EPL – West Ham vs Arsenal – 5:30pm – 6/10/12 - ESPN

[Dokaka]

Gervinho does **** all when he plays CF other than making good runs and scoring so I don't see why not. Walcott is at least, if not better at doing that.

And I don't agree that "it's been shown time and time again". When has it ever? When have you played a pure poacher up top? If anyone says Eduardo, I'll rip their **** off

You haven't had an AM that keeps possession this well in a long time. Even Fabregas doesn't keep the ball as well as this, he's much more risky in possession. This means that's the CF has more freedom to move WITHOUT the ball instead of having to hold it to bring others into play.

Think about it. Giroud didn't exactly do anything spectacular against us, and the goal he scored had nothing to do with him being a more complete CF, it was a poachers effort. Your offense was all Santi, the Giroud rarely touched the ball far away from the box.

 

[RUS arsenal]

Gervinho does **** all when he plays CF other than making good runs and scoring so I don't see why not. Walcott is at least, if not better at doing that.

And I don't agree that "it's been shown time and time again". When has it ever? When have you played a pure poacher up top? If anyone says Eduardo, I'll rip their **** off

You haven't had an AM that keeps possession this well in a long time. Even Fabregas doesn't keep the ball as well as this, he's much more risky in possession. This means that's the CF has more freedom to move WITHOUT the ball instead of having to hold it to bring others into play.

Think about it. Giroud didn't exactly do anything spectacular against us, and the goal he scored had nothing to do with him being a more complete CF, it was a poachers effort. Your offense was all Santi, the Giroud rarely touched the ball far away from the box.

That just negates your whole post, Giroud had the "pre-assist" for his first goal and put in a through ball that even Cesc would be proud of for the 2nd. I doubt Walcott can do that.

 

[The_Playmaker]

Personally I don't think there is a debate as to whether Walcott should be playing centre forward or not. He probably could play up front, but definitely not in the system we are playing in now. He has no skill, he has good movement, but he is all pace. He is basically a carbon copy of Michael Owen, and even then I wouldn't say he works as hard as Owen did at his game as Owen added heading to his game. Walcott CANNOT play up front as a loan striker. Take Defoe as an example. Walcott can't even protect the ball on the wing, how the hell would he protect the ball with two centre halves right behind him? Technically his touch isn't that good, he more than often bundles through challenges. He loses the ball on the wing, what makes people think he won't lose it upfront. Yes he has good movement, but we don't hit the ball over the top and if the defending team sits deep his movement is useless. The only way Walcott will be playing upfront is if he has Giroud alongside him and we revert to 3 at the back like we did at the end of the game. Big man little man, Heskey - Owen, Walcott is not a loan striker.

We played Gervinho up front as a striker. Just because he didn't stay central didn't mean he wasn't playing upfront. It just means that he can't stay central because he cant physically occupy two central defenders, so he drifts wide. He runs the channels, its exactly what the smaller strikers have to do, Defoe, Tevez and Aguero, all small, all run the channels. Suddenly Gervinho moves around and he is a false number 9? Spain played six midfielders and pushed one further forward. Maybe you could say we play a false number 9 if we brought Wilshere back and stuck Cazorla up front. I personally don't think you can play that way in England, the game is too physical. Gervinho is ahead of Walcott in the pecking order, because Walcott is messing around when it comes to his contract and Gervinho is simply better on the ball.

As for the game, I felt that we were too slow to stop crosses coming in and we really need to up the pace of the game. We move the ball far too slow, it lets defences sit in their position. Why the hell we don't move that ball around and force the team to shuffle across is beyond me. Most people have covered the main points in the game. I think the game was pretty self explanatory.

The only point I would like to make is that I am still not convinced by Ramsey. I said before the match I would rather have Coquelin in the side and I still stick by that. Going forward, Ramsey slows the game down, he loses possession more than any other of our central midfielders. I don't care about stats, he loses the ball more than he should. His hollywood passes are infuriating, the way he slows the game down has nothing to do with him breaking his leg. He is quick enough to want to run with it and attempt to beat players, but when he has the ball he can't simply take 3 touches and move it quickly. The thing is, I could forgive all that if he offered something defensively, but sadly he offers nothing.

He doesn't track runners, he can't tackle, he hasn't got the pace to do a recovery run, he doesn't know where he should be positionally, he doesn't win headers, he isn't physical and more annoyingly he doesn't try. Cazorla is our most creative player, but you see him at least trying to win the ball. Ramsey ran Arteta into the ground by forcing him to cover him constantly. At least Coquelin would put himself about, and his passing range is actually better than Ramsey's.

