Kai Havertz: No More Mr Nice Kai

[MATHEO]

Was gonna write a long post on how the striker position is the most demanding physically and technically as you have less time and space to operate. This means that you can hide Havertz's technical shortcomings by playing him deeper, while maintaining his biggest strength which is his presence and movement, players like Fellaini were effective the most inside the box even though they were midfielders.

But instead of writing that post, I just want to call out the people who dismiss him as a midfielder as BORING. I cant understand how can you not be excited by the fact that playing Havertz in midfield allows us to switch to 2-striker systems at will during our attacks. Dismissing the romantic era of 4-4-2 just like that !

Also I want to note that we played our best and most fluid football when Trossard was upfront and Havertz played as a CM, it seems like a memory long forgotten. Yes, Havertz hasnt mastered his role as a midfielder yet but its a positional awareness issue rather than anything else, this comes with time as he understands the role more and more but some here are blind to his potential and only look at past performances.

I also have a lot to say about how Arteta tinkered with his fullbacks and how that changed the dynamics of the team and how this particularly affected Havertz's role in the team, but I'll leave that for later.

 

[Macho]

But instead of writing that post, I just want to call out the people who dismiss him as a midfielder as BORING.

So what do you call those who like the look of it so far? Cause I have some ideas of what I might call them

 

[ArsenesCoatMaker]

I was rewatching his game vs Porto when he did get the ball several times in his runs and was destroyed by a 45 year old Pepe, I was rewatching Bayern games and he couldn't do anything with or without the ball.

People will pick easy games for him and pretend he is something that he is not, I'd rather use quality opponents to measure what he can or can't do.

I think you need to goto specsavers then because he didn't play as striker in either Porto game. Against Bayern he didn't get service in either game, literally only getting 1 chance in both legs.

He did score to win the a CL final against City, so it's not like he hasn't got big game performances

 

[LookingForEric]

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and one more:

View attachment 23781


@drippin @LookingForEric @Trilly @whoever.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742477659915858149

@Macho @Trilly @whoever

Articles before we started playing do not back your point, sadly. Watch how we were playing and setting up before the injuries.

 

[MATHEO]

So what do you call those who like the look of it so far? Cause I have some ideas of what I might call them

I dont know many who actually think that he looked great at CM so far, I myself would be the first to say that he hasnt mastered the role yet and hasnt been fully convincing. My whole point is that theres huge potential there and excitement towards the fluidity he offers if he started next to another world class striker.

 

[Macho]

I dont know many who actually think that he looked great at CM so far, I myself would be the first to say that he hasnt mastered the role yet and hasnt been fully convincing. My whole point is that theres huge potential there and excitement towards the fluidity he offers if he started next to another world class striker.

People were intrigued in the summer and got gassed by the Leverkusen compilations, but wasn't convinced once they saw it which is more than fair. I don't really see the problem here or why you had to call them boring.

Football is entertainment first and foremost, it's subjective. You don't have to like havertz in midfield.

 

[North5]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742477659915858149

@Macho @Trilly @whoever

Articles before we started playing do not back your point, sadly. Watch how we were playing and setting up before the injuries.

Ah well if "@MoArsenal86" says it then it must be true.

First 3 games of the PL, Partey was shoved into RB with Havertz in CM.

 

[rotateta]

Can people stop with this, he was never meant to be a LCM. Partey’s injury literally forced us to use him there.

Second striker/just behind the striker making those lovely runs.

I said he’d achieve 15-20 G/A with us this season and was laughed out this thread.

I. Know. Ball.

I questioned the signing at the start, but could see why we did it, and that we would get one helluva player if we could get his career back on track.

Whilst I have been appalled at how many fans have focused on the price and his initial difficulties, I do think we could have helped him more.

He remains a vanity project for me as tets was desperate to play him, utilising zinny, smith Rowe, trossard, vieira or jorginho in midfield would make more sense to me. Instead we were disfunctional on the left for some time.

Him continually playing there when other options available does suggest tets sees him as a LM who can play elsewhere if needed.

The villa game to me proved he should only play that role if chasing a result, or able to switch with trossard. We lost that game mainly as we played a team as if facing Luton rather than a top 4 team.

