EPL – Arsenal vs Manchester United – 4:00pm - 22/01/12

[awooga83]

This match showed again our reliance on TCP, it is that point that worries me. Wenger's lack of action and apparent contentment with this team is alarming. If he hasn't learnt that our best player don't believe his promises and don't share his vision we are in trouble. He seems to naively think he can talk everybody round. If this blows up in his face and we lose RvP then he has to go. Imagine where we would be now without him.

 

[GunneDown]

I think that was the last straw with RVP. He will be off.

 

[Enfield]

For me the biggest criticism of Wenger should be the haphazard nature of our defending, yet again we look like no one thinks about organizing it. Surely Djourou had been told what to do, push up and don't give them all day and night to swing in crosses from dangerous positions. Also I agree that Arsh left his man in easy but tbf he isn't a defender. People forget that Arsh tracked back and twice tried to get his foot in while our entire defence stood static looking at an opposing player raiding into their box. A good LB would have met him outside the box and stopped him there and then.

Our tactics never seem to change even though they haven't worked in god knows how long, our bench as the poorest I think I've ever seen. No point in blaming injuries, Almunia, Squid and Park should not still be at the club. No way. At least if we had hungry young players we could expect more of a can do attitude in the event of them needing to come on.

Finally, did anyone listen to Gary Neville after the game. He rightly pointed out that Evra got MOTM because all day he got to run down his flank unopposed. Again this looks to me like a sign of a poorly coached team. But also why, as Neville pointed out, didn't anyone get over to help the 18yo who was making his PL debut.

 

[cuban]

I didn't agree with the decision to put OX off.

But...you reckon he would have prevented that goal? Because half the time he wasn't even in the position Arshavin was prior to that goal. Both Theo and OX provided very support to our FBs, especially to Djorou.

 

[Accomplished]

I didn't agree with the decision to put OX off.

But...you reckon he would have prevented that goal? Because half the time he wasn't even in the position Arshavin was prior to that goal. Both Theo and OX provided very support to our FBs, especially to Djorou.

I doubt he would have stopped the goal to be honest, but the broader point is that the substitution completely killed our momentum and from that point onwards we didn't look like winning. If the substitution hadn't been made, we could have still been on the front foot and the goal situation would never have come about. Whether the substitution was necessary I don't really know, but it was somewhat baffling, and it certainly changed the game.

 

[cuban]

agreed there...especially fans reaction to that substitution completely changed the mood on the pitch...shame as it was yet again one of those games in which we've basically defeated ourselves

 

[outlaw_member]

Man Utd Fans on redcafe: Carrick and Giggs were dominating the midfield thats a great footballing intelligence.

Those two bettered our trio in the middle of the park, despite the numerical disadvantage. Song and Ramsey are not good enough to be starters, and Rosicky's only useful as a last minute substitute. No matter how one feels about Giggs, he's been an incredible servant to the game. To still be decisive at his age in big games is a testament to his dedication to the game.

I thought Mertesacker and Koscielny were superb for large parts of the game. Vermaelen on the hand is seemingly starting to lose confidence by playing out on the flank. He's no longer the impenetrable machine that he is known to be, and he doesn't look half as assured any more.

As for Oxlade, those wanting him to be a starter are jumping the gun, massively. He's not ready to be playing week-in week-out as a definite starter at this point in his career. He should currently be our super-sub, with another starting wide forward being brought in.

 

[Spork]

<a class="postlink" href="https://p.twimg.com/AjyG2WnCAAEEAZN.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">https://p.twimg.com/AjyG2WnCAAEEAZN.jpg</a>

 

[Cruisio]

Thing is outlaw theres two problems with that

1. Yes, he is young and not really ready to be starting games, but can he offer more than what we currently have in front of him in the pecking order? Yes he can (and thats pretty alarming in itself

2. I think most of us feel (and given the evidence its justified) that if the boy doesnt start, he mostly likely wont get a lot of chances off the bench due to Wengers reluctance to ever change the pattern of his substitutions

 

[WengerFaithful]

First post since the defeat.

All the releveant points have been made so I wont go over them but Wenger really got it wrong yesterday with the OX Sub - Not since the Eboue incident have I seen or heard the crowd react like that - the man himself looked shell shocked at the reaction.

For me personnally it was not that Ox got subbed 100% that upset me but it was who he brought on for him a game that is box to box like that is not made for the slow/lazy Arshavin and how AW taught Arshavin could contribute in a game being played at that speed is baffling.

 

[outlaw_member]

Thing is outlaw theres two problems with that

1. Yes, he is young and not really ready to be starting games, but can he offer more than what we currently have in front of him in the pecking order? Yes he can (and thats pretty alarming in itself

2. I think most of us feel (and given the evidence its justified) that if the boy doesnt start, he mostly likely wont get a lot of chances off the bench due to Wengers reluctance to ever change the pattern of his substitutions

We're a selling club, so we need to start viewing players as projects, just like Wenger does. So Oxlade's development would be better served if we were to be restrained with him, rather than risk his future by running him through the ground, like we have done Wilshere. He certainly seems to be superior than our current options, but we don't yet know his true current level. Oxlade is NOT going to be performing this impressively once he settles down, the novelty of starting games in the top flight wears off, and he's got to play consistently in this league. Having said that, he's already superior than Walcott, but we can't afford to push him through as a starter, and risk burning him out. We all know how rigid Wenger can be when it comes to rotation.

