that can be compensated for by tempo or the physical presence to hold onto the ball to commit markers. But he has none of these things.

Ideally, attack starts from the back, and having a central midfielder who isn't really able to operate under pressure in front of the defence, and has no real great passing threat from deep, is always going to slow our play down and cause us problems going forward. It serves no real purpose.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Link

On a personal level, this article shows how far Denilson has come and for that I respect him. People calling him a 'coward' in the true sense of the word really need to get some perspective.

True words. Mentality, above anything else, is that will make Denilson succeed in the end. I read that article too but at another paper and I remember being moved by it.

 

[kamikaze80]

i agree, if he's playing as a defensive-minded CM, he should have ~4 forward passing options when he gets the ball, and i'd expect him to get the ball to one of them quickly and accurately. in my opinion, his completion %'s may be high, but his pass selection is not great and he often underhits his passes and leaves the receiver in a bad/dangerous position.

flamini wasn't exactly a creative passer but his balls were crisp and he released it quickly.

 

[qs]

Link

On a personal level, this article shows how far Denilson has come and for that I respect him. People calling him a 'coward' in the true sense of the word really need to get some perspective.

True words. Mentality, above anything else, is that will make Denilson succeed in the end. I read that article too but at another paper and I remember being moved by it.

Anyone calling Denilson a coward really hasn't the slightest clue. He has some physical deficiencies and whether he's ready for first team duty is in serious doubt but to write him off is simple minded. It shows up the kind of fans who can't see the wood from the trees. IMO Denilson shouldn't be starting but to write him off is at best short sighted and at worst just plain stupid.

 

[Clrnc]

Link

On a personal level, this article shows how far Denilson has come and for that I respect him. People calling him a 'coward' in the true sense of the word really need to get some perspective.

He's not good enough to start week in, week out but that's not his fault - at the age of 21 he should be learning a new position from someone above him rather than being pushed into the deep end.

Also, I do believe that his creativity and willingness to play the pass has been dampened by his responsibilities in midfield. I rememeber him being very creative when he broke through and even at the start of last season he was a far more dynamic player.

His goals against Bolton and Newcastle illustrate that. Plus, his assists against the likes of Blackburn and West Brom. All these games came in the opening two months of the season - since then have we seen Denilson take up those positions or make those runs? Not really.

The ability is there imo.

Firstly, if you are referring to my post, then I suggest you read it properly because I did not call him a coward.

Secondly, the bold part is what we are about nowsaday. Our young players often come through at around 19-22. If you can't really establish youself despite playing a full season, thats saying alot about either your mentality or your ability. He has learned 3 full seasons from the bench watching the seniors play. He got his chance last season and as far as I am concerned, did not fully grab the opportunity at all.

You have mentioned a key point. He have the ability and when he came through, he played differently, but why is he playing this way now? You can see the way he is playing now is really poor. I don't buy the Wenger told him to do this or changed him badly story. We don't see the other players passing to the first person their vision see? Don't fool youself with his responsibilities, he had taken none. I am tired of seeing other players taking up a 2 man role just to cover up for his lack of tracking and defensive positioning leaving gapping holes in the middle of the park. He either need to man up and take responsibility to impose himself into the game or he will not make it here soon enough when Ramsey and Merida takes his place.

Asa's 2 posts pinpointed alot of what we are calling out for him and what he is lacking. I am thinking it might be that when he first came into the scene he mishitted alot of passes wayward and therefore did not dare to pass it or try those anymore. Nowsadays even his passes have a serious lack of proper weight on it which Kami mentioned it as well. There were alot of moments where he just passed to someone beside but he didnt realise with so many people marking him, the ball was lost. He tried through passes which is either underhit or overhit where it just rebounds back from our players like he was shooting.

 

[alboots101]

bash....

you do know you could say all that about our beloved Captain dont you.

