EPL : Arsenal vs Aston Villa | 27/12/09, 13:30 | SS1

[Armor for Sleep]

I expected Nasri to provide some of that offensive drive but he's not up to it right now.

I think he can if he is played as part of the midfield 3. Infact i would play Nasri there anytime Cesc is unavailable or in need of a rest as he seems the best alternative to give us that creativity. Problem is at the minute we have too many injuries in the forward positions although having said that i'm not sure Wenger would view Nasri as a midfielder even if we had everyone fit.

 

[fabo]

I expected Nasri to provide some of that offensive drive but he's not up to it right now.

I think he can if he is played as part of the midfield 3. Infact i would play Nasri there anytime Cesc is unavailable or in need of a rest as he seems the best alternative to give us that creativity. Problem is at the minute we have too many injuries in the forward positions although having said that i'm not sure Wenger would view Nasri as a midfielder even if we had everyone fit.

He has the tools but doesn't use them to the full for whatever reason. He's actually had very few good games in an arsenal shirt.

 

[Anzac]

I thought DDS did their job well before Cesc came on. We've become accustomed to having this ubber creative visionary in the middle of the pitch. But we didn't have that in our previous league winning teams, yet we now see it as a necessity. It shouldn't be if the forward players do their jobs properly. The reality is that most teams don't have that level of creative vision in the middle of the pitch, but they still win matches. United don't have it, in fact their preferred midfield is currently pretty dull. Chelsea don't have it. They have some really good players(Essien, Lampard..etc), but they don't have a creative force. And Liverpool certainly don't have it.

Our problem was more with the front three. It was the same issue we had when we played Sunderland. The movement of the front three and the desire to get in behind the opposition team wasn't strong enough. Pat Rice even started yelling at the players about it during the game yesterday. While I like him, for me Nasri embodies this problem more than anyone. Good player, but he doesn't penetrate the opposition defense enough and let's us fall into the pass-pass-pass trap.

In our previous league winning teams we had a creative visionary in the forward line in DB10, and we played the ball forward a lot quicker than we do now - the end result being that BOTH our respective playmakers got on the ball about the same time in our play. This season RVP is playing a similar role in the forward line so as to give us more options as well as Cesc.

The issues with the front 3 are about movement, supply, our patterns, the position of our primary playmaker in midfield and the balance of the playing XI.

Most other teams are not top4 PL & Q/F CL quality, yet most other elite teams DO have a creative influence OR a very strong system with strong players.

 

[celestis]

What I found interesting in the match is the combinations that have emerged - Nasri-Diaby are a good combine well and Cesc-Arshavin. Arshavin seems to come alive when Cesc comes on .

 

[sabret00the]

I look at this team and feel that if we had one proper striker, a guy with size who can hold up play, we're as good a bet as Chelsea to win the league. There's still room on my Dzeko bandwagon. Put him up top, with Arshavin and Nasri off of him, and then we'll have to roll with Diaby, Cesc and Denilson in the midfield while Song is gone, with Ramsey able to play if Cesc has to miss a game or two.

Put a pure goalscorer with link up play up top, and we'll be there right until the end in 3 competitions.

A sober Adriano would fit the bill

I still think Simpson could do the job.

 

[Armor for Sleep]

He has the tools but doesn't use them to the full for whatever reason. He's actually had very few good games in an arsenal shirt.

I think there's a big difference between the roles though. As i said in another thread, he's a bit in limbo in his current position - trying to come deep and influence play while also trying to offer some end product as one of the front 3.

 

[celestis]

What I found interesting in the match is the combinations that have emerged - Nasri-Diaby combine well and Cesc-Arshavin. Arshavin seems to come alive when Cesc comes on .

 

[General]

I'm very sceptical about Nasri playing CM. The talent is obviously there but he currently hasn't the needed cutting edge or work ethic to play there. Wenger tried it towards the end of last season and I don't think it worked. I find his affinity for low percentage play extremely annoying, especially the countless times he drifts inside and just slides the ball out wide to Sagna, effectively leaving him in a cul-de-sac. I'd be more inclined to give Ramsey a run against Pompey before considering him.

