Manchester city vs Arsenal EPL | 15:00pm | 12-09-09

[Captain]

To be fair, I don't even think that City played a high tempo, pressing game. They had De Jong and Barry playing a twin holding role and had pace on the counter.

I never realised it until today actually, but what we need is a touch player like Rosicky. I could never quite put my finger on it before but it became so obvious. Our other players are all the same.

i've said it for a long time. do not underestimate the importance of accelerating the passing game. that is absolutely crucial to the way we play.

Eduardo in VanPersie's position and Rosicky on the right?

 

[AliBabaBrewer]

With Rosicky back, Denilson can go back to being where he should be at this stage, at a team like this, with a squad like we have - An option if someone's injured, or if we need a couple of players to sit further back the pitch.

 

[Anzac]

Eduardo in VanPersie's position and Rosicky on the right?

No - I still want the likes of Rosicky as one of 2 CMs coming forward, other wise everything has to go thru' Cesc if it's to be effective. Just put Eduardo in the middle & RVP out on the right, & get AA to get beyond the defender before coming infield.

 

[tam1886]

To be fair, I don't even think that City played a high tempo, pressing game. They had De Jong and Barry playing a twin holding role and had pace on the counter.

I never realised it until today actually, but what we need is a touch player like Rosicky. I could never quite put my finger on it before but it became so obvious. Our other players are all the same.

i've said it for a long time. do not underestimate the importance of accelerating the passing game. that is absolutely crucial to the way we play.

Eduardo in VanPersie's position and Rosicky on the right?

I wouldn't mind Eduardo in the middle, Van Persie on the right and Rosicky on the left.

But I think it's going to be a while before we see Eduardo being a regular starter in terms of being on the teamsheet in every other game possible, and even longer before Rosicky establishes himself back in the team. I still think Eduardo will be in and out of the team, and Rosicky will be used here and there until he gets back into the swing of things.

 

[hesham]

Taking Song off was a huge factor in why we lost the game even at 2-1 we still looked like(and had time) to come back. Song went off, we lost all shape and disipline in midfield. Right now his importance to our team is the same as cesc.

We really are ****ed if he gets injured or ACN time...

 

[Captain]

Eduardo in VanPersie's position and Rosicky on the right?

No - I still want the likes of Rosicky as one of 2 CMs coming forward, other wise everything has to go thru' Cesc if it's to be effective. Just put Eduardo in the middle & RVP out on the right, & get AA to get beyond the defender before coming infield.

The moves break down when the ball goes wide or comes forward through the centre. Getting the ball there hasn't been a problem.

 

[Captain]

Taking Song off was a huge factor in why we lost the game even at 2-1 we still looked like(and had time) to come back. Song went off, we lost all shape and disipline in midfield. Right now his importance to our team is the same as cesc.

We really are f*d if he gets injured or ACN time...

The shape went because we moved to an extreme formation; there's not much to be extrapolated from that instance.

 

[Anzac]

Eduardo in VanPersie's position and Rosicky on the right?

No - I still want the likes of Rosicky as one of 2 CMs coming forward, other wise everything has to go thru' Cesc if it's to be effective. Just put Eduardo in the middle & RVP out on the right, & get AA to get beyond the defender before coming infield.

The moves break down when the ball goes wide or comes forward through the centre. Getting the ball there hasn't been a problem.

Disagree - one of the reasons for the breakdown is that we take too long to get it there = just see how more direct our play was with Rosicky AND Cesc as CMs - the defence wasn't set & the forward line was still in motion.

 

[Captain]

The receiving players are at fault time and again and that includes VanPersie; moving him to the right won't make him have to take one touch instead of three before he makes his mind up.

we attack with a diamond four largely; having three of those who seem unable to control and pass (almost) instantly is what is killing us.

