EPL : Arsenal vs Aston Villa | 27/12/09, 13:30 | SS1

[kamikaze80]

asa's not saying we should get rid, just that eddie's in horrific form, which he is, and we can't afford to squander chances. eddie needs to sack up and find his mojo. his injury is irrelevant, it was years ago and eddie had already recovered from it and looked fine.

 

[Klaus Daimler]

He hasn't had much chance to build a momentum though. He's yet to make three consecutive starts this season, for example. There have been a lot of small muscular injuries along the way and Wenger has rested him as much as possible to prevent further injuries.

 

[Anzac]

I still don't think that what Cesc provided yesterday was something only a star individual could do. The passes he made yesterday were by and large, simple link up moves that we can certainly expect from Diaby and Denilson. His off the ball movement is the type of movement that one should really be expecting. It's not hard to find space on the pitch, if you actually try and find it. As for the free kick and the finish for the 2nd, those were world class and game changing.

The movement, the build up play, the awareness and the workrate are traits you would expect from any professional player in this Arsenal team.

I'm not underrating Cesc's performance at all, I thought it was absolutely brilliant to watch and you don't get much better. I just feel that those particular traits are not ones that are reserved for world class players.

The free kick is the type of free kick we came to expect from van Persie a couple of seasons ago, but have since stopped seeing. The crucial touch for the second goal is the sort of clinical touch we came to expect from Eduardo and have again, ceased to see lately.

What Cesc did yesterday was breathtaking to watch, but I just can't help feel that he came on with more hunger, more leadership, more desire and far more hunger than any other player on that pitch and ultimately did the job of midfielder, defender and striker better than any of the other players in those positions. Now he is back out again, does this mean that we'll carry on seeing a limp Arshavin? a non-effective Eduardo? a quiet Diaby?

Yes, we're not the only one man team in the premiership. But United can perform better without Ronaldo than us without Cesc, Chelsea can perform better without Lampard than us without Cesc. Liverpool can't perform better without Gerrard than us without Cesc. But they are so far out of the title race, it goes to show how important that player is to them.

When Gerrard plays, he practically pulls the team through by himself, Torres the exception. When Cesc plays, our other experienced players just simply 'wake up'. My problem is why the f**k do they have to wake up?

Watching the game, the commentator went on about how when Cesc comes on, Arshavin is 'activated'. So clearly its not just me who sees this. The answer is too bloody easy to see how the problem can be fixed and its not a case of 'keep Cesc injury free'. If we have players who can't be motivated to perform when Cesc isn't around, then I am seriously scared ****less at the thought of Cesc leaving.

Agreed with this, and this is what I had alluded to as a concern earlier in regards to a lack of creativity in the midfield trio. IMO this is a consequence of having 3 primary roles with the CMs = holding, B2B & attacking, as opposed to a more versatile system like Barca.

 

[sabret00the]

Yesterday wasn't a question of Cesc finding space, it was about the spaces he found and how he was attempting to exploit said space. Denilson finds space all day long, but does he attempt to exploit it in the same way? No and the reason that is because his mind set is to facilitate the movement of the ball rather than securing the goal. Ramsey looks to exploit movement in the same way.

Now I know some people took issue with what I said about Diaby doing a whole lot of nothing but the fact of the matter is he just isn't able to do what Cesc done. He can have fantastic games like the one previous to this, but this wasn't of the same calibre. He was unable to drive our game forward and once Cesc sapped their morale, he was able to provide some of his magic. Handy squad option but shouldn't be starting for me and nothing of this game lead me to think otherwise.

 

[Timleaf]

I still don't think that what Cesc provided yesterday was something only a star individual could do. The passes he made yesterday were by and large, simple link up moves that we can certainly expect from Diaby and Denilson. His off the ball movement is the type of movement that one should really be expecting. It's not hard to find space on the pitch, if you actually try and find it. As for the free kick and the finish for the 2nd, those were world class and game changing.

The movement, the build up play, the awareness and the workrate are traits you would expect from any professional player in this Arsenal team.

I'm not underrating Cesc's performance at all, I thought it was absolutely brilliant to watch and you don't get much better. I just feel that those particular traits are not ones that are reserved for world class players.

Sorry, but those are precisely the traits of world class, star individual players. Making things that everyone else is struggling with look easy, looking as though you have far more time than anyone else etc, etc. It's not that he gives simple passes, it's that the weight and angles of his passes are exactly right, that he has a picture of the game in his head that very few other players have, knowing instinctively when to take one, two or three touches and which side of the pitch to attack down at any given moment. He can see moves developing three or four passes before they happen, which is why his movement is so good and often results in him getting the ball.