I am hoping not only has he found his role in the team, but the management (and fans) accept that to be his lead role, and it should be that next season as well.

I fear that there will be too much pressure to sign a striker who will be expected to play most weeks. We do that then we are back to havertz playing a role he does not fully excel in just to get him on the pitch. He will be less confident and a lesser player if we do sign another striker, we will also be a weaker team as a whole unless the signing is truly sensational, more so than the current options appear to be.

 

[drippin]

Below are my posts from last June & July. But no, Arteta and Edu once again can't see what I can, with superior resources and knowledge. Not even when Arteta multiple times said that being versatile is Havertz main qualities.

Just like they couldn't see and plan White becoming an RB, even though I could see it.

Btw. Chelsea paid like 82 million pounds for him in the end, unlike I knew at the time, so I would have been fine with 65 million pounds too.

AM meltdown, gotta love it!

I can see why they wanted Xavi Simons. I can see why they want Havertz more, for almost similar money.

For 40-60 million pounds, I'm fine with it. Chelsea paid like 76 million for him.

How do people think Havertz is anything like Xhaka? Arteta would need to alter the tactics if he was replacing Xhaka with Havertz. Havertz is a more attacking player. Maybe against easier opposition, or games when chasing lead?

So I see Havertz as Ødegaard rotation, and better false 9 than Trossard. Why buy someone like Diaby who can mostly play RW, when Saka will play all he can?

I also think this could mean that Jesus could go back to RW, after starting games as a striker, to rest Saka. In an UCL season where you have to rotate more with not much drop in quality.

There are endless possibilities with a player like Havertz. He has a huge upside in a team and coaching that fits him.

It's funny to see the same kind of meltdown over and over again in AM, even after Arsenal's current management has succeeded very well in past windows with a limited budget compared to UCL clubs.

What's also funny is that the tweets suggested that Chelsea sells because Havertz won't renew. So they want to extend him, and it's no wonder even if he hasn't lighted up the world yet.

Arsenal already has Jesus and Nketiah with long-term contracts. Havertz would be another striker rotation, who can cover Ødegaard, or Jesus can move to the wing so Saka gets rest.

It's not a problem. Trossard has always been more of a winger. Havertz has always been more of an false 9 and AMF. Jesus has always been striker and RW.

He is like 190cm tall, so he is surprisingly technical and fast considering that. It's a rare combination.

He could even play RW imo, but Jesus would be much better choice.

I don't think he is very strong, but Arteta pumped up Nketiah too quite fast, and Havertz isn’t old.

This is exactly why I rather see Havertz and Trossard as the rotation false 9's, in addition to bringing someone like Kudus in who has played as a CF.

Havertz seems to be at least a similar level finisher as Nketiah, and they are the same age. Havertz is just more technical, better playmaker, more versatile and taller.

There is enough cover for Jesus in this way, and they all can do similar things as false 9 as Jesus, unlike Nketiah.

Havertz had a bit better finishing vs. np xG than Nketiah last season. This was when he was playing in a non-functioning Chelsea with his confidence and joy totally gone. While he has seasons in Chelsea and Leverkusen where he almost equaled or overperformed his np xG.

Compare this to Nketiah playing in the clearly 2nd best team in the league, with full confidence and no problems, and still being a bit worse.

Can't see how Havertz is trash, when he clearly is the more complete player with similar finishing in his worst season ever. Plus he gives that height option that is sorely needed in the attack.

On the basic level I don't like replacing a Hale Ender for a Chelsea player. But Nketiah was from Chelsea also. And it's much more important to improve the squad and depth, than to be sentimental. They are also exactly the same age, but Havertz has always been the bigger talent, and is more versatile which is very important.

 

[Blood on the Tracks]

Not sure why this is a big debate.

I think Kai was predominantly brought in as a Xhaka replacement but his versatility to play other positions was also factored in to the signing.

So I don't think it was some genius move from Arteta but there was more to it than Arteta just lucking into playing him up top too.

 

[El Duderino]

Can people stop with this, he was never meant to be a LCM. Partey’s injury literally forced us to use him there.

Second striker/just behind the striker making those lovely runs.

I said he’d achieve 15-20 G/A with us this season and was laughed out this thread.