 

[algunner]

Its sad to know that Rosicky was the one who created and scored the 2 goals we managed to convert while Diaby, Fab, Bentdner, RVP didn't do anything the first half. It shows you that Rosicky or Arshavin are the two most important players on the left flank while Nasri can do that but I think Wenger should just let it go with Diaby playing on the left granted that he didn't have players available for this match but Eduardo would have done so much better but again he can't rely on this injury loving players..Eduardo and Rosicky. I still think Mancity are flattering themselves with this win because at home they have been decent while away is the real test for them. Let see how they do against Man Utd and judge how serious are title contenders.

 

[Anzac]

The receiving players are at fault time and again and that includes VanPersie; moving him to the right won't make him have to take one touch instead of three before he makes his mind up.

we attack with a diamond four largely; having three of those who seem unable to control and pass (almost) instantly is what is killing us.

Problem #1 = square pegs;
problem #2 = lack of creativity going forward in midfield;
problem #3 = lack of creativity in the front 3;
problem #4 = lack of width in our patterns in attack - the wide men do not attack the corners = the diamond is very narrow & more like the Christmas Tree;
problem #5 = lack of movement ahead of the ball;
problem #6 = lack of urgency in transition.

RVP is not comfortable back to goal - hence the extra touches as he sizes up his options & why he comes deep. Too often our less creative players bring the ball forward to the attacking 3rd & then look to deliver directly to RVP's feet = he is forced to wait not only for the pass, but also as they bring the ball forward. RVP on the flanks gets him facing the goal & he can see what is happening ahead of him.

I hate our pattern in attack almost as much as I hate our square pegs player selections.

 

[tam1886]

Don't agree with you on problem 4. Why would we attack the corners? We'd get no benefit from getting to the line.

Agree on Van Persie out wide though for the points you mentioned. He'll also get less attention out there, and more space to work with than in the crowded central area. As he isn't the focal point, he'd also be a bit more free in where he can move around to. Wenger just isn't going to play him there though, which is a shame.

 

[Captain]

Well, he has been pretty **** almost everytime he has played wide for us.

 

[Anzac]

Don't agree with you on problem 4. Why would we attack the corners? We'd get no benefit from getting to the line.

Agree on Van Persie out wide though for the points you mentioned. He'll also get less attention out there, and more space to work with than in the crowded central area. As he isn't the focal point, he'd also be a bit more free in where he can move around to. Wenger just isn't going to play him there though, which is a shame.

Several factors re #4.
* when I say attacking the corners I do not mean quite literally, but I do meant that we stay wide & attack the line before we look to come inside. The important point being that we should look to get beyond the defender;
* the wide men come inside level with or before their area. This then gives less space in the middle for the CMs to move into or for any positive movement off the ball ahead of them - any movement will usually be away from goal as a result;
* coming infield keeps us narrow & allows the defensive line to compress & again congest the middle;
* by not attacking into the corners we are not making an attempt to turn the defender = the can track our build up infront of them at any & every stage;
* the FB option again does not look to promoted the ball behind the defensive line - we do so rarely & more often as a last resort if our options inside are covered off. Usually even the FB crosses are level with the area more often than not - we don't often cross from the byline, and we rarely cross from deep/early.

 

[kazu]

Denilson, Diaby and Bendtner should never be the same eleven again, one or maybe even two at a time is bearable but all three is unacceptable. We just lack the cuttting edge when we have these players on the field.

Yes you are damn right about this. Putting these 3 idiots together is as good as putting Cristiano Ronaldo, Kaka and Benzema together in the opposition team. Makes farking citeh looks like real..

 

[Klaus Daimler]

Well, he has been pretty s**t almost everytime he has played wide for us.

My main qualm with Robin wide is that it's been ages since I saw him move past a defender, the goal yesterday apart (and it looked like it happened mostly because the ball got some weird spin in the intercepting tackle). He's more likely to lose you the ball than he is to advance and play a pass. I never get that feeling when Arshavin has the ball. I don't even get it when Bendtner has it and is challenging. But as soon as Robin tries it he loses it.

 

[arsenalfc0719]

In the latter parts of the second half I feel we played exactly how we should be playing always, we passed the ball on the ground, short passes and good movement, and were direct and to the point and we created a number of chances in very very minutes.