Watch any great player, 90% of what you'll see them do will be the simple parts of the game done expertly well.

 

[General]

Some of the comments before and after the game just shows how polarised this forum can become at times. Apparently we went from not having a hope in hell to becoming a one man team within the space of a single game. Let's leave the lazy punditry to the tabloids folks! Without downplaying Cesc’s input, this was very much a collective effort. He was on the pitch when we laboured to a miserable loss against the same opposition last season. Wenger has clearly learned his lesson by not sending the team out to over-impose our game without establishing control first, leaving us vulnerable to the sucker punch. You can draw all sorts of conclusions from the result but collectively we were very sound, asides the obvious wastefulness in front of goal. There was a moment after the first goal when Villa looked like they could get back in it but we got men behind the ball and defended superbly. The danger of them orchestrating another smash and grab was always there but they were reduced to nothing more than long hoofs. This was probably one of the few games this season where we’ve come close to functioning completely as a unit against solid opposition but I guess some just cannot see beyond the scoreboard.

 

[MDGoonah41]

Its almost embarrassing to see the way some fans react to this team. Its like crying on a sunny day because you know that its going to rain again some day.

We beat the #4 side in the country by 3 goals, despite our best player only playing 20 minutes, and our best striker still being hurt. We outplayed them for most of the game. They had chances, but they're not Wolves, or Hull, or some 3rd rate team that its criminal to give chances to. In past encounters, their pace has shredded us, and Carew has manhandled our spine. Yesterday, none of that happened.

Cheer up guys, I'm sure we'll drop points again in the future and those tears will be understandable.

 

[AliBabaBrewer]

This and Hull game have been our first back-to-back clean sheets since September.

Whilst not a great statistic to bust out, it's a nice change!

 

[Floating]

This and Hull game have been our first back-to-back clean sheets since September.

Whilst not a great statistic to bust out, it's a nice change!

Oh wow, excellent to know that! Hopefully Almunia and the rest of our back 4 can take confidence from this going into this difficult stretch of games.

 

[kamikaze80]

the fact of the matter is he just isn't able to do what Cesc done. He can have fantastic games like the one previous to this, but this wasn't of the same calibre.

i'm not sure who you're arguing against because no one thinks he's as good as fabregas, who is one of the 5 best midfielders in the world. and obviously, he is quite a different player from fabregas, anyway. i mean, look at vieira and fabregas - two hugely influential players playing the same position who went about it in very different ways.

i agree with you that diaby, even on his best form if he fulfills his potential, couldn't dictate a midfield like fabregas, but there are also things he can do that fabregas can't, and it's important that we have players who can bring those other ingredients to the table, rather than players who can't do a single thing better than fabregas.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

asa's not saying we should get rid, just that eddie's in horrific form, which he is, and we can't afford to squander chances. eddie needs to sack up and find his mojo. his injury is irrelevant, it was years ago and eddie had already recovered from it and looked fine.

Can you recall any period after his injury that he has had a good run of games? He needs that and hopefully in that run of games he can bag a couple of goals..to restore his confidence. I think Wenger is doing the right thing by keeping him there especially in this good run. Its the best opportunity for him to regain his confidence. He just doesnt have the confidence.

 

[redanddread]

Some of the comments before and after the game just shows how polarised this forum can become at times. Apparently we went from not having a hope in hell to becoming a one man team within the space of a single game. Let's leave the lazy punditry to the tabloids folks! Without downplaying Cesc’s input, this was very much a collective effort. He was on the pitch when we laboured to a miserable loss against the same opposition last season. Wenger has clearly learned his lesson by not sending the team out to over-impose our game without establishing control first, leaving us vulnerable to the sucker punch. You can draw all sorts of conclusions from the result but collectively we were very sound, asides the obvious wastefulness in front of goal. There was a moment after the first goal when Villa looked like they could get back in it but we got men behind the ball and defended superbly. The danger of them orchestrating another smash and grab was always there but they were reduced to nothing more than long hoofs. This was probably one of the few games this season where we’ve come close to functioning completely as a unit against solid opposition but I guess some just cannot see beyond the scoreboard.

well ****ing said mate!