 

[graham_ka]

agree qs

 

[redanddread]

Walcott is VITAL for this team-He provides PACE in abundance and that is real threat. His control at pace has improved greatly, his final ball will improve-in short he provides a VITAL alternative for or attacking options!

 

[Webdesignlab]

The Denilson situation is the epitome of what is wrong with Arsenal.

He should be learning his craft, not supporting the foundations of a team like ours.

Nothing wrong with him except that it is very annoying to see his name on every team sheet, when we all know ... and the whole world blah, blah, blah ... that we need an experienced MOFO in there before him.

Right now all these formations are doing is trying to stick an extra guy to help him out. Just buy the right guy ffs.

Wengelsonism - totally baffling.

 

[True Gooner]

Firstly, if you are referring to my post, then I suggest you read it properly because I did not call him a coward.

I wasn't. I suggest you read my post.

Secondly, the bold part is what we are about nowsaday. Our young players often come through at around 19-22. If you can't really establish youself despite playing a full season, thats saying alot about either your mentality or your ability.

I don't accept that at all. By your logic the likes of Bendtner, Vela and Walcott are running out of time as well.
Players find their feet at different times, the likes of Fabregas, Messi and Clichy are exceptions rather than the rule. The fact that Denilson has been pushed into this role at the age of 20 is not his fault, it's Wengers.

You have mentioned a key point. He have the ability and when he came through, he played differently, but why is he playing this way now? You can see the way he is playing now is really poor. I don't buy the Wenger told him to do this or changed him badly story. We don't see the other players passing to the first person their vision see? Don't fool youself with his responsibilities, he had taken none. I am tired of seeing other players taking up a 2 man role just to cover up for his lack of tracking and defensive positioning leaving gapping holes in the middle of the park. He either need to man up and take responsibility to impose himself into the game or he will not make it here soon enough when Ramsey and Merida takes his place.

I simply tried to explain why Denilson isn't as creative as he used to be and to me, that seems to be the most likely option. Otherwise how would you explain a significant change in his style of play?

And I'm not just talking about his passes, his movement has regressed as well - against the likes of West Brom, Blackburn, Bolton, Newcastle etc he was more than willing to run into the final third of the pitch.

Law made a good point a few days ago. At the start of last season Wenger tried to replace Flamini with Denilson and asked him to play a similar style of play to the Frenchman.
Unfortunately that didn't quite work out and since then the defensive midfielder has been asked to sit in a more restrictive role.

 

[patrick42uk]

Walcott is VITAL for this team-He provides PACE in abundance and that is real threat. His control at pace has improved greatly, his final ball will improve-in short he provides a VITAL alternative for or attacking options!

I'm still convinced that Theo can be super productive over a season. In every game he gets in behind at least once and you cant say that about a lot of players. He's super frustrating right now but I think he'll come good.

 

[AliBabaBrewer]

Walcott is VITAL for this team-He provides PACE in abundance and that is real threat. His control at pace has improved greatly, his final ball will improve-in short he provides a VITAL alternative for or attacking options!

I'd love to see Walcott and Traore on the wings, maybe in like an FA Cup game, with Bendtner just staying up front like he's meant to, to head the crosses in.

 

[A_Gooner_Matata]

By the way, has there been any sign of the exciting Arsenalisation of the Emirates that Gazidis was talking about a while back?

 

[progman07]

Walcott is VITAL for this team-He provides PACE in abundance and that is real threat. His control at pace has improved greatly, his final ball will improve-in short he provides a VITAL alternative for or attacking options!

I'd love to see Walcott and Traore on the wings, maybe in like an FA Cup game, with Bendtner just staying up front like he's meant to, to head the crosses in.

What would we do if they stayed in front of their box and didn't come out? Where would Theo and Traore run to then?

 

[Kain]

Walcott is VITAL for this team-He provides PACE in abundance and that is real threat. His control at pace has improved greatly, his final ball will improve-in short he provides a VITAL alternative for or attacking options!