 

[Giroud]

Of course you could play with six midfielders in England successfully if you had the quality and intelligence, just no one in the Prem is on that level.

 

[Dokaka]

That just negates your whole post, Giroud had the "pre-assist" for his first goal and put in a through ball that even Cesc would be proud of for the 2nd. I doubt Walcott can do that.

Walcott has done exactly that. Not often though, obviously, and no he probably wouldn't do it as well as Giroud, but that pre-assist was not anything special. The ball through to Theo was pretty good though.

My main point was that the bulk of the responsibility that was put on RVP last season is now on Cazorla, so if Walcott is ever going to play CF for Arsenal, it's this season.

 

[RUS arsenal]

That just negates your whole post, Giroud had the "pre-assist" for his first goal and put in a through ball that even Cesc would be proud of for the 2nd. I doubt Walcott can do that.

Walcott has done exactly that. Not often though, obviously, and no he probably wouldn't do it as well as Giroud, but that pre-assist was not anything special. The ball through to Theo was pretty good though.

My main point was that the bulk of the responsibility that was put on RVP last season is now on Cazorla, so if Walcott is ever going to play CF for Arsenal, it's this season.

I think he deserves a chance for sure and unless he gets sold in January he'll probably get that chance during ACN, however, I just don't think he'll be a success in the middle, but I never said we shouldn't give him a chance. Right now Gerv and now seemingly Giroud are doing just fine at CF, no need to force trials at this stage.

 

[VAVAVOOM 14]

I find our lack of goals scored from set pieces to be extremely disconcerting. We have never really been a threat to score from corners.

Even the pre Invincible days, we didn't really have the presence of a player with great heading ability (barring Campbell).

I don't have any solid stats, but I'd be fairly confident in saying we've probably scored substantially fewer goals from set pieces in the past 12 years than the likes of United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.

With the amount of corners we win, we should really try to add this dimension to our game.

 

[phenn]

I find our lack of goals scored from set pieces to be extremely disconcerting. We have never really been a threat to score from corners.

Even the pre Invincible days, we didn't really have the presence of a player with great heading ability (barring Campbell).

I don't have any solid stats, but I'd be fairly confident in saying we've probably scored substantially fewer goals from set pieces in the past 12 years than the likes of United, Chelsea, Liverpool, etc.

With the amount of corners we win, we should really try to add this dimension to our game.

I think you can see we're trying to work on it with the different formations we line up in. It just hasn't been happening lately, which is odd since Mertesacker and Giroud are both very good with their heads. I think honestly it's been an issue of service. I love Cazorla but he hasn't been putting in a high percentage of dangerous corners. Arteta didn't really do the business last year either. If we had better quality there I think we'd get more goals (I think it's a service issue more than a heading issue).

That said I think Kos has missed a few chances that I remember this year so it's certainly not just one thing.

 

[Rain Dance]

Why don't we try a different way for set piece, like this one?
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV4KNj51Do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzV4KNj51Do</a>

 

[Dokaka]

<a class="postlink" href="http://kumb.com/story.php?id=126506" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://kumb.com/story.php?id=126506</a>" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Some of you got featured on the site

 

[redanddread]

Personally I don't think there is a debate as to whether Walcott should be playing centre forward or not. He probably could play up front, but definitely not in the system we are playing in now. He has no skill, he has good movement, but he is all pace. He is basically a carbon copy of Michael Owen, and even then I wouldn't say he works as hard as Owen did at his game as Owen added heading to his game. Walcott CANNOT play up front as a loan striker. Take Defoe as an example. Walcott can't even protect the ball on the wing, how the hell would he protect the ball with two centre halves right behind him? Technically his touch isn't that good, he more than often bundles through challenges. He loses the ball on the wing, what makes people think he won't lose it upfront. Yes he has good movement, but we don't hit the ball over the top and if the defending team sits deep his movement is useless. The only way Walcott will be playing upfront is if he has Giroud alongside him and we revert to 3 at the back like we did at the end of the game. Big man little man, Heskey - Owen, Walcott is not a loan striker.

We played Gervinho up front as a striker. Just because he didn't stay central didn't mean he wasn't playing upfront. It just means that he can't stay central because he cant physically occupy two central defenders, so he drifts wide. He runs the channels, its exactly what the smaller strikers have to do, Defoe, Tevez and Aguero, all small, all run the channels. Suddenly Gervinho moves around and he is a false number 9? Spain played six midfielders and pushed one further forward. Maybe you could say we play a false number 9 if we brought Wilshere back and stuck Cazorla up front. I personally don't think you can play that way in England, the game is too physical. Gervinho is ahead of Walcott in the pecking order, because Walcott is messing around when it comes to his contract and Gervinho is simply better on the ball.