 

[sabret00the]

the fact of the matter is he just isn't able to do what Cesc done. He can have fantastic games like the one previous to this, but this wasn't of the same calibre.

i'm not sure who you're arguing against because no one thinks he's as good as fabregas, who is one of the 5 best midfielders in the world. and obviously, he is quite a different player from fabregas, anyway. i mean, look at vieira and fabregas - two hugely influential players playing the same position who went about it in very different ways.

i agree with you that diaby, even on his best form if he fulfills his potential, couldn't dictate a midfield like fabregas, but there are also things he can do that fabregas can't, and it's important that we have players who can bring those other ingredients to the table, rather than players who can't do a single thing better than fabregas.

I wasn't so much comparing the players but more so the role and the outlet. I think if there's one thing I've learned during this possession years, it's that controlling the ball in the middle of the park is a vastly different story to controlling the game. And that's the difference I'm highlighting.

Don't get me wrong. As General pointed out, we've failed to do what Fabregas facilitated even with him in the team, but I feel like it's more of an uphill struggle when he isn't there. Or tell-a-lie, I feel that the balance was wrong. We were all about power and asserting ourselves but didn't have a dedicated creative outlet. I'd like us to have gone into the game with Ramsey in for Diaby. I feel we could've controlled the actual game and had our fun of shots. Though of course, then we sacrifice the ability to put ourselves about in favour of a passing game and perhaps that would've meant that Villa's morale stuck for longer, but it would've been one less vital injury.

In regards to Diaby, as I said, he's a squad player and his alternative for me at least is Denilson. It should be either/or but both and I rate Denilson ten times higher.

 

[ricky1985]

Wow, just watched the second half on ATVO again, we really played some stupendously good, quick passing football. And Diaby was outstanding in all aspects - passing, tackling, closing down, concentration, movement.

I felt we were dominant when watching it live, but when you watch it back you realise just how dominant we were.

 

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

the fact of the matter is he just isn't able to do what Cesc done. He can have fantastic games like the one previous to this, but this wasn't of the same calibre.

i'm not sure who you're arguing against because no one thinks he's as good as fabregas, who is one of the 5 best midfielders in the world. and obviously, he is quite a different player from fabregas, anyway. i mean, look at vieira and fabregas - two hugely influential players playing the same position who went about it in very different ways.

i agree with you that diaby, even on his best form if he fulfills his potential, couldn't dictate a midfield like fabregas, but there are also things he can do that fabregas can't, and it's important that we have players who can bring those other ingredients to the table, rather than players who can't do a single thing better than fabregas.

I wasn't so much comparing the players but more so the role and the outlet. I think if there's one thing I've learned during this possession years, it's that controlling the ball in the middle of the park is a vastly different story to controlling the game. And that's the difference I'm highlighting.

Don't get me wrong. As General pointed out, we've failed to do what Fabregas facilitated even with him in the team, but I feel like it's more of an uphill struggle when he isn't there. Or tell-a-lie, I feel that the balance was wrong. We were all about power and asserting ourselves but didn't have a dedicated creative outlet. I'd like us to have gone into the game with Ramsey in for Diaby. I feel we could've controlled the actual game and had our fun of shots. Though of course, then we sacrifice the ability to put ourselves about in favour of a passing game and perhaps that would've meant that Villa's morale stuck for longer, but it would've been one less vital injury.

In regards to Diaby, as I said, he's a squad player and his alternative for me at least is Denilson. It should be either/or but both and I rate Denilson ten times higher.

We controlled the game against a very good Villa side and you are saying our balance was wrong. Our balance has never been as close to being right as on Sunday with the players we had on the pitch. I think we had the right balance especially in the middle.

I just dont see how Ramsey for Diaby would have made us any better. Mate, its allowed to agree without inserting another "but" and moving from one issue to another.

BTW dont confuse the brilliance of Cesc with the inadequacy of our midfield. He is a special player, one who will be missed by any team. But we played very well against Villa prior to Cesc coming in. Actually that was my biggest satisfaction for that day.

 

[patrick42uk]

Impressed by Vermalen's pace in tha race with Agbonlahor.

 

[kamikaze80]

Can you recall any period after his injury that he has had a good run of games? He needs that and hopefully in that run of games he can bag a couple of goals..to restore his confidence.

true, he's suffered from niggly injuries but he scored some nice goals and looked like the nippy eduardo of old when he did play. it's not as if he's just been awful ever since the injury - if that were the case, i'd be more worried.

 

[Floating]

Impressed by Vermalen's pace in tha race with Agbonlahor.

Yes! Here you go.

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