EPL:Arsenal v Bolton Wanderers | Sat, Jan 10, 2009 15:00

[asajoseph]

Well DOUBLE-YOU, the way I see it, you have to balance the midfield, and that doesn't mean play the most defensive collection of players that you can find. Not only do you have to balance attributes like 'size', you also have to balance the attacking and defensive side of the game, and today we did not do that.

The evidence on the pitch was pretty obvious, unless you saw today's game differently?

 

[GaelForce22]

Feck it was cold today.

Anyway, we've just seen exactly why Arshavin or someone of that ilk is required (as well as a central midfielder). The pass-pass-pass-cross-clearance-pass-pass-pass-cross-clearance game that we seem to play without Cesc and Theo is struggling to break teams with any type of defensive stability and the movement from the forwards bar Robin was next to nothing. Diaby, Eboue and Denilson offered no creativity and until Vela came on it looked like we weren't going to score. Van Persie was our best player by far and Ade played worse than I've seen from him since he was partnered with Baptista. Credit to Bendtner today, got a goal despite boos and jeers from the crowd.
Toure and Djourou were amazing. Not just in their play but they were jeeing up the other players and shouting instructions at everyone. A post-Gallas partnership?

Oh and the crowd were great in the second half. Really got behind the team (except for Bendtner) and gave support when things looked bad instead of boos.

 

[asajoseph]

Bendtner got a really big cheer when he scored today. And a big hand from the Red Section after the final whistle.

He'll probably need a few more goals to win over the whole crowd, but I'm glad something went for him today.

 

[qs]

Tell me what you believe Denilson's strengths are then please mate.

Well firstly I think he's a very intelligent player, he's almost always composed and he does things quickly. I think he's extremely hard working and has a great engine. Contrary to popular opinion he's actually quite creative when he isn't deployed at DM. He's quick, he's technically excellent. And he always appears to be improving.

However he isn't ready for our first 11 yet and he isn't a suitable partner for Cesc but he is the best central midfielder we currently have available.

 

[General]

The support was better in the second half. Bolton pretty much out-sung us in the first but then again they were singing one bloody song throughout the whole game.

Credit to Bendtner today, got a goal despite boos and jeers from the crowd.
Touré and Djourou were amazing. Not just in their play but they were jeeing up the other players and shouting instructions at everyone. A post-Gallas partnership?

That's always sad to see. Team up against it and looking for a goal, suddenly a few muppets think it's wise to have a go at a player who's just come on.

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

Well DOUBLE-YOU, the way I see it, you have to balance the midfield, and that doesn't mean play the most defensive collection of players that you can find. Not only do you have to balance attributes like 'size', you also have to balance the attacking and defensive side of the game, and today we did not do that.

The evidence on the pitch was pretty obvious, unless you saw today's game differently?

i think in our situation, we have to avoid defeat. bolton were never going to come out and attack, but they were likely to try and catch us on the break, so we needed a midfield that would be able to deal with this threat and the threat from set-pieces. i am not a fan of eboue, but he can add more in those situations than vela or ramsey. as i mentioned bolton came to defend and try and nick a point.

if we started with

vela denilson ramsey and nasri

who would we bring on to change the game when it is still 0-0 after 70 mins?
personally i don't think vela should start in midfield. he is a forward. i dont think he can do a midfielders job.

 

[asajoseph]

The reality of the situation is that we have to beat teams like Bolton, at home, especially when Aston Villa have already won.

If your ambition doesn't stretch any further than avoiding defeat against outfits like this, then we'll do no better than midtable this season.

Bolton were never going to catch us on the break either - they have absolutely no pace in that side, so I've no idea how they were planning on doing that. And Eboue adding from set pieces? HE was ****e on set pieces even when he was playing in defence - he adds absolutely nothing from those situations, that's just flat out wrong.

Who would we bring on to change the game? Who says we'd be so desperate to change the game anyway?

 

[kel varnsen]

Denilson can never win with the fans, if he has a good attacking game they criticize his inability to play the holding role, when he plays the holding role he's criticised for not being creative enough. If that was Flamini there today everyone would call it a solid performance.

playing the "defensive role" against a bolton who had no interest in attacking is hardly a great achievement. i thought he was useless today. his passing game is atrocious. far too slow, far too sloppy and not enough variation.