I. Know. Ball.

the manager says otherwise

 

[RunTheTrap]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742477659915858149

@Macho @Trilly @whoever

Articles before we started playing do not back your point, sadly. Watch how we were playing and setting up before the injuries.

You lot are quote tweeting the same guy who claimed Timber would be back for Porto away and that Mudryk was a Balon D’or candidate. Stop believing everything that is said and look what the manager puts out on the pitch.

 

[drippin]

Not sure why this is a big debate.

I think Kai was predominantly brought in as a Xhaka replacement but his versatility to play other positions was also factored in to the signing.

So I don't think it was some genius move from Arteta but there was more to it than Arteta just lucking into playing him up top too.

There shouldn't be a debate, but these guys try to claim he was bought as a midfielder, and ignore how Arteta multiple times emphasized his versatility and was sure about him playing multiple positions.

They would just need to agree that he wasn't bought only as a midfielder, which is a fact. He played CF at Chelsea along with AMF, so it's clear what he meant by his versatility.

I think he played a few games even as a winger, and Arteta has used Vieira as RW. Which is a bit similar as neither are optimal wingers for Arteta.

 

[North5]

Kai Havertz stats and ratings | Sofascore

Kai Havertz profile player page. Goals, matches, stats, player ratings and more.

www.sofascore.com

Havertz season heat map

Granit Xhaka stats and ratings | Sofascore

Granit Xhaka profile player page. Goals, matches, stats, player ratings and more.

www.sofascore.com

Xhaka last season heat map

If Havertz wasn't playing flase 9 they'd likely look even more similar

Given the fact that Havertz started at LCM for the first load of games of the season with Partey at RB. It's obvious he was brought in as a more offensive Xhaka role

 

[drippin]

Given the fact that Havertz started at LCM for the first load of games of the season with Partey at RB. It's obvious he was brought in as a more offensive Xhaka role

No, he was brought in as a versatile player who would rotate in midfield along with Partey & Jorginho, and of course also as a false 9.

But because of injuries and niggles, he played mostly LCM at the beginning. He also covered Ødegaard when he was injured at RCM, and was better there as it's where he has played earlier in his career, a more natural side to him also.

Why the need to suggest he was bought as a midfielder only?

 

[North5]

No, he was brought in as a versatile player who would rotate in midfield along with Partey & Jorginho, and of course also as a false 9.

But because of injuries and niggles, he played mostly LCM at the beginning. He also covered Ødegaard when he was injured at RCM, and was better there as it's where he has played earlier in his career, a more natural side to him also.

Why the need to suggest he was bought as a midfielder only?

When Parety was fit Partey started at RB

Nobody is saying he was brought in as a midfielder ONLY. But you're denying he was primarily brought in to be our new LCM

 

[El Duderino]

Not sure why this is a big debate.

I think Kai was predominantly brought in as a Xhaka replacement but his versatility to play other positions was also factored in to the signing.

So I don't think it was some genius move from Arteta but there was more to it than Arteta just lucking into playing him up top too.

It really is that simple.

Nothing wrong with Arteta realizing he offers more up top while doing almost the exact same job i.e. aerial ability, dropping to receive the ball at times.

He is just not that good at progressing play and carrying the ball, the less you have him do that and keep things simple for him, the better. It means he gets to use his movement and runs.

Last night just drives the point further. It's why Trossard and him worked so well when Kai started to get into this run of form.

 

[RunTheTrap]

I'm checking out of this argument because we are going around in circles. But what I will say is that half of the forum believes Kai was brought in to be a “versatile” option, and the other believes he was brought in to be our Xhaka replacement. Funnily enough, no one here has said Kai would be our CF. What does that tell you?

 

[db10_therza]

Tbh I don’t care what exactly he was brought in for anyway. Adaptability is a great trait to have as a manager.

All I care is that I don’t see him in midfield ever again.

 

[LookingForEric]

Ah well if "@MoArsenal86" says it then it must be true.

First 3 games of the PL, Partey was shoved into RB with Havertz in CM.

Yes and then when we had the ball/attacked Partey moved into CM and Havertz was pushed higher.

Am I actually talking to brick walls here? Do people genuinely look at the team sheet and think that’s how we play throughout the entire game?

****ing mind boggling mate.