I'd love to see Walcott and Traore on the wings, maybe in like an FA Cup game, with Bendtner just staying up front like he's meant to, to head the crosses in.

What would we do if they stayed in front of their box and didn't come out? Where would Theo and Traore run to then?

They would run down the tunnel, while we sub on Wilshere & Vela

 

[Lord Dula]

Oh and for the optimism the weekends friendlies have raised, dont forget we're great when there's nothing at stake - you can bet if we need to go to Munich, PSV, Spain or wherever and grab a draw to get through to the last eight of the Champions League, our midfield will look something like this:-


Eboue------Song-----Denilson-----Diaby
--------------Cesc

 

[Clrnc]

Secondly, the bold part is what we are about nowsaday. Our young players often come through at around 19-22. If you can't really establish youself despite playing a full season, thats saying alot about either your mentality or your ability.

I don't accept that at all. By your logic the likes of Bendtner, Vela and Walcott are running out of time as well.
Players find their feet at different times, the likes of Fabregas, Messi and Clichy are exceptions rather than the rule. The fact that Denilson has been pushed into this role at the age of 20 is not his fault, it's Wengers.

I'd say Bendtner, Walcott, Vela game are pretty much very acceptable. They have shown some fantastic stuff and generally don't really have any major deficiencies. Furthermore, they are all forwards, which isn't as important a role compared to Denilson which really influence the game.

You have mentioned a key point. He have the ability and when he came through, he played differently, but why is he playing this way now? You can see the way he is playing now is really poor. I don't buy the Wenger told him to do this or changed him badly story. We don't see the other players passing to the first person their vision see? Don't fool youself with his responsibilities, he had taken none. I am tired of seeing other players taking up a 2 man role just to cover up for his lack of tracking and defensive positioning leaving gapping holes in the middle of the park. He either need to man up and take responsibility to impose himself into the game or he will not make it here soon enough when Ramsey and Merida takes his place.

I simply tried to explain why Denilson isn't as creative as he used to be and to me, that seems to be the most likely option. Otherwise how would you explain a significant change in his style of play?

And I'm not just talking about his passes, his movement has regressed as well - against the likes of West Brom, Blackburn, Bolton, Newcastle etc he was more than willing to run into the final third of the pitch.

Law made a good point a few days ago. At the start of last season Wenger tried to replace Flamini with Denilson and asked him to play a similar style of play to the Frenchman.
Unfortunately that didn't quite work out and since then the defensive midfielder has been asked to sit in a more restrictive role.

Yep, even you can see he has really fallen way way behind in his general games. I really don't think Wenger asked Denilson to play the Flamini role because even when he is partnered beside Song, he is still playing his natural game which is the error straught ones we pinpointed. Generally Wenger often gets the best out of his players. And if Denilson really wants to replicate Flamini's game, we should be looking at his good points. Crisp passing, intelligent movements, spreading the play, tracking runners, good positioning etc etc.

 

[Jasard]

Oh and for the optimism the weekends friendlies have raised, dont forget we're great when there's nothing at stake - you can bet if we need to go to Munich, PSV, Spain or wherever and grab a draw to get through to the last eight of the Champions League, our midfield will look something like this:-


Eboue------Song-----Denilson-----Diaby
--------------Cesc

Wow... thanks for that...

 

[outlaw_member]

If there was an instant that best summed up Silvestre, it happened during this game. He went forward into the opposition penalty area to provide an offensive threat, but when the keeper collected the ball and initiated a counter. Silvestre was clearly seen as jogging back ever so slowly, even though Rangers had moved the ball into our own half. Funnily enough, Gallas was the second furthest attacker just behind Silvestre, right before the opposition keeper took the ball. Makes you wonder, how the **** does both of your CB's run forward simultaneously, especially into the opponents penalty area.

 

[alboots101]

it was a friendly....and Gallas was involved...