EPL : Arsenal vs Aston Villa | 27/12/09, 13:30 | SS1

[Mbaki Mutahaba]

Is anybody else deeply worried that we have an entire squad that can only limp along through games unless Fabregas is on the pitch? Arshavin, Nasri, Eduardo, Diaby et all only come to life when Fabregas is on the pitch.

Why? Because after watching the game yesterday, everybody in this team, as creative as we thought, just spends time waiting for the ball. The only reason Fabregas completely destroyed Villa yesterday was because he was the ONLY player that was making a run and dropping back if he lost himself as an option.

Watch the replays, when someone else is on the ball, you'll see Fabregas move all around the pitch, following the player with the ball, moving all the time to give him a clear cut option. Cesc would run forward and if he was cut out or close to being marked, he would run backwards. No other player did this, which is fairly bloody basic to be honest.

As soon as Cesc was on the ball, the players around him who should know a lot bloody better were still not providing a decent enough option, they were just lucky that Cesc can find a pass better than most. That's why Denilson, Song, Diaby don't link the play up to the front very well, because they don't have the ability to play Cesc type balls.

It's players like Nasri, Eduardo and Arshavin who are completely to blame as well. None of them ever run to find space, they all expect the ball at their feet yet provide no help to the midfield to play it to them.

It's a problem that has existed for quite some time now. It's for that reason alone that we miss Bendtner and van Persie. At least Nik and Robin come deep to look for the ball as opposed to sitting on the last man and expecting a wonderball from the likes of Denilson (who doesn't do passing forward, but ball retention) or Diaby (who can't pass, only try and take people on) or even Song (who tries more than the other two, but operates from a deeper position and usually misplaces the ball).

Fabregas is having a ball in the middle of the park at the moment because he is effectively playing Robin van Persie's role to perfection going forward. Get forward and find ample space, it's not bloody rocket science.

To be fair, Cesc is on the free role... wiht space to move around. Others due have additional responsiblity just in case we loose that ball so they are a little bit restricted. I am responding strictly on the off the ball movement.

 

[Swish]

We've always operated with a 'looks can be decieving' Free Role mantra for all positions. Cesc doesn't play free role, Cesc plays playmaker. Cesc hangs around the middle, his job is to keep the play moving and to help link the ball up to the forward position.

If there is space in front of him, he'll move into it. Just like Denilson and Diaby would. Whoever goes forward knows that whoever is behind, stays behind. This is why I don't believe in the AM and DM positions we had in the 4-4-2 system. It's simple, both CM's were allowed to go forward, as long as the other would cover.

Right now, both CM's can play a 'free role' going forward when space is available because Song can cover. Hell, even Gallas was given space a couple of times yesterday and found himself in the final third looking to give the final ball. Song in the team allows this.

Cesc has no more divine right to push forward than Diaby or Denilson. It's just that Cesc is better at it.

What Cesc did yesterday is not akin to his role, its akin to his determination. He made runs that Arshavin and Eduardo should have been making. He made runs that Denilson and Diaby should have been making.

He made those runs because right now, he is the only attacking player we have who has the confidence to do that. Although, Diaby is upping his game a hell of a lot lately and its great to see him playing with assured confidence.

 

[Clrnc]

Cesc impact is being very overrated by us tbh. We did play well in the first half, and missed a few easy chances

 

[Swish]

Cesc impact is being very overrated by us tbh. We did play well in the first half, and missed a few easy chances

Not at all. The difference between this team with Cesc and without Cesc was made crystal clear yesterday. For the first 57 minutes, our link up play just wasn't working. The strikers were being found wanting and our midfield was just stuck looking for them.

Cesc replaced one cog in a machine that wasn't turning properly and got the whole team to pick up. As soon as Cesc got on the pitch, he fought tooth and nail for every ball, he harried every player that came near him, he played it quickly to those around him, he always gave them an option to keep the move going, he picked at some wonderpasses to keep the ball moving forward. The whole team sparked into life after seeing Cesc lead by example.

Cesc's impact is being very underrated by you tbh.

 

[ricky1985]

- Vermaelen is so good it's scary, and the pace he showed to keep up with Agbonlahor was absolutely incredible.