As for the game, I felt that we were too slow to stop crosses coming in and we really need to up the pace of the game. We move the ball far too slow, it lets defences sit in their position. Why the hell we don't move that ball around and force the team to shuffle across is beyond me. Most people have covered the main points in the game. I think the game was pretty self explanatory.

The only point I would like to make is that I am still not convinced by Ramsey. I said before the match I would rather have Coquelin in the side and I still stick by that. Going forward, Ramsey slows the game down, he loses possession more than any other of our central midfielders. I don't care about stats, he loses the ball more than he should. His hollywood passes are infuriating, the way he slows the game down has nothing to do with him breaking his leg. He is quick enough to want to run with it and attempt to beat players, but when he has the ball he can't simply take 3 touches and move it quickly. The thing is, I could forgive all that if he offered something defensively, but sadly he offers nothing.

He doesn't track runners, he can't tackle, he hasn't got the pace to do a recovery run, he doesn't know where he should be positionally, he doesn't win headers, he isn't physical and more annoyingly he doesn't try. Cazorla is our most creative player, but you see him at least trying to win the ball. Ramsey ran Arteta into the ground by forcing him to cover him constantly. At least Coquelin would put himself about, and his passing range is actually better than Ramsey's.

Take off the shades dude. Ramsey had an excellent game against The Hammers and has shown this season to be a far superior option to Le Coq. Le Coq had a totally unimpressive game against Olympiakos. Ramsey has played well in most of his games and excellently in some of them. Le Coq doens't have Ramsey's confidence to show for the ball and was a liability in the midfield in Wednesday's Cl win over Olympiakos. I like Le Coq and think he will make it at Arsenal but he his down the pecking order and did nothing for me in his last outing and it was NO surprise to see Ramsey start. You cannot just be a defenzive midfielder in this team, you have to be well rounded and be able to influence the game with passing, movement, scoring. He did his chances no good with his performance last Wednesday. look for him next in the League Cup against Reading.

In fact the more I read what you actually say about Ramsey it seems to border on absolute rubbish and I'm not meaning that as an insult to you in anyway.

 

[Glovegun]

I agree with the above.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

The stick Rambo gets seriously pisses me off, if it's not one thing its another.

He's a quality YOUNG player who will only improve.

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

Be gald you haven't been around the Mains at the turn of the year TGG, when the Ramsey bashing reached its first all time high here.

One would've thought some were talking about a player that got accidentally into our side and was the only reason why we've been struggling.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

God it was bad enough in the lobby.

It got to the point where if the whole team would have a stinker he'd just get singled out, took the word scapegoat to a whole new definition.

Fair enough, he wasn't great in patches last season, but he went from being our new Cesc to the worst player we have in our side. Its just ridiculous.

Oh yeah, and he was brilliant against West Ham, like he has been in the majority of matches he's played this season.

Can't wait till he starts making his critics eat their words, I won't be holding back on any of the 'I told you so's'

 

[redwhiteAustrian]

I think it's as always a question what your expectations are from a certain player. Some people have higher ones than others, hence why you'll often find some people complaining, and others praising/defending players.

Alone the fact, that there have always been numerous posters who have defended Ramsey shows, that he can't be as bad as some make him out to be, and neither as great as his defenders claim (I'll admit - I'm amongst them) because there are some doubters.

I'm deadsure he'll come good, he's got all the tools to be successful.

 

[Mastadon]

Some of the criticism was over the top but in general he's been disappointing hasn't he? Perhaps its the burden of expectation set by the likes of Vieira, Fabregas and Wilshere but I have never understood the hype surrounding Ramsey esp the comparisons with Fabregas. He's potentially a good player but not great imo.

 

[Taylor Gang Gunners]

Yeah I agree, don't get me wrong I'm not going to claim I'm the only one who's supported him during his bad form, but the criticism outweighs the praise considerably.

I just think its a question of when instead of if he comes good. When he's on song he's quite the midfielder.

 

[Shadow Moses]

There's a good reason why Ramsey gets singled out. Him and Geo were by far the worst players against West Ham. He broke down our play countless times and constantly gave the ball away. His poor defending also contributed to the goal we conceded. He brings energy into the team but at the cost of possession and defending.

Glad Diaby & Wilshere are ahead of him and will be back soon.

 

[cannonade]

Ramsey's poor form last year was obvious. He has admitted as much. There's a difference between playing badly and being bad. We were in such dire need in the MF last season we had to play him even though he was playing like crap. We *****ed last season because he was horrendous and there were no other options to play--we were so thin. It's great to see him playing well again and put last year's performances behind him.