The first thing that has to go is getting the ball out wide to Clichy and Sagna to cross it.

 

[Captain]

Several factors re #4.
* when I say attacking the corners I do not mean quite literally, but I do meant that we stay wide & attack the line before we look to come inside. The important point being that we should look to get beyond the defender;
* the wide men come inside level with or before their area. This then gives less space in the middle for the CMs to move into or for any positive movement off the ball ahead of them - any movement will usually be away from goal as a result;
* coming infield keeps us narrow & allows the defensive line to compress & again congest the middle;
* by not attacking into the corners we are not making an attempt to turn the defender = the can track our build up infront of them at any & every stage;
* the FB option again does not look to promoted the ball behind the defensive line - we do so rarely & more often as a last resort if our options inside are covered off. Usually even the FB crosses are level with the area more often than not - we don't often cross from the byline, and we rarely cross from deep/early.

It's near impossible to open the field in the way that you are describing without playing a left footed player on the left or overloading on that side.

Also it is quite outdated in a league in which the majority of teams play with two holding midfielders.

 

[Anzac]

Several factors re #4.
* when I say attacking the corners I do not mean quite literally, but I do meant that we stay wide & attack the line before we look to come inside. The important point being that we should look to get beyond the defender;
* the wide men come inside level with or before their area. This then gives less space in the middle for the CMs to move into or for any positive movement off the ball ahead of them - any movement will usually be away from goal as a result;
* coming infield keeps us narrow & allows the defensive line to compress & again congest the middle;
* by not attacking into the corners we are not making an attempt to turn the defender = the can track our build up infront of them at any & every stage;
* the FB option again does not look to promoted the ball behind the defensive line - we do so rarely & more often as a last resort if our options inside are covered off. Usually even the FB crosses are level with the area more often than not - we don't often cross from the byline, and we rarely cross from deep/early.

It's near impossible to open the field in the way that you are describing without playing a left footed player on the left or overloading on that side.

Also it is quite outdated in a league in which the majority of teams play with two holding midfielders.

I don't know if any of AA/Rosicky/Nasri are left footed, but each can beat the man with ball at feet. Nasri did it a number of times but would stop & hold up the ball as soon as he got to the area. The point is to beat the man & turn the defence, rather than keep the build up in front of them.

In regards to the 2 holding mids = if you turn the defence behind them on the flanks then you force them to cover = space in the middle for your CMs. As it stands we come infield towards them & congest the middle, THEN we look to go wide for the FBs to do f*ck all but put the ball up into the middle again.

 

[ricky1985]

Agree on Van Persie out wide though for the points you mentioned. He'll also get less attention out there, and more space to work with than in the crowded central area. As he isn't the focal point, he'd also be a bit more free in where he can move around to. Wenger just isn't going to play him there though, which is a shame.

Tam, you obviously saw the Scotland-Holland game, right? Well, that was the game that confirmed to me that Wenger is 100% right on Robin, and his best position, and it's Holland that has got it hopelessly wrong.

In that game Robin played right side of a 4-3-3, he did a lot of tracking back, almost playing deeper than the midfield 3 at times. He was completely ineffective in those areas of the pitch and never did anything more than win a cheap freekick or play a simple pass. Every single time he got the ball in the central areas in the final third he looked extremely dangerous. He played about 5 great through balls from those positions, and gave the Dutch something to hit upfront.

Unfortunately the time he spent as the centre forward was very limited because Dirk Kuyt played the role, with minimal switching. They looked a much better team for the 5 minute spells Robin spent through the middle, because he got the ball, turned and played an intelligent pass, his quick feet were also a little scary in those positions, because if he beat the defender he was in a very dangerous position, where out wide when he beat Whittaker a couple of times, and then found he had nowhere to go with his right foot.

I think the fact that he is 6'2", fairly quick, and allied to his natural abilties will mean, in time, he'll become a centre forward in the mould of Zlatan Ibrahimovic. That's how I see him developing anyway.