Interesting observation. I was thinking the exact same thing earlier. Is it just me or has he gotten faster since he arrived? It certainly feels that way to me. Perhaps it's adapting to tougher training and a higher tempo in the league that brings out those last ten percent of his ability. You get the feeling that he's not really half as quick as Agbonlahor but that he nonetheless matched him for speed simply because getting beaten wasn't an option. I love it.

Aggreession and determination definitely has some part to play in his recovery speed, but ultimately the speed has got to be there to be able to draw upon it. He's an incredible, awesome footballer who is only going to get better with time and development. We're so lucky to have him.

 

[GaelForce22]

Agree with most of what you've said there Swish. But surely you can understand why Arshavin is the one playing in the middle when you look at Eduardo's completely anonymous recent performances there. I think Bendtner can be that player who is capable of carrying out both sides of Van Persie's role, but if Wenger sees him as a better winger at the moment we will need a new striker (and it looks like we're going to get one).

 

[ricky1985]

Chamakh is the one for me. He's cheap, he's the right age, he has all the physical attributes you could dream of having in a front man, especially when it comes to playing in the Premier league, the only negative is the fact that he's cup-tied in the Champions League, but maybe Robin can affect the latter stages of that tournament?

 

[Webdesignlab]

Chamakh is the one for me. He's cheap, he's the right age, he has all the physical attributes you could dream of having in a front man, especially when it comes to playing in the Premier league, the only negative is the fact that he's cup-tied in the Champions League, but maybe Robin can affect the latter stages of that tournament?

Er ... that and he doesn't score goals? Next.

 

[Swish]

Chamakh is not what this team needs right now, we need a striker who can score and will happily work his bollocks off for the team.

 

[Anzac]

@ Swish

I do not dispute your observations/theory as to the why/how Cesc had an impact & changed the dynamic of the midfield. I also agree that we look too much to pass/recieve the ball at feet.

However IMO you are forgetting the fact that Cesc plays from midfield & recieves the ball deep from out of defence before going forward - something the likes of our front 3 can not do becuase they do not get the ball early. There would be no space for Cesc or anyone else to move into if the forwards did not keep their shape higher up the field. Also IMO their movement off the ball was better with Cesc on the ball, as they knew that Cesc would pass into space & not just to feet - none of the other CMs do so.

 

[fabo]

Cesc basically does what we want/expect Diaby and co to do, but they are incapable. Great decision making, always looking forward, makes others around him better.

What a cameo.

 

[kel varnsen]

Cesc impact is being very overrated by us tbh. We did play well in the first half, and missed a few easy chances

absolutely not. the difference between us with and without cesc was immense. shocking tbh. when he came on, we dominated villa completely. before that, it was a fairly close match.

 

[fabo]

^^Agreed, some of the football prior to Cesc coming on was painful to watch. We never looked in danger of conceding regardless but our attacking play went up another level with Cesc.

He's certainly in the top 3 midfielders in the world.

 

[Nela]

I thought DDS did their job well before Cesc came on. We've become accustomed to having this ubber creative visionary in the middle of the pitch. But we didn't have that in our previous league winning teams, yet we now see it as a necessity. It shouldn't be if the forward players do their jobs properly. The reality is that most teams don't have that level of creative vision in the middle of the pitch, but they still win matches. United don't have it, in fact their preferred midfield is currently pretty dull. Chelsea don't have it. They have some really good players(Essien, Lampard..etc), but they don't have a creative force. And Liverpool certainly don't have it.

Our problem was more with the front three. It was the same issue we had when we played Sunderland. The movement of the front three and the desire to get in behind the opposition team wasn't strong enough. Pat Rice even started yelling at the players about it during the game yesterday. While I like him, for me Nasri embodies this problem more than anyone. Good player, but he doesn't penetrate the opposition defense enough and let's us fall into the pass-pass-pass trap.

 

[redanddread]

Cesc basically does what we want/expect Diaby and co to do, but they are incapable. Great decision making, always looking forward, makes others around him better.

What a cameo.