 

[JGooner]

That was the coldest I have ever been at a football game. Thoughts:

1. We are sooooooooo boring. I thought all the hype about us being beautiful to watch had been overplayed in recent seasons (we were much more entertaining when we played the high-speed game a few years ago, and we also actually won stuff) but this season we've reached another level of tedium.

2. Diaby was appalling and I'm rapidly abandoning any hope that he will become a top CM. I know he has wondrous ball skills, but so do countless kids who never make professional careers (let alone a career at Arsenal) because they have no game-sense. Diaby is dopey beyond belief. Unfortunately, Denilson is as bad (albeit in different ways), and I don't think Ramsey is anywhere near ready. Song might actually be the least worst DCM option until we actually buy genuine quality in that position, though that would require Wenger to recognise the problem in the first place.

3. I salute RvP. His all-round game, which I derided a couple of moths ago (I think after a CL game, when he was truly shocking), is excellent at the moment. It seems he's gaining the maturity to hum consistently throughout a game rather than produce the occasional "bang!"

4. I hope nobody here objects to our goal today on the basis that it came from a cross, which I know some of us regard as unholy, unWengerian and unforgivably Anglo-Saxon.

5. Bendtner was given a hard time by the crowd but Adebayor wasn't really applauded off very enthusiastically either. His miss in the second half was like a microcosm of his myriad flaws (I'm not denying he has great strengths too) and should be shown to anyone who compares him Torres, Drogba or any other genuinely blue-chip striker.

 

[DOUBLE-YOU]

The reality of the situation is that we have to beat teams like Bolton, at home, especially when Aston Villa have already won.

If your ambition doesn't stretch any further than avoiding defeat against outfits like this, then we'll do no better than midtable this season.

Bolton were never going to catch us on the break either - they have absolutely no pace in that side, so I've no idea how they were planning on doing that. And Eboue adding from set pieces? HE was s***e on set pieces even when he was playing in defence - he adds absolutely nothing from those situations, that's just flat out wrong.

Who would we bring on to change the game? Who says we'd be so desperate to change the game anyway?

when i said avoid defeat, it was a poor turn of phrase. obviously we want to win and have to win but when we must not leave ourself too attack minded, especially when with such an inexperienced squad. we have dropped too many points because our defensive balance is wrong.

of the four you pick denilson would be the most defensive and he is a player who often loses his runner. its ridiculously attack minded.
i think because the balance isn't right ou fullbacks don't go forward like they used to.

 

[hackajack]

. I hope nobody here objects to our goal today on the basis that it came from a cross, which I know some of us regard as unholy, unWengerian and unforgivably Anglo-Saxon.

It wasn't an Anglo-Saxon cross though was it? Bang it in the box and hope for the best. It was a measured pass that happened to go across the field.

 

[DaGunners]

Denilson can never win with the fans, if he has a good attacking game they criticize his inability to play the holding role, when he plays the holding role he's criticised for not being creative enough. If that was Flamini there today everyone would call it a solid performance.

playing the "defensive role" against a bolton who had no interest in attacking is hardly a great achievement. i thought he was useless today. his passing game is atrocious. far too slow, far too sloppy and not enough variation.

What do you expect when everyone is so ****ing static?

 

[JGooner]

. I hope nobody here objects to our goal today on the basis that it came from a cross, which I know some of us regard as unholy, unWengerian and unforgivably Anglo-Saxon.

It wasn't an Anglo-Saxon cross though was it? Bang it in the box and hope for the best. It was a measured pass that happened to go across the field.

I agree, but that's what a good cross is. Nobody is advocating aimless aerial punts, and we get plenty of those from Clichy anyway (another one today). Acurrate crosses into dangerous zones are an indispensable part of any trophy-winning team's attacking options, because you cannot always break down two banks of four with pass-and-move.

 

[General]

I also thought the ref was going to give Ramsey his marching orders for that tackle when he went into his front pocket. Haven't seen it again but It looked a poor studs up tackle. Not that it merited a red.

It wasn't an Anglo-Saxon cross though was it? Bang it in the box and hope for the best. It was a measured pass that happened to go across the field.

Yeah, it looked more of a measured pass than a cross. And it was planted in Bendy's path to tuck away. Crowd would've murdered him if he hadn't.

 

[patrick42uk]

Diaby was pretty atrocious I have to say which is disappointing. I had high hopes for him, but now I feel signing a CM might be just as necessary as signing Arshavin.