 

[fabo]

The problem is that we have squad players as starters in the wide forward roles, and a dud in Arshavin. Sadly, it's gonna mean increased pressure on the Ox fairly soon I'd say. You can't hold this kid back for much longer, he's chomping at the bit and barring injuries, he's gonna go far.

I'm excited by the prospect of a technician out wide, someone who can play the type of football we want, contribute positively in deeper areas, but also provide penetration, attack the full-back, score and create goals(I'm hoping anyway, he has vision and good shooting technique). I've said to Outie that I believe we need this player in attack unless we have a world class midfield trio, and I don't see that any time soon.

Regardless we still need to revamp the attack. 4 offensive roles, only 1 player performing to the required standard, hence we have problems.

The midfield was disjointed as **** yesterday too, Rooney was strolling through unnoticed at times. Wenger talks about injuries but in reality, only Jack has been missing regularly from our starting midfield/forward 6. We truly are mediocre in certain positions right now.

 

[fabo]

Song has been poor for a while, he seems immune to criticism at times. He bugs me with his ball-hogging and sluggish nature.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

He's as dependent on Arteta, as Ramsey is.

 

[ArsenalDNA]

Thing is outlaw theres two problems with that

1. Yes, he is young and not really ready to be starting games, but can he offer more than what we currently have in front of him in the pecking order? Yes he can (and thats pretty alarming in itself

2. I think most of us feel (and given the evidence its justified) that if the boy doesnt start, he mostly likely wont get a lot of chances off the bench due to Wengers reluctance to ever change the pattern of his substitutions

We're a selling club, so we need to start viewing players as projects, just like Wenger does. So Oxlade's development would be better served if we were to be restrained with him, rather than risk his future by running him through the ground, like we have done Wilshere. He certainly seems to be superior than our current options, but we don't yet know his true current level. Oxlade is NOT going to be performing this impressively once he settles down, the novelty of starting games in the top flight wears off, and he's got to play consistently in this league.

He had a pretty special game. I'm sure he knows that too. I can't imagine anyone expecting him to play like that every time he goes out.

But, imo, i've seen enough from him that indicates he has enough to his game that he will always be a threat. Whether it's using his pace, dribbling, passing or shooting. Obviously he's not a complete player but he's at least more than adequate in each aspect that he will always be dangerous.

If we had better players than i would be happy him coming off the bench. But unfortunately we are at a pretty pivotal moment in the direction our club is heading. If we miss the top 4 this year, RvP could leave and we could head the way of Liverpool. We need every point we can get and i'd be infinitely more confident of squeezing into a CL spot with Chamberlain getting 60-70 minutes the majority of games than i would with Arshavin or Theo getting those minutes.

 

[outlaw_member]

Yeah, I agree that we need such a player in the front line.

Song's problem is that he commits the same school boy error in every single game. He pushes forward to press, but then stops half-way to stand off, only to then get passed around. He doesn't commit to the press, nor does he stand off in a position where he is restricting space, thus he ends up in no man's land. This guy is another who is being shown up. Song, Ramsey and Walcott are the weak links.

 

[Popmousse]

Terrible home fans we have, I am actually ashamed sometimes. They moan at the first loss of possession, they boo, they jeer during games. Just appalling crowd.

 

[Illusion]

Terrible home fans we have, I am actually ashamed sometimes. They moan at the first loss of possession, they boo, they jeer during games. Just appalling crowd.

They pay the highest prices in the land and haven't seen success for quite a few years now. If paying fans can't voice their discontent in the stadium then where can they voice it? Criticism isn't heard through any other angle and it's far too easily deflected.

The board and the manager must be informed that the fans are not happy with the way some things are being dealt with at this club.

 

[celestis]

I don't think it is Songs fault , when one guys pressed and the others dont he just gets played around , we don't press as a cohesive unit . No pressure on the ball results in the back line being a rabble .

 

[russkiegooner]

Regardless we still need to revamp the attack. 4 offensive roles, only 1 player performing to the required standard, hence we have problems.

We need to revamp every single area since we lack quality throughout. We're playing a 4-3-3 formation with no real fullbacks, no real wingers, and a midfield that's not dominant any more. It's a sad joke. I'm actually surprised we managed to get back in the game at some point and - had it not been for Wenger's stupid decision to substitute Ox - could have even grabbed a win.

But a win would have only clouded some people's judgement for a while; it would not have solved our fundamental problems that are there for all to see. If you keep selling quality and replace it by average or developing players (particularly given our injury-prone squad), this is what you get at the end of the day. We are one player away from being a mid-table side and everyone knows that player's name. The problem isn't only Van Persie's future wages (althought it needs to be solved to), it is his desire to win trophies. If he has a similar offer on wages from ManCity, why would he stay at Arsenal?

The owners of the Club just have to decide whether they want to maximise profits in the short term or keep AFC among the great clubs in England (and the world) in the long term. In the latter case, we should show more ambition on the transfer market... starting from today. With this squad, we'll finish between 5th and 7th and it's about where we should stand today looking at things objectively. We look like Villa or Everton several years ago: not quite a mid-table side yet but not a serious title contender either.