Ingratiate! Cesc is a one in a million player. He is able to do things few other players can. Diaby, Denilson, Song, Nasri all bring their own talents to the table. And together they offer a sumptuos gathering when all fit and on song.

 

[fabo]

Don't get me wrong, the DDS trio were doing well in midfield but everything is so methodical with them in there. You can basically spot their next pass and a certain sequence could take 5 passes to get to a forward player...whereas Cesc can accelerate play at any given time. His decision making is also on another level - similar to Xavi.

I expected Nasri to provide some of that offensive drive but he's not up to it right now.

 

[redanddread]

I though DDS did their job well before Cesc came on. We've become accustomed to having this ubber creative visionary in the middle of the pitch. But we didn't have that in our previous league winning teams, yet we now see it as a necessity. It shouldn't be if the forward players do their jobs properly. The reality is that most teams don't have that level of creative vision in the middle of the pitch, but they still win matches. United don't have it, in fact their preferred midfield is currently pretty dull. Chelsea don't have it. They have some really good players(Essien, Lampard..etc), but they don't have a creative force. And Liverpool certainly don't have it.

Our problem was more with the front three. It was the same issue we had when we played Sunderland. The movement of the front three and the desire to get in behind the opposition team wasn't strong enough. Pat Rice even started yelling at the players about it during the game yesterday. While I like him, for me Nasri embodies this problem more than anyone. Good player, but he doesn't penetrate the opposition defense enough and let's us fall into the pass-pass-pass trap.

we have sufferd badly from the loss of RVP & Bendter but the boys have done well in their absence bar the games against Sunderland & Chelsea. nasri is not really a forward but a midfielder. He is quite pentrating but his style is more to play in front of the oppo defence rather than running in behind a la a more natural forwad player. It will take him some time to adapt to this new role.

Cesc is the most creative midfielder in the EPL and we miss him when he is out but wenger designs his teams to take advantage of the players at his disposal and hopefully one of the other lads can step up to the plate and fill this void for however long Cesc is out.

 

[redanddread]

Don't get me wrong, the DDS trio were doing well in midfield but everything is so methodical with them in there. You can basically spot their next pass and a certain sequence could take 5 passes to get to a forward player...whereas Cesc can accelerate play at any given time. His decision making is also on another level - similar to Xavi.

I expected Nasri to provide some of that offensive drive but he's not up to it right now.[/quote]

Not defending Nasri to the hilt but his remit is slightly differnt. He is playing out wide and as such is not going to be able to exert a similar influence on the game as a more central player. However, he did manage several moments against Villa and his ability to retain possession in tight areas serves us well as does his eye for a pass.

 

[redanddread]

^^Agreed, some of the football prior to Cesc coming on was painful to watch. We never looked in danger of conceding regardless but our attacking play went up another level with Cesc.

He's certainly in the top 3 midfielders in the world.

U are a tough one to please !

Mod Edit: No 'txt'-language please.

 

[kramazov]

I though DDS did their job well before Cesc came on. We've become accustomed to having this ubber creative visionary in the middle of the pitch. But we didn't have that in our previous league winning teams, yet we now see it as a necessity. It shouldn't be if the forward players do their jobs properly. The reality is that most teams don't have that level of creative vision in the middle of the pitch, but they still win matches. United don't have it, in fact their preferred midfield is currently pretty dull. Chelsea don't have it. They have some really good players(Essien, Lampard..etc), but they don't have a creative force. And Liverpool certainly don't have it.

Our problem was more with the front three. It was the same issue we had when we played Sunderland. The movement of the front three and the desire to get in behind the opposition team wasn't strong enough. Pat Rice even started yelling at the players about it during the game yesterday. While I like him, for me Nasri embodies this problem more than anyone. Good player, but he doesn't penetrate the opposition defense enough and let's us fall into the pass-pass-pass trap.

The teams that you mentioned adopt a more industreous approach to football so there is little comparison between what they do and what we do. the main problems we have in the team with regards to not finishing games is

1- Striker and fulham's game is the best example on that one attempt one goal. if Eduardo was fit yesterday we would have finished the game in the 1st 20 mins.

2- Our Defence is frighteningly weak very weak in crosses and high balls.

Fix those two flaws and we will win the league.