 

[Anzac]

I'm very sceptical about Nasri playing CM. The talent is obviously there but he currently hasn't the needed cutting edge or work ethic to play there. Wenger tried it towards the end of last season and I don't think it worked. I find his affinity for low percentage play extremely annoying, especially the countless times he drifts inside and just slides the ball out wide to Sagna, effectively leaving him in a cul-de-sac. I'd be more inclined to give Ramsey a run against Pompey before considering him.

This is essentially how we play on the flanks & has been for some time. Sagna doesn't need to hit the crosses as early as he does from level with the area & IMO he'd be more effective if he took the ball deeper & hit it across the 6 yard box at waist height, or he could pull the ball back towards the spot.

 

[ricky1985]

Chamakh is not what this team needs right now, we need a striker who can score and will happily work his bollocks off for the team.

Chamakh is one of the hardest working strikers in Europe, and he scored 13 goals in 25 starts last season. Disregarding that though his link play is absolutely top class, and he has fantastic technical ability. If we can get Adebayor to score 30 goals in a season it's not impossible to do the same with Chamakh.

 

[Thommybhoy]

I know he is, just that I'm not sure this one was it, I'll have to check the replay. But what do I care, this is Song's 1st yellow and I don't care about A.Young.

It was - he threw his leg across Song to make some contact and dived. Enjoy the replay! :mrgreen:

I stand corrected, it was a dive.

 

[sammy89]

Chamakh is not what this team needs right now, we need a striker who can score and will happily work his bollocks off for the team.

Actually, Chamakh is on a par with Tevez in terms of workrate, if you ask me. I'd refrain from commenting on players who I haven't seen if I were you. I'd also go ahead and watch some Bordeaux games. They are having a smashing season.

 

[irishgunnerz]

To be honest alot of the criticism is way over the top. used to it from Kel (at least you know what you get) but think ditto Fabo.

All teams by and large rely on a star individual - you only have to look at United sans Ronaldo to see just how much a team can suffer when that player is unavailable - especially when that player is in CM

Imagine a Chelsea without Lampard, Liverpool without Gerard.

Looking both at Villa's form, and their performances against the others of the big 3...and seeing that DDS by and large coped well and didn't buckle (as some thought they would prior to the game *cough cough* Asa *cough cough) it was a relatively positive sign. Indeed had Eduardo taken that early on then perhaps the necessity for Fabregas would not have arisen.

People are also forgetting that with RVP we had to push Andrei further forward, where his creativity is not necessarily at its most productive.

Nasri's situation is more complex - I know General you believe he doesn't have the work ethic...and based on this year I'd agree. He's been caught out once or twice and never tried track back...but he IS capable of it. I remember the Liverpool at Anfield game last year in particular where he put in a mammoth shift. Tracked back, hassled, harried - remember at one stage he tracked back Mascherano 30 yards but shoulder charging him off the ball...I still go misty eyed at the recocllection one of our players actually could do that. But kinda have to remember he hasnt really played CM for us all that much so its obvious he wouldnt excel in that position immediately.

 

[General]

I'm very sceptical about Nasri playing CM. The talent is obviously there but he currently hasn't the needed cutting edge or work ethic to play there. Wenger tried it towards the end of last season and I don't think it worked. I find his affinity for low percentage play extremely annoying, especially the countless times he drifts inside and just slides the ball out wide to Sagna, effectively leaving him in a cul-de-sac. I'd be more inclined to give Ramsey a run against Pompey before considering him.

This is essentially how we play on the flanks & has been for some time. Sagna doesn't need to hit the crosses as early as he does from level with the area & IMO he'd be more effective if he took the ball deeper & hit it across the 6 yard box at waist height, or he could pull the ball back towards the spot.

This is true to some extent Anzac but Arshavin (or Eboue/Theo on one of their better days) more often than not uses his directness to take players out before bringing the full backs into play. He displaces players. Nasri just slides the ball wide to Sagna leaving him easily double teamed and this makes us very easy to compress.For Sagna to try and take the ball deeper would be doing Nasri's job. A bit more directness to his play definitely wouldn't go amiss (Nasri that is) and this inevitably involves some lung work.

 

[asajoseph]

So pleased with the result. To score 3 against the league's best defence is no mean feat.