In games like this, you feel the 80k a week Ade gets paid is a slap in the face. I think in a well functioning side, he might be a useful cog but he lacks the sort of spark to lift a team which is what a player getting paid at the top end of our wage structure should. I'm all for selling him now to be honest.

The sooner we get some pace, penetration and invention from wide the better. Nasri looks best at the moment centrally and we have absolutely nothing wide. Eboue still looks a full back to me and certainly not someone who should be entrusted with a good chunk of responsibility for our attacking moves as is the case now.

Credit to Arsène for being brave with his substitutions. For once he made the right moves; moving Nasri central and bring on Vela and Bendtner wide was common sense as was taking Ade off for Ramsey when we scored. He's not always that reliable with his substitutions.

I'm pleased with the form of RVP and Nasri. Add Arshavin to the mix and we should have enough firepower to see us through. Hopefully one of Vela or Bedntner can improve enough to take Ade's place.

 

[ricky1985]

Tell me what you believe Denilson's strengths are then please mate.

Well firstly I think he's a very intelligent player, he's almost always composed and he does things quickly. I think he's extremely hard working and has a great engine. Contrary to popular opinion he's actually quite creative when he isn't deployed at DM. He's quick, he's technically excellent. And he always appears to be improving.

However he isn't ready for our first 11 yet and he isn't a suitable partner for Cesc but he is the best central midfielder we currently have available.

I'd agree on most of that. He is very composed, and cool in possession (sometimes bordering on casual), he is very hard working, and has proven catergorically he has a great engine.
Notice how you didn't list tracking of runners, tackling, positioning, or defensive awareness, qs, and that is the problem I have with him. Denilson is playing perhaps the most vital role in our team, the position of defensive midfielder is fundemntal to how we function as a team, and he can't successfully carry out the defensive side of his position.

I do feel he is good enough going forward, and it is more of an attitude of mind (he has in his head to just keep it simple) as opposed to a lack of tecnical ability.

The fact is Denilson's defensive ineptitude is costing the team big time at the moment, and the fact that he doesn't really contribute an amazing amount going forward, isn't making up for it.

Let me just say I think Denilson has the potential to be a very good midfielder one day. When he learns a bit more about the game.

 

[patrick42uk]

I dont think you could have really predicted the way oloton would set their stall out. The way we are set up now in midfield with Diaby and Denilson in the same line, close to each other, is in order to give much needed stability centrally. I always felt that this was probably the only positive that could come out of losing Cesc for so long. However, that costs us creatively and that is amplified when a team takes the attitude Bolton did. Perharps he could have made his moves at half time but Arsène responded in the right ways to the problem.

Kolo Toure by the way is a time bomb. I'm not really sure what game Arsène is playing there.

 

[ricky1985]

Feck it was cold today.

Anyway, we've just seen exactly why Arshavin or someone of that ilk is required (as well as a central midfielder). The pass-pass-pass-cross-clearance-pass-pass-pass-cross-clearance game that we seem to play without Cesc and Theo is struggling to break teams with any type of defensive stability and the movement from the forwards bar Robin was next to nothing. Diaby, Eboue and Denilson offered no creativity and until Vela came on it looked like we weren't going to score. Van Persie was our best player by far and Ade played worse than I've seen from him since he was partnered with Baptista. Credit to Bendtner today, got a goal despite boos and jeers from the crowd.
Touré and Djourou were amazing. Not just in their play but they were jeeing up the other players and shouting instructions at everyone. A post-Gallas partnership?

Oh and the crowd were great in the second half. Really got behind the team (except for Bendtner) and gave support when things looked bad instead of boos.

Interesting points.

The crowd sounded brilliant on the stream I was watching, especially around the 60th minute mark.

I am particularly intrigued by your points about Toure and Djourou. It's great to hear they are taking some responsibility. Especially Djourou, who seems to have made a quantum leap forward, in terms of maturity, this season.

 

[Classy_Gunner]

I didnt like it .We cant only have two creative sparks in our side ,we need more. Nasri and Persie was quiet good as there form has been good in the last few weeks but i did expect more from the players who should of been as creative as they should of been. But if we get Arshavin we probably would have more creativity in the middle. The competition for places would be unbelivable as we will have several quality players fighting in out for a 1st team place. We werent good.

 

[hackajack]

Yeah, it looked more of a measured pass than a cross. And it was planted in Bendy's path to tuck away. Crowd would've murdered him if he hadn't.

It was a good finish there was still plenty to do. Shut a few people round me up anyway.