Two randoms thoughts:

1) Is there a midfielder in the world you'd swap Cesc for? Xavi comes close, but Cesc is a full 7 years younger. Phenomenal.

2) I still think Eduardo should be played through the middle. I really, really rate him, and he'll come good soon. He's too good not to.

1) Cesc, for my money, is a better player than Xavi playing in a tougher league. I wouldn't swap him for anyone at Barca.

2) Eduardo's finishing would be terrible wherever he's playing, and he doesn't add enough of anything else to be starting at all at the moment.

 

[Swish]

I still don't think that what Cesc provided yesterday was something only a star individual could do. The passes he made yesterday were by and large, simple link up moves that we can certainly expect from Diaby and Denilson. His off the ball movement is the type of movement that one should really be expecting. It's not hard to find space on the pitch, if you actually try and find it. As for the free kick and the finish for the 2nd, those were world class and game changing.

The movement, the build up play, the awareness and the workrate are traits you would expect from any professional player in this Arsenal team.

I'm not underrating Cesc's performance at all, I thought it was absolutely brilliant to watch and you don't get much better. I just feel that those particular traits are not ones that are reserved for world class players.

The free kick is the type of free kick we came to expect from van Persie a couple of seasons ago, but have since stopped seeing. The crucial touch for the second goal is the sort of clinical touch we came to expect from Eduardo and have again, ceased to see lately.

What Cesc did yesterday was breathtaking to watch, but I just can't help feel that he came on with more hunger, more leadership, more desire and far more hunger than any other player on that pitch and ultimately did the job of midfielder, defender and striker better than any of the other players in those positions. Now he is back out again, does this mean that we'll carry on seeing a limp Arshavin? a non-effective Eduardo? a quiet Diaby?

Yes, we're not the only one man team in the premiership. But United can perform better without Ronaldo than us without Cesc, Chelsea can perform better without Lampard than us without Cesc. Liverpool can't perform better without Gerrard than us without Cesc. But they are so far out of the title race, it goes to show how important that player is to them.

When Gerrard plays, he practically pulls the team through by himself, Torres the exception. When Cesc plays, our other experienced players just simply 'wake up'. My problem is why the **** do they have to wake up?

Watching the game, the commentator went on about how when Cesc comes on, Arshavin is 'activated'. So clearly its not just me who sees this. The answer is too bloody easy to see how the problem can be fixed and its not a case of 'keep Cesc injury free'. If we have players who can't be motivated to perform when Cesc isn't around, then I am seriously scared ****less at the thought of Cesc leaving.

 

[Swish]

So pleased with the result. To score 3 against the league's best defence is no mean feat.

Two randoms thoughts:

1) Is there a midfielder in the world you'd swap Cesc for? Xavi comes close, but Cesc is a full 7 years younger. Phenomenal.

2) I still think Eduardo should be played through the middle. I really, really rate him, and he'll come good soon. He's too good not to.

1) Cesc, for my money, is a better player than Xavi playing in a tougher league. I wouldn't swap him for anyone at Barca.

2) Eduardo's finishing would be terrible wherever he's playing, and he doesn't add enough of anything else to be starting at all at the moment.

Injury free obviously counts for more than being injured.

 

[asajoseph]

Not sure I follow that.

Bottom line at the moment is that Eduardo can't finish. In fact, he's probably the last player in our front 6 I'd want getting on the end of a chance right now.

He needs to pull himself together, really.

 

[thegame24]

Cesc for me is the best player in the world at present time.

Also in a world eleven id have no doubts that fabs would perform, ronaldo and messi can be shackled but fabs will always perform.

 

[Swish]

Not sure I follow that.

Bottom line at the moment is that Eduardo can't finish. In fact, he's probably the last player in our front 6 I'd want getting on the end of a chance right now.

He needs to pull himself together, really.

The reason he starts is because there is no-one else free to play there.

I agree, his finishing is absolutely woeful right now and it's clear the player is completely out of confidence. But with more experience and more games, his finishing will hopefully improve.

The guy spent more than a year out with a horrific leg break which could have left him never running/walking again. But he worked at getting back to do what wasn't expected and we, for more than a year, supported him through that dreadful time. Least we could do is support a little longer for the young